BMW Drivetrain Error/Shaking/Inconsistent Start-Ups

[SheikhMidas]

Hi all,

Wondering if you can help me get a long-standing issue resolved. I have a BMW 320i (2012) with 130k miles on the clock. Around 3 years ago the engine went and I had a refurbished one installed, and a new clutch put in also.

Since then, I've been getting consistent Drivetrain error messages intermittently. For the first few years these wouldn't bother me, and I'd just switch the ignition off and the error message would disappear.

However, recently I've got an engine light on. Furthermore, at my last service, the dealership told me that the clutch was on it's way out along with the radiator fan belt.

The issue has gotten worse and now alongside these drivetrain error messages, the car shakes and sometimes will take a few seconds longer to start. This is usually when I'm driving and stopping a lot.

I'm wondering - could this issue - the engine light, drivetrain error and car shakes be just the clutch? How much should I pay for a clutch replacement? Do i need to replace the flywheel too? Could this be related to the 'radiator fan belt'?

I know nothing about cars, so apologies if these questions seem stupid.

[d_a_n1979]

Wondering if it could be timing chain related?

But really first port of call is to get the car plugged in and codes read.

Any decent indy mechanic should have a good code reader or see if you can find someone local with the likes of Carly for BMW, INSTA, NCS etc

[E63eeeeee...]

Sounds a bit like the fuelling problems my 5 series had. Could be a fuel pump on its way out, or something else in that area.

Broadly, it may be time for a new car. In my experience BMWs are miserable and expensive when they start to go wrong.

[SheikhMidas]

d_a_n1979 said:

Wondering if it could be timing chain related?

But really first port of call is to get the car plugged in and codes read.

Any decent indy mechanic should have a good code reader or see if you can find someone local with the likes of Carly for BMW, INSTA, NCS etc

I thought so too - but when I had the engine refurbished they were supposed to look at this. I'm not sure if they did as they've proven to be quite dodgy with everything.

I've done some reading online and it looks like it could be an EGR valve. From what I read BMW had a massive recall for EGR valves. I'm thinking, perhaps the refurbished engine they put into my car didn't have this valve replaced at recall, and therefore I'm still suffering from this issue?

[SheikhMidas]

E63eeeeee... said:

Sounds a bit like the fuelling problems my 5 series had. Could be a fuel pump on its way out, or something else in that area.

Broadly, it may be time for a new car. In my experience BMWs are miserable and expensive when they start to go wrong.

I'd love to - but given the second hand car market at the moment I'm a little bit stuck!

[E63eeeeee...]

SheikhMidas said:

E63eeeeee... said:

Sounds a bit like the fuelling problems my 5 series had. Could be a fuel pump on its way out, or something else in that area.

Broadly, it may be time for a new car. In my experience BMWs are miserable and expensive when they start to go wrong.

I'd love to - but given the second hand car market at the moment I'm a little bit stuck!

Yeah, I get that. But you already know you need to spend a decent chunk on the clutch and fan belt, now you're looking at some diagnostic fees and then whatever it costs to actually solve the problem (which I would guess is not related to the clutch).

That said, you can get a decent BMW diagnostic setup for about 25 quid, if you're willing to put the time in. You just need an OBD2 cable and then you can get a simple phone app (I have Bimmertool for Android) or ideally get the free INPA download on a laptop. The app will let you see what the error codes are, INPA gives you what the dealers have, but is much less intuitive to use. Either way expect a fair amount of googling to translate whatever the tool tells you.

[AlfaManc]

SheikhMidas said:

Hi all,

Wondering if you can help me get a long-standing issue resolved. I have a BMW 320i (2012) with 130k miles on the clock. Around 3 years ago the engine went and I had a refurbished one installed, and a new clutch put in also.

Since then, I've been getting consistent Drivetrain error messages intermittently. For the first few years these wouldn't bother me, and I'd just switch the ignition off and the error message would disappear.

I have a 2010 528i with similar issues. I had the drivetrain issue intermittently last winter, but turning the car off/on resolved the shaking and loss of power, and the problem went away for many months until last week. Now, every time I start the car, the EML comes on and I get the drivetrain error message. Switching off/on generally causes the problem to go away, until the next time I use the car.

The N53 engine in my car is known to have fuel injector issues. Occasionally people have replaced coil packs and/or plugs to solve the issue, whereas others have had to change all of the fuel injectors. The car is booked in with a specialist on Friday so I'll report back with what they find.

In your case, I would check what engine you have and search for incidents of the drivetrain issue with your specific engine. If you have an OBD 2 code reader, plug it in and get a reading of the error codes. Failing that, get it booked in and looked over. There could be a number of causes so paying someone for diagnostics is a good step.

[SheikhMidas]

AlfaManc said:

I have a 2010 528i with similar issues. I had the drivetrain issue intermittently last winter, but turning the car off/on resolved the shaking and loss of power, and the problem went away for many months until last week. Now, every time I start the car, the EML comes on and I get the drivetrain error message. Switching off/on generally causes the problem to go away, until the next time I use the car.

The N53 engine in my car is known to have fuel injector issues. Occasionally people have replaced coil packs and/or plugs to solve the issue, whereas others have had to change all of the fuel injectors. The car is booked in with a specialist on Friday so I'll report back with what they find.

In your case, I would check what engine you have and search for incidents of the drivetrain issue with your specific engine. If you have an OBD 2 code reader, plug it in and get a reading of the error codes. Failing that, get it booked in and looked over. There could be a number of causes so paying someone for diagnostics is a good step.

Cheers mate. I've booked a diagnostic with ATS for £40. They've said they won't charge me unless they find something definitive and the guy on the phone sounded pretty genuine.

Also spoke to main dealer who confirmed that this vehicle hasn't been recalled for an EGR valve. Also new clutch and flywheel is about £3k through main dealer. Car is only worth £4k ish.

I'll update on here to let everyone know what codes I get.

[d_a_n1979]

SheikhMidas said:

AlfaManc said:

I have a 2010 528i with similar issues. I had the drivetrain issue intermittently last winter, but turning the car off/on resolved the shaking and loss of power, and the problem went away for many months until last week. Now, every time I start the car, the EML comes on and I get the drivetrain error message. Switching off/on generally causes the problem to go away, until the next time I use the car.

The N53 engine in my car is known to have fuel injector issues. Occasionally people have replaced coil packs and/or plugs to solve the issue, whereas others have had to change all of the fuel injectors. The car is booked in with a specialist on Friday so I'll report back with what they find.

In your case, I would check what engine you have and search for incidents of the drivetrain issue with your specific engine. If you have an OBD 2 code reader, plug it in and get a reading of the error codes. Failing that, get it booked in and looked over. There could be a number of causes so paying someone for diagnostics is a good step.

Cheers mate. I've booked a diagnostic with ATS for £40. They've said they won't charge me unless they find something definitive and the guy on the phone sounded pretty genuine.

Also spoke to main dealer who confirmed that this vehicle hasn't been recalled for an EGR valve. Also new clutch and flywheel is about £3k through main dealer. Car is only worth £4k ish.

I'll update on here to let everyone know what codes I get.

Stop taking it to a main dealer; find a decent local indy mechanic (not a chain such as ATS) and ask them to do the diagnostics and also check the car physically!

I can understand why the car may need a clutch; but why does it need a flywheel doing too?

And £3k... No; just no...!

[SheikhMidas]

Update:

Got the call back from diagnostics, and they reckon it's the alternator. These are the codes that came up:

Control Unit Output voltage Short Circuit
Rear Central Electric Activation Implausible
Electrical Power Steering

Also - I didn't realise this but the Stop-Start has stopped working, and this has been the case for a while. They said it's £1,500 to install a new alternator. Is this a reasonable price? Seems a bit expensive IMO.

Also - could this issue cause the car shaking and engine light? I thought it would have to be something mechanical. Bit stuck as to what to do going forward.

[d_a_n1979]

SheikhMidas said:

Update:

Got the call back from diagnostics, and they reckon it's the alternator. These are the codes that came up:

Control Unit Output voltage Short Circuit
Rear Central Electric Activation Implausible
Electrical Power Steering

Also - I didn't realise this but the Stop-Start has stopped working, and this has been the case for a while. They said it's £1,500 to install a new alternator. Is this a reasonable price? Seems a bit expensive IMO.

Also - could this issue cause the car shaking and engine light? I thought it would have to be something mechanical. Bit stuck as to what to do going forward.

Get a 2nd opinion PLEASE from an indy mechanic that has good diagnostics. Do NOT go with what you've been told until you get the 2nd opinion...

A poor battery can cause all sorts of weird issues and weird codes; it could be a case of it just needs a new, fresh battery fitted and coding to the car!

[E63eeeeee...]

d_a_n1979 said:

SheikhMidas said:

Update:

Got the call back from diagnostics, and they reckon it's the alternator. These are the codes that came up:

Control Unit Output voltage Short Circuit
Rear Central Electric Activation Implausible
Electrical Power Steering

Also - I didn't realise this but the Stop-Start has stopped working, and this has been the case for a while. They said it's £1,500 to install a new alternator. Is this a reasonable price? Seems a bit expensive IMO.

Also - could this issue cause the car shaking and engine light? I thought it would have to be something mechanical. Bit stuck as to what to do going forward.

Get a 2nd opinion PLEASE from an indy mechanic that has good diagnostics. Do NOT go with what you've been told until you get the 2nd opinion...

A poor battery can cause all sorts of weird issues and weird codes; it could be a case of it just needs a new, fresh battery fitted and coding to the car!

This is a really good point, if it's still on the original battery, 8/9 years old it could easily be on its way out and worth a try before you spend £1500 on an alternator.

[E63eeeeee...]

Battery testers that plug in to your cigarette lighter are about 3 quid on eBay.

[SheikhMidas]

For reference, these are the codes which came up.

The mechanic at ATS was brilliant. Didn't charge me for the diagnostic (as I chose to get no further repairs) and took his time to show me exactly what he thought was wrong. At the moment I think I need a new clutch, flywheel, alternator and auxilary fan belt. The list keeps growing.

[d_a_n1979]

SheikhMidas said:

For reference, these are the codes which came up.

The mechanic at ATS was brilliant. Didn't charge me for the diagnostic (as I chose to get no further repairs) and took his time to show me exactly what he thought was wrong. At the moment I think I need a new clutch, flywheel, alternator and auxilary fan belt. The list keeps growing.

I still stand by getting a 2nd opinion and asking someone to check the voltages of the battery (they need to be c12.4v engine off car locked and c14.4v with engine running). Any lower than that and you have battery, possibly alternator issues

Until then do nothing re those codes and suggested work

[AlfaManc]

An update on my 528i. I took it into a local BMW specialist and they logged the error codes and suggested replacing the spark plugs (three years old) and a coil pack on the misfiring cylinder. They were upfront that this would probably not fix the issue but was a logical first step prior to replacing injectors.
Made sense to me so I gave the go ahead. It has not fixed the problem but the mechanic thinks I may well get away with replacing a single fuel injector. He has some on back order with BMW but there is a delay and it may take a few more weeks to get them in. He suggested they are not available anywhere at the moment. I'll check back in a few weeks.
For now, stopping and restarting the car once or twice seems to work, but the problem is persistent and I will look to replace the injector asap. I'll update the thread with error codes etc once I get the full report next week.

[bmwmike]

AlfaManc said:

An update on my 528i. I took it into a local BMW specialist and they logged the error codes and suggested replacing the spark plugs (three years old) and a coil pack on the misfiring cylinder. They were upfront that this would probably not fix the issue but was a logical first step prior to replacing injectors.
Made sense to me so I gave the go ahead. It has not fixed the problem but the mechanic thinks I may well get away with replacing a single fuel injector. He has some on back order with BMW but there is a delay and it may take a few more weeks to get them in. He suggested they are not available anywhere at the moment. I'll check back in a few weeks.
For now, stopping and restarting the car once or twice seems to work, but the problem is persistent and I will look to replace the injector asap. I'll update the thread with error codes etc once I get the full report next week.

If yours is on original (index 9) injectors it is probably going to be a case of replacing 1 x 1 until they are all done and updated to current index 11, so perhaps bite the bullet and get them done. That said its 11 years old and a few on here have had success with used (ebay) index 11 injectors even as a stop gap. Not much harder to change than a spark plug.

[Mr Tidy]

SheikhMidas said:

Update:

Got the call back from diagnostics, and they reckon it's the alternator. These are the codes that came up:

Control Unit Output voltage Short Circuit
Rear Central Electric Activation Implausible
Electrical Power Steering

Also - I didn't realise this but the Stop-Start has stopped working, and this has been the case for a while. They said it's £1,500 to install a new alternator. Is this a reasonable price? Seems a bit expensive IMO.

Also - could this issue cause the car shaking and engine light? I thought it would have to be something mechanical. Bit stuck as to what to do going forward.

Like someone said forget main dealers and ATS/Kwikfit outfits and find a good BMW Independent - there is a list of them on here! £1,500 for a new alternator sounds greedy to me.

My local guy in Hampshire set up on his own 2 years ago after 15 years at Sytner and is brilliant.

If the car shudders on starting you really don't want stop/start working anyway - it isn't going to make things any better whatever the problem is!

I eventually learnt to just keep turning it off in my 123d. The coded AGM battery didn't last 5 years and the starter motor didn't manage 7 years (£600 at Sytner because I couldn't wait).

Yours may have stopped working because the battery is dying but possibly also because it is programmed to take into account various factors like ambient temperature and the elecrtrical draw, so in colder weather with heater fan running, HRW on and maybe heated seats it won't work.

Good luck getting it sorted.