Manning Withdrawing Track with Road Cover
Discussion
My renewal is imminent and the Invitation to Renew from Manning received today contained this announcement:
QUOTE
It is with deep disappointment we have to inform you that due to a further total loss claim involving a Porsche vehicle whilst on a Track Day at Anglesey underwriters have made the decision to withdraw all insurance cover whilst your vehicle is being driven on a Track Day from renewal date. As you can imagine this is a huge blow for our clients. However, we have found an underwriter who is prepared to write cover for standalone track days but this is still being “fine tuned” and we are hoping to be able to offer you this cover shortly, at an additional premium per event.
END QUOTE
Where to go to next?
QUOTE
It is with deep disappointment we have to inform you that due to a further total loss claim involving a Porsche vehicle whilst on a Track Day at Anglesey underwriters have made the decision to withdraw all insurance cover whilst your vehicle is being driven on a Track Day from renewal date. As you can imagine this is a huge blow for our clients. However, we have found an underwriter who is prepared to write cover for standalone track days but this is still being “fine tuned” and we are hoping to be able to offer you this cover shortly, at an additional premium per event.
END QUOTE
Where to go to next?
gtsralph said:
My renewal is imminent and the Invitation to Renew from Manning received today contained this announcement:
QUOTE
It is with deep disappointment we have to inform you that due to a further total loss claim involving a Porsche vehicle whilst on a Track Day at Anglesey underwriters have made the decision to withdraw all insurance cover whilst your vehicle is being driven on a Track Day from renewal date. As you can imagine this is a huge blow for our clients. However, we have found an underwriter who is prepared to write cover for standalone track days but this is still being “fine tuned” and we are hoping to be able to offer you this cover shortly, at an additional premium per event.
END QUOTE
Where to go to next?
Disappointing. QUOTE
It is with deep disappointment we have to inform you that due to a further total loss claim involving a Porsche vehicle whilst on a Track Day at Anglesey underwriters have made the decision to withdraw all insurance cover whilst your vehicle is being driven on a Track Day from renewal date. As you can imagine this is a huge blow for our clients. However, we have found an underwriter who is prepared to write cover for standalone track days but this is still being “fine tuned” and we are hoping to be able to offer you this cover shortly, at an additional premium per event.
END QUOTE
Where to go to next?
I renewed a couple months back with a reasonable quote considering some of the numbers other people where getting back so personally covered until late mid summer next year. But disappointing blow for others.
Hopefully someone else can step in and pick up the business.
I'm wondering if this will make people less keen to share who they're insured with!
An underwriter needs an awful lot of premiums to cover multiple total losses on £80k+ Porsche GT cars. I wonder how many Mannings clients there are who will now be looking elsewhere, and what their collective premium worth is.
An underwriter needs an awful lot of premiums to cover multiple total losses on £80k+ Porsche GT cars. I wonder how many Mannings clients there are who will now be looking elsewhere, and what their collective premium worth is.
I would ask the question a different way around ... what is happening to driving standards if trackdays insurance having become so expensive, is now being withdrawn ?
The example historically set by saloon car racing has been poor ... resulting in most race series running uninsured, but still not without significant losses ...
The example historically set by saloon car racing has been poor ... resulting in most race series running uninsured, but still not without significant losses ...
Boxsterjon said:
I have just switched from Manning to Classicline as a result of this change to their cover. Not only does Classicline include 5 track days and unlimited PCGB track days, the quote was also £200 less!
Likewise and as with Mannings, this covers UK track days with approved TDO’s. The issue for me now is that I’ve yet to properly investigate who might provide cover at Spa or Nurburgring.Manning used to provide cover by the day for an additional premium. As far as I can tell Morris don’t want to cover cars over £60k, according to their online quoter.
ChrisW. said:
I would ask the question a different way around ... what is happening to driving standards if trackdays insurance having become so expensive, is now being withdrawn ?
A fair comment Chris. Other track day regulars have spoken about some pretty erratic driving over the last couple of years.I can only think there's been a number of issues, all relating to COVID and the various lockdowns and restrictions, which come into play.
- Good drivers simply being 'out of practice'. Not enough hours in the seat in the preceding months took its toll.
- Drivers who would not normally do track days, but would, for example, perhaps prefer a European road trip, were turning to track days as the only way to exploit the performance of their cars.
- End of lockdown euphoria.
- f
k it, YOLO etc. etc. - The randomness of statistics - it may never happen again.
Digga said:
Likewise and as with Mannings, this covers UK track days with approved TDO’s. The issue for me now is that I’ve yet to properly investigate who might provide cover at Spa or Nurburgring.
Manning used to provide cover by the day for an additional premium. As far as I can tell Morris don’t want to cover cars over £60k, according to their online quoter.
I have just got a quote from ClassicLine.Manning used to provide cover by the day for an additional premium. As far as I can tell Morris don’t want to cover cars over £60k, according to their online quoter.
At £930 It is £30 less than Mannings no trackday cover:
(same GT3 £120k insured value, 5k miles pa, social/dom and business use, modified exhaust, 77 year old pilot...)
Any PCGB events + 6 free other UK ADTO/ARDS organised events pa
Extra UK events £56 each, Euro inc Spa, excl Nordschleife £224 each event
10% excess + normal excess on track cover
They need 48 hours (working days) notice to process and issue event cover note
The 30 day validity conveniently ends on my renewal date so have time to look at others + whatever Manning come up with.
When I was at Anglesey in September, the overall standard of driving (and cars) was pretty high but on a recent trip to Thruxton (earlier this month) I was surprised at how many "new track drivers" there were. I am by no means a track god (quite the opposite) and am respectful of new drivers on track but in previous years (with the in-person briefings) people seemed far more conscientious about checking their mirrors and moving out of the way for faster cars. With the virtual briefings (and a lack of marshalls to wave blue flags) there seem to be a lot of people holding others up for long lengths of time and/or doing weird things (moving to the wrong side and blocking you when you try to go past them). You only need a bit of "red mist" and an unpredictable driver and you'll end up with a crash.
ChrisW. said:
I would ask the question a different way around ... what is happening to driving standards if trackdays insurance having become so expensive, is now being withdrawn ?
The example historically set by saloon car racing has been poor ... resulting in most race series running uninsured, but still not without significant losses ...
Generalisations: I think the trackday insurance business model is flawed in the long term in that the cost of parts and repairs is very high and cars are increasingly written-off v repaired, the market must be thin (i.e. not enough clients to spread the risk), and together with declining trackday standards, very expensive cars are being driven more aggressively.The example historically set by saloon car racing has been poor ... resulting in most race series running uninsured, but still not without significant losses ...
gtsralph said:
Extra UK events £56 each, Euro inc Spa, excl Nordschleife £224 each event
That's a recent development and very good news. Thanks for that info.Pretty much same as Manning's premium. I assume that this is for cars up to £100k value, as with Mannings and that vehicles above that will be at a higher rate? IIRC Mannings jumped up to £500 / day.
..also there is a silly trend of expensive track cars with expensive carbon body parts driving up cost of claims. I still do not get Porsche moving each iteration of GT3/RS into more expensive panels (for a track car). Parts prices of brands like McLAren are very very high (coupled with high depreciation means write off is the normal way out)
On top of that, there are more track cars around. Just counting Porsches 996.1/.2/RS, 997.1/.2/RS, 991 .1/.2/RS, 981 Spyder/GT4, 718 Spyder/GT4, 992...etc etc - and with more cameras you really cannot stretch them unless on track.
Soon, eveyone will be driving the cheaper 996s again
On top of that, there are more track cars around. Just counting Porsches 996.1/.2/RS, 997.1/.2/RS, 991 .1/.2/RS, 981 Spyder/GT4, 718 Spyder/GT4, 992...etc etc - and with more cameras you really cannot stretch them unless on track.
Soon, eveyone will be driving the cheaper 996s again
LaSource said:
Parts prices of brands like McLAren are very very high (coupled with high depreciation means write off is the normal way out)
I am very grateful a GT3 splitter is 200 quid and just 10-15 minutes DIY to fit. My mates 650S has a carbon splitter which IIRC has a replacement cost of around £10k.LaSource said:
Soon, eveyone will be driving the cheaper 996s again
Joking aside, I do note you tend to drive the 997.2 RS far less frequently on track than your 996 GT3. I struggle not to look to the 997.2 RS as my 'logical next step' but as an out and out track car, perhaps that's folly?LaSource said:
..also there is a silly trend of expensive track cars with expensive carbon body parts driving up cost of claims. I still do not get Porsche moving each iteration of GT3/RS into more expensive panels (for a track car). Parts prices of brands like McLAren are very very high (coupled with high depreciation means write off is the normal way out)
On top of that, there are more track cars around. Just counting Porsches 996.1/.2/RS, 997.1/.2/RS, 991 .1/.2/RS, 981 Spyder/GT4, 718 Spyder/GT4, 992...etc etc - and with more cameras you really cannot stretch them unless on track.
Soon, eveyone will be driving the cheaper 996s again
This ^On top of that, there are more track cars around. Just counting Porsches 996.1/.2/RS, 997.1/.2/RS, 991 .1/.2/RS, 981 Spyder/GT4, 718 Spyder/GT4, 992...etc etc - and with more cameras you really cannot stretch them unless on track.
Soon, eveyone will be driving the cheaper 996s again
More cars = more cars on track = more accidents = more claims = higher cost (or no cover in this case)
If you think about it flinging a 100k plus car around a race circuit at full tilt with potentially zero proven ability and being fully underwritten for 1st party damage and expecting it as a nice added benefit to your regular road policy is a bit optimistic :-)
Granted it’s been the case but…
Just maths and stats if you’re an underwriter I imagine
gtsralph said:
Generalisations: I think the trackday insurance business model is flawed in the long term in that the cost of parts and repairs is very high and cars are increasingly written-off v repaired, the market must be thin (i.e. not enough clients to spread the risk), and together with declining trackday standards, very expensive cars are being driven more aggressively.
Agreed. And those expensive cars are very, very fast. Going back 15 years for example there were far fewer vehicles on track with acceleration and grip of a modern GT3 or McLaren. LennyM1984 said:
When I was at Anglesey in September, the overall standard of driving (and cars) was pretty high but on a recent trip to Thruxton (earlier this month) I was surprised at how many "new track drivers" there were. I am by no means a track god (quite the opposite) and am respectful of new drivers on track but in previous years (with the in-person briefings) people seemed far more conscientious about checking their mirrors and moving out of the way for faster cars. With the virtual briefings (and a lack of marshalls to wave blue flags) there seem to be a lot of people holding others up for long lengths of time and/or doing weird things (moving to the wrong side and blocking you when you try to go past them). You only need a bit of "red mist" and an unpredictable driver and you'll end up with a crash.
I was at a PCGB Anglesey track day in May and some of the driving was quite appalling and this is coming from a self confessed beginner. The main problem was the real novices either not listening to the briefing or a total lack of awareness(both self and spatial). Lucky I'm a pretty calm person otherwise the guys holding me up for two laps despite being permanently flashed with the dreaded blue light would have enticed me to do an erratic overtaking manoeuvre. They would swing wildly without warning from the inside of the track to the outside corner entry despite going at a snail's pace.It doesn't surprise me that track day accidents are these days more common resulting in Manning excluding track cover. All it takes is looking in the rear view mirror and indicate a faster driver to pass safely. Hardly rocket science.!
ttdan said:
LaSource said:
..also there is a silly trend of expensive track cars with expensive carbon body parts driving up cost of claims. I still do not get Porsche moving each iteration of GT3/RS into more expensive panels (for a track car). Parts prices of brands like McLAren are very very high (coupled with high depreciation means write off is the normal way out)
On top of that, there are more track cars around. Just counting Porsches 996.1/.2/RS, 997.1/.2/RS, 991 .1/.2/RS, 981 Spyder/GT4, 718 Spyder/GT4, 992...etc etc - and with more cameras you really cannot stretch them unless on track.
Soon, eveyone will be driving the cheaper 996s again
This ^On top of that, there are more track cars around. Just counting Porsches 996.1/.2/RS, 997.1/.2/RS, 991 .1/.2/RS, 981 Spyder/GT4, 718 Spyder/GT4, 992...etc etc - and with more cameras you really cannot stretch them unless on track.
Soon, eveyone will be driving the cheaper 996s again
More cars = more cars on track = more accidents = more claims = higher cost (or no cover in this case)
If you think about it flinging a 100k plus car around a race circuit at full tilt with potentially zero proven ability and being fully underwritten for 1st party damage and expecting it as a nice added benefit to your regular road policy is a bit optimistic :-)
Granted it’s been the case but…
Just maths and stats if you’re an underwriter I imagine
The car i take on track however rarely (due to busy work schedule and living 150 miles from pretty much all tracks) is my RS WP with lots and lots of very very expensive Carbon which costs upwards of £10k even for a scratch. I actually feel uncomfortable driving a car with an agreed value of £225K on track with cheap as chips souped up hatches on slicks.
Ideally I avoid cheap entry track days and prefer to pay £500 for a day which is hopefully too rich for boy racers in said hatches. Maybe the answer is for the responsibility for repairing a damaged car lies with the silly Billy which caused it, which in turn might lead to better driving.
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