Is an untaxed car SORNED automatically?
Discussion
Probably a silly question but can’t find an exact answer. Car is having engine rebuilt and has been since February. Hindsight is wonderful etc but I never got round to SORNing it as the job sort of lingered on, but that’s now by the by. The mot is now up so I’ve had a letter saying the tax is also cancelled.
Basically, has this done my job for me? There is no engine in the car at current so there’s no chance of getting caught driving it and the guy building it knows it’s out of mot so needs to take it for one when it’s done, or do I still need to officially SORN it?
Basically, has this done my job for me? There is no engine in the car at current so there’s no chance of getting caught driving it and the guy building it knows it’s out of mot so needs to take it for one when it’s done, or do I still need to officially SORN it?
Amused2death said:
My understanding is there are two states of play...either the car is taxed and insured or SORN, there are no other options which keeps everything legal.
(Though happy to be corrected if I'm wrong)
Yep, very black and white these days, and DVLA ping out fines like confetti!(Though happy to be corrected if I'm wrong)
You can’t argue with one either, no matter how illogical. I tried!
martinbiz said:
popegregory said:
The mot is now up so I’ve had a letter saying the tax is also cancelled.
Not sure what you mean by this bit, the two are not connectedI was asking if therefore letting the tax expire just meant I had an untaxed car so couldn’t drive it. Which I can’t do anyway.
I’ll sorn it now. Just need to find something with the number you need on it.
popegregory said:
They are. You can’t tax a car that doesn’t have an MOT. MOT expires, it’s not taxed.
It can have an MOT and not be taxed. It can be taxed and not have an MOT. I sold my wife's old car last week. The RFL was cancelled immediately (and the refund turned up today). However it's MOT is valid until next August. i.e. It had an MOT but no Tax.
If the buyer taxes it for 12 months then on 1st september next year it will have tax but potentially no MOT.
HTH
V8covin said:
Amused2death said:
My understanding is there are two states of play...either the car is taxed and insured or SORN, there are no other options which keeps everything legal.
(Though happy to be corrected if I'm wrong)
What about insured and SORNed ?(Though happy to be corrected if I'm wrong)
You can't get it Taxed without it having an an MOT but it can still have Tax on it if the MOT runs out first.
This isn't rocket science
ETA going back to your original OP it looks like you've never told them it was SORNed. If you had you might have got a tax refund. Anyway you DO need to tell them it's SORNED. Otehrwise they will fine you.
This isn't rocket science
ETA going back to your original OP it looks like you've never told them it was SORNed. If you had you might have got a tax refund. Anyway you DO need to tell them it's SORNED. Otehrwise they will fine you.
popegregory said:
martinbiz said:
popegregory said:
The mot is now up so I’ve had a letter saying the tax is also cancelled.
Not sure what you mean by this bit, the two are not connectedI was asking if therefore letting the tax expire just meant I had an untaxed car so couldn’t drive it. Which I can’t do anyway.
I’ll sorn it now. Just need to find something with the number you need on it.
Lets say that your MOT runs out in May, and your tax runs out in October.
When your MOT runs out in May, the car remains taxed until October - The tax does not suddenly end in May with the MOT.
If you don't MOT your car after May, then as already stated, the car remains taxed until October, but after October, you won't be able to re-tax the car, because it does not have a current MOT.
If your car's MOT and tax have expired, and the car is SORNED, you can still drive it to and from an MOT test (providing it is insured), without it being taxed.
Amused2death said:
My understanding is there are two states of play...either the car is taxed and insured or SORN, there are no other options which keeps everything legal.
(Though happy to be corrected if I'm wrong)
I think there is one other (increasingly rare) possibility - where the vehicle has never been known to DVLA, perhaps because it's been in a barn since the 70s or maybe it's an old ag vehicle. But it will have to be insured before it can be SORNed, and tested before it can be taxed (if it's a testable vehicle). But that's all a long way from the situation under discussion here.(Though happy to be corrected if I'm wrong)
I think people are working on the basis of OP paying for the tax up front (which would mean it would run for 6 / 12 months respectively regardless of MOT expiry) when the post by OP above / quoted below shows it's actually been paid via a continuous Direct Debit, which requires a valid MOT.
If it was being paid monthly then as soon as the MOT expires, the next tax payment can't be taken as there's no valid MOT. If you were paying it 6 / 12 monthly, then the letter is reminding you that the car must have a valid MOT by the time the next payment is due otherwise the DD is cancelled.
In any case, if you're not renewing the MOT, you'll now need to declare the car SORN as stated previously above - it's not automatic.
popegregory said:
The letter you've received OP is fairly clear / self explanatory. You were paying for the tax, based on the date / text in the picture, via a continuous direct debit and due to the expiry date of the MOT being this month they're making it clear the Direct Debit will no longer renew from 31st October.If it was being paid monthly then as soon as the MOT expires, the next tax payment can't be taken as there's no valid MOT. If you were paying it 6 / 12 monthly, then the letter is reminding you that the car must have a valid MOT by the time the next payment is due otherwise the DD is cancelled.
In any case, if you're not renewing the MOT, you'll now need to declare the car SORN as stated previously above - it's not automatic.
Edited by AlexRS2782 on Saturday 23 October 17:42
popegregory said:
martinbiz said:
popegregory said:
They are. You can’t tax a car that doesn’t have an MOT. MOT expires, it’s not taxed.
Sorry mate that's rubbish, it is still taxed irrespective of when the MOT runs out
The problem is you are drip feeding information , now we can see you pay by DD
Edited by martinbiz on Saturday 23 October 18:00
martinbiz said:
[
The problem is you are drip feeding information , now we can see you pay by DD
I’ve not drip fed anything! I’ve asked if letting the tax run out on my car as I’m not able to drive it is an acceptable thing to do in the eyes of our friends in Swansea and had it confirmed that it isn’t The problem is you are drip feeding information , now we can see you pay by DD
Edited by martinbiz on Saturday 23 October 18:00
4rephill said:
You're misunderstanding how the MOT and tax work.
Lets say that your MOT runs out in May, and your tax runs out in October.
When your MOT runs out in May, the car remains taxed until October - The tax does not suddenly end in May with the MOT.
If you don't MOT your car after May, then as already stated, the car remains taxed until October, but after October, you won't be able to re-tax the car, because it does not have a current MOT.
If your car's MOT and tax have expired, and the car is SORNED, you can still drive it to and from an MOT test (providing it is insured), without it being taxed.
Not if paying by DD, many think it's just like buying something and spreading the payments, with car tax you are effectively re taxing it every month so you need all docs to be valid before each payment is madeLets say that your MOT runs out in May, and your tax runs out in October.
When your MOT runs out in May, the car remains taxed until October - The tax does not suddenly end in May with the MOT.
If you don't MOT your car after May, then as already stated, the car remains taxed until October, but after October, you won't be able to re-tax the car, because it does not have a current MOT.
If your car's MOT and tax have expired, and the car is SORNED, you can still drive it to and from an MOT test (providing it is insured), without it being taxed.
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