Two Boys Aged 16 Killed in Brentwood

[The Mad Monk]

Two boys killed. Eight people arrested.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-590341...

Do we think this might be gang related?

[DP14]

The Mad Monk said:

Do we think this might be gang related?

The ages of those arrested - 19, 19, 20, 20, 20, 21, 40, 49 - sound a bit odd for something gang related. Perhaps some sort of dispute between families.

[Terminator X]

Stabbed. We are way too soft on people carrying knifes imho + if you stab someone and they die the law should be changed to a life sentence.

TX.

[Terminator X]

MrBogSmith said:

Terminator X said:

Stabbed. We are way too soft on people carrying knifes imho + if you stab someone and they die the law should be changed to a life sentence.

TX.

That's what the sentence for murder / manslaughter is.

People don't seem to get sent down for that long though?

TX.

[Hol]

It will be interesting to see the follow up articles on the back story when this comes to court.

[FatboyKim]

Indeed, a determined attack involving a potential lethal weapon (gun, knife, acid etc.) should carry mandatory life sentence in my opinion, but alas it doesn't. The 'whole-life order' vs 'life sentence' debate is one to be on another day, but I think we can be in agreement that reported sentences of late do not seem to be commensurate with the crime committed.

Released half way through the sentence depending on good behaviour, even sooner for guilty pleas and full admission and acknowledgment throughout the investigation and court process of what they did. Then under the care of the massively underfunded and overworked (and outsourced) probation service which will probably involve an ankle tag for a few months, then a weekly (eventually monthly) phone call to ask them how they are doing, what have they been up to this week, how are things at home etc.

Edited by FatboyKim on Tuesday 26th October 15:49

[agtlaw]

Terminator X said:

MrBogSmith said:

Terminator X said:

Stabbed. We are way too soft on people carrying knifes imho + if you stab someone and they die the law should be changed to a life sentence.

TX.

That's what the sentence for murder / manslaughter is.

People don't seem to get sent down for that long though?

Murder = mandatory life sentence.

Explained here: https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/up...

[QBee]

Yes, but what is the average length of a life sentence?

[Terminator X]

agtlaw said:

Terminator X said:

MrBogSmith said:

Terminator X said:

Stabbed. We are way too soft on people carrying knifes imho + if you stab someone and they die the law should be changed to a life sentence.

TX.

That's what the sentence for murder / manslaughter is.

People don't seem to get sent down for that long though?

Murder = mandatory life sentence.

Explained here: https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/up...

Are knife killers getting put away for murder and life then in most cases?

TX.

[QBee]

I believe that a charge of murder has the onus of proof on the prosecution to show that the killer intended to kill the victim, and that it was pre-meditated.
That's why people who kill someone in a road accident aren't prosecuted for murder, even if they were speeding or drunk.

[agtlaw]

QBee said:

I believe that a charge of murder has the onus of proof on the prosecution to show that the killer intended to kill the victim,

Intention to cause serious bodily harm or death.

[agtlaw]

Terminator X said:

Are knife killers getting put away for murder and life then in most cases?

Adult offenders convicted of murder get life in all cases. It’s a mandatory sentence. Some get a whole life order. Others get life with a minimum term before they may apply for release - determined by the Parole Board.

[Charlie1986]

DP14 said:

The ages of those arrested - 19, 19, 20, 20, 20, 21, 40, 49 - sound a bit odd for something gang related. Perhaps some sort of dispute between families.

I’ll say it maybe a fight between travellers got out of hand. Happened in Kent chelsfield few months back

[The Mad Monk]

Charlie1986 said:

I’ll say it maybe a fight between travellers got out of hand. Happened in Kent chelsfield few months back

"A fight that got out of hand"! That is the understatement of the week.

Are you saying they weren't following the Marquess of Queensbury rules, then?

[Gary C]

MrBogSmith said:

s above.

Regarding your first point. Arbitrarily long sentences have little to no prohibitive effect on offending.

Well, if they are long enough, they wouldn't get another chance to reoffend

I read a book once that argued the number of people killed by Murderers after their release is greater than the number of innocent people that would have been killed if the death penalty still was used.

Not sure about that, but its interesting to think that there are always different ways of looking at data and coming to different conclusions.

[Gary C]

MrBogSmith said:

The conclusions within criminology are pretty unambiguous with what I was talking about.

Yes, keeping people in prison for their entire life would mean they don’t reoffend (outside prison).

But that’s talking about recidivism, which is different.

I was being slightly facetious

But sentences are not only about the offender.

[The Mad Monk]

Man charged with murder.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-590614...