Constructive dismissal. The numbers talk.
Discussion
Hello Everyone,
I really didn't want to start my PH posting this way, but alas, that's the way it will have to be...
It has become blindingly obvious that my position has become untenable at work. I am in a position where the person who bullied me to the point of me almost taking my own life. I am also registered disabled with mental health issues if that makes a difference.
Work are aware/intervened and failed and he is in charge of me and out to be vindictive..
Anyhow, I want out. The clarification I am looking for:
What is normal compromise for a company where you have PAYE that are a few years off maturing? I'd like to be able to keep them as they have skyrocketed. I know that may be a finance question, but i thought i'd ask.
Secondly, in terms of cash, what is considered the norm within mega-corps in terms of payout. I have been there almost two decades and the issues only started when this guy turned up and took a dislike to me.
Any help appreciated..
I really didn't want to start my PH posting this way, but alas, that's the way it will have to be...
It has become blindingly obvious that my position has become untenable at work. I am in a position where the person who bullied me to the point of me almost taking my own life. I am also registered disabled with mental health issues if that makes a difference.
Work are aware/intervened and failed and he is in charge of me and out to be vindictive..
Anyhow, I want out. The clarification I am looking for:
What is normal compromise for a company where you have PAYE that are a few years off maturing? I'd like to be able to keep them as they have skyrocketed. I know that may be a finance question, but i thought i'd ask.
Secondly, in terms of cash, what is considered the norm within mega-corps in terms of payout. I have been there almost two decades and the issues only started when this guy turned up and took a dislike to me.
Any help appreciated..
Welcome. And sorry to hear of your predicament. I'll see if I can point you right on a few things and apologies of any of this sounds abrupt but is better to be clear on these things.
Determining Constructive Dismissal is difficult to prove from a legal perspective. The rule of thumb is that the onus is upon you to prove that your employer deliberately created a hostile work environment or placed undue pressure on you to force you to resign. In your case, you need to demonstrate that the actions of your manager are deliberate, rather than he just being a knob. You say that you have raised the issue with senior management and their inaction on this may also go against them but again, you would need to prove intent on their part. Deliberate intent is very different (legally) from poor management.
What will help you is written records. Have you documented what has happened? Do you have correspondence from your doctor that refers to your work conditions? If you haven't then start. Keep a journal, print off emails, anything that will be assistance in you proving your case.
Two other things to consider is that the longer you leave resigning from the point that you considered the actions to be constructive dismissal, the more difficult it will be for you to seek any claim. And you mention this to be a 'mega-corp' so it's likely that they will happily throw lawyers at this until the cows come home (though equally possible they may pay you to put the whole matter to bed).
There is a statutory minimum redundancy which depends on your age and wages. A quick look on the government calculator for this shows that a 40 year old having worked at the company for 20 years on a weekly wage of £600 (before deductions) would be around £10k. You can add your own details here: https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-redundancy-pay
In some cases a court may apply additional compensation but this is not to be taken as a given.
But do consider that if that's what you want, the cleanest way is to simply hand in your resignation and leave.
My advice is to do all you can to resolve the situation amicably. If that means writing to the board, then do that. Even if you still leave, you will do so with a clearer mind which will not be the case facing months - even years of legal wrangling.
Good luck.
Determining Constructive Dismissal is difficult to prove from a legal perspective. The rule of thumb is that the onus is upon you to prove that your employer deliberately created a hostile work environment or placed undue pressure on you to force you to resign. In your case, you need to demonstrate that the actions of your manager are deliberate, rather than he just being a knob. You say that you have raised the issue with senior management and their inaction on this may also go against them but again, you would need to prove intent on their part. Deliberate intent is very different (legally) from poor management.
What will help you is written records. Have you documented what has happened? Do you have correspondence from your doctor that refers to your work conditions? If you haven't then start. Keep a journal, print off emails, anything that will be assistance in you proving your case.
Two other things to consider is that the longer you leave resigning from the point that you considered the actions to be constructive dismissal, the more difficult it will be for you to seek any claim. And you mention this to be a 'mega-corp' so it's likely that they will happily throw lawyers at this until the cows come home (though equally possible they may pay you to put the whole matter to bed).
Beer_N_cars said:
What is normal compromise for a company where you have PAYE that are a few years off maturing? I'd like to be able to keep them as they have skyrocketed. I know that may be a finance question, but i thought i'd ask.
I'm not sure what you mean here. PAYE is Pay As You Earn - your salary minus tax. Do you mean Stock Options? If so, you need to check what conditions were applied when you acquired or were given them. Beer_N_cars said:
Secondly, in terms of cash, what is considered the norm within mega-corps in terms of payout. I have been there almost two decades and the issues only started when this guy turned up and took a dislike to me.
When companies make deliberate attempts to get rid of someone using such means, it is usually to avoid them paying redundancy. Thus, when Constructive Dismissal is proven, the compensation is the enforcing of them paying that redundancy (plus any legal costs). An indication of redundancy pay should be included within your Contract of Employment. There is a statutory minimum redundancy which depends on your age and wages. A quick look on the government calculator for this shows that a 40 year old having worked at the company for 20 years on a weekly wage of £600 (before deductions) would be around £10k. You can add your own details here: https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-redundancy-pay
In some cases a court may apply additional compensation but this is not to be taken as a given.
Beer_N_cars said:
Anyhow, I want out.
I don't blame you. But do consider that if that's what you want, the cleanest way is to simply hand in your resignation and leave.
My advice is to do all you can to resolve the situation amicably. If that means writing to the board, then do that. Even if you still leave, you will do so with a clearer mind which will not be the case facing months - even years of legal wrangling.
Good luck.
Beer_N_cars said:
Hello Everyone,
I really didn't want to start my PH posting this way, but alas, that's the way it will have to be...
It has become blindingly obvious that my position has become untenable at work. I am in a position where the person who bullied me to the point of me almost taking my own life. I am also registered disabled with mental health issues if that makes a difference.
Work are aware/intervened and failed and he is in charge of me and out to be vindictive..
Anyhow, I want out. The clarification I am looking for:
What is normal compromise for a company where you have PAYE that are a few years off maturing? I'd like to be able to keep them as they have skyrocketed. I know that may be a finance question, but i thought i'd ask.
Secondly, in terms of cash, what is considered the norm within mega-corps in terms of payout. I have been there almost two decades and the issues only started when this guy turned up and took a dislike to me.
Any help appreciated..
Sorry to hear about your situation. It depends a lot on the type of firm and previous history. I work in finance and the world has certainly changed a lot over the last 10 years in terms of such agreements.I really didn't want to start my PH posting this way, but alas, that's the way it will have to be...
It has become blindingly obvious that my position has become untenable at work. I am in a position where the person who bullied me to the point of me almost taking my own life. I am also registered disabled with mental health issues if that makes a difference.
Work are aware/intervened and failed and he is in charge of me and out to be vindictive..
Anyhow, I want out. The clarification I am looking for:
What is normal compromise for a company where you have PAYE that are a few years off maturing? I'd like to be able to keep them as they have skyrocketed. I know that may be a finance question, but i thought i'd ask.
Secondly, in terms of cash, what is considered the norm within mega-corps in terms of payout. I have been there almost two decades and the issues only started when this guy turned up and took a dislike to me.
Any help appreciated..
If you are referring to options / deferred compensation, then being classed as a 'good leaver' and retaining those might be an easier option as that cost is already accrued.
On terms, this is where it varies - 4 weeks per year was the norm in the past, now it is down to 2 or 1 weeks per year with maximum caps too. You will just need to ask them for an illustration.
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