Are Personality Test as useless as Astrology?
Discussion
At the pub at the weekend a discussion came up about peoples personality types and their results from various tests such as Myers-Briggs Type Indicator and other similar traits. I zoned out and had to bite my lip in case I just call the thing out as bull.
Any psychologists here? Can you group people into certain personality types or is it all just pseudoscience? I remember at university one of our lecturers got us to do a Myers-Briggs test or similar to assign us roles in a group project and I was highly sceptical then as well. I'd imagine that I could do the same test on consecutive days and give different answers to the same questions because either my mood is different or I interpret the question differently. I just don't believe that you can group 7 billion individuals on the plant into a handful of personality groups.
Are there any other personality tests that have some utility and pass the scientific method? Are the broader traits such as introvert/extrovert supported by science?
Any psychologists here? Can you group people into certain personality types or is it all just pseudoscience? I remember at university one of our lecturers got us to do a Myers-Briggs test or similar to assign us roles in a group project and I was highly sceptical then as well. I'd imagine that I could do the same test on consecutive days and give different answers to the same questions because either my mood is different or I interpret the question differently. I just don't believe that you can group 7 billion individuals on the plant into a handful of personality groups.
Are there any other personality tests that have some utility and pass the scientific method? Are the broader traits such as introvert/extrovert supported by science?
In the 90s the bank I worked for employed an outside agency to do a series of these on younger members of staff to identify who would be the managers and directors of the future. I clearly was useless and they not long after got rid of me in a round of redundancies.
Since then I have been moderately successful running 3 business of my own whilst the bank went steadily bankrupt.
I regard such things as expensive tosh.
Since then I have been moderately successful running 3 business of my own whilst the bank went steadily bankrupt.
I regard such things as expensive tosh.
Their usefulness is dependent on a few factors:
1. Why the test is being used. Seen plenty of uses in recruitment where the employer didn't know why they were using it or what they were looking for. Most jobs can be done by a range of personalities.
2. Quality of the test - ie, has it been properly designed and trialled.
3. Self awareness of the person undertaking it. Most of them rely on you being able to give accurate responses about your preferences and behaviour.
4. Quality of the conversation about the results.
I've used them a lot for personal development. Responses range from 'I knew that about myself already' to 'wow, I'd always suspected that, but it's really useful to have it explained that way.' Not really keen on personality tests in recruitment (see 1 above). Ability tests can be useful in that context when combined with other evidence (eg, someone with a 1st in an arts/humanities degree but struggles on the verbal reasoning test).
They're most useful imho when they enable team members to get an insight into one another and have a constructive conversation about their differences.
1. Why the test is being used. Seen plenty of uses in recruitment where the employer didn't know why they were using it or what they were looking for. Most jobs can be done by a range of personalities.
2. Quality of the test - ie, has it been properly designed and trialled.
3. Self awareness of the person undertaking it. Most of them rely on you being able to give accurate responses about your preferences and behaviour.
4. Quality of the conversation about the results.
I've used them a lot for personal development. Responses range from 'I knew that about myself already' to 'wow, I'd always suspected that, but it's really useful to have it explained that way.' Not really keen on personality tests in recruitment (see 1 above). Ability tests can be useful in that context when combined with other evidence (eg, someone with a 1st in an arts/humanities degree but struggles on the verbal reasoning test).
They're most useful imho when they enable team members to get an insight into one another and have a constructive conversation about their differences.
Edited by Slowboathome on Tuesday 9th November 11:26
Edited by Slowboathome on Tuesday 9th November 11:28
Dixy said:
In the 90s the bank I worked for employed an outside agency to do a series of these on younger members of staff to identify who would be the managers and directors of the future. I clearly was useless and they not long after got rid of me in a round of redundancies.
Since then I have been moderately successful running 3 business of my own whilst the bank went steadily bankrupt.
I regard such things as expensive tosh.
I remember having job interviews where part of the process is a personality style multiple choice test. The issue I have with these is that my responses would be different on every other day of the week and I try and second guess what they want me to say to improve my chances of getting the job. It just seems like an entirely pointless exercise to me. Since then I have been moderately successful running 3 business of my own whilst the bank went steadily bankrupt.
I regard such things as expensive tosh.
About 10 years ago I happened to have speech therapy at a local hospital.
The therapist (who happened to be an ex church minister) was a firm believer in THE ENNEAGRAM PERSONALITY TEST.
I have to say I was impressed by his summarisation of my personality. In fact he could ‘read’ my wife just from the brief meetings he had with her.
For anyone unfamiliar with this it’s the belief that we can be divided into 9 personality types through a series of questions about your reactions and thoughts to certain circumstances.
They are fairly accurate, especially the more in depth Myers Briggs assessment over the standard one which goes into more depth. What people have to remember is that they show a preference for your behaviour so its not absolute regardless of what type of test you are taking and there are many but they are all based on the same base psychology of Karl Jung. Far too many people say, for instance with Myers Briggs "oh I am an ENTP". No you are not, you show a psychological preference to the ENTP traits but that does not mean that you will act in that way in every given situation you are faced with.
This is why they should never be used for recruitment. A company trying to recruit certain "types" is only on a hiding to nothing, you may as well recruit people by the colour of their eyes. I have also seen people on dating apps announcing their type as if its some kind of badge and that they are looking for a certain other type because people have taken the original model and tried to match people by type etc. This is totally wrong and about as useful as the models you see where they have worked out the MBTI types of the Star Wars characters just for fun.
Where they are useful, and what they were intended for in the first place, is for self development and recognition of traits that you may have been blind to that you can work with to improve your performance of whatever the goal is that you are set.
Taking the example above of the ENTP preference in Myers Briggs. This is my "preference type" but each of the four letters is a scale. My results always come out on the J - P scale at the extreme end of P so you may also be a P but yours might be a borderline J and therefore we could both be ENTP but actually be quite different which is what the step 2 assessment is about and thats the one thats really worth investigating. The initial test is just a taster.
Non-psychologists also should be careful about the terminology used. So in MBTI the first letter is either a E or an I as its labelled introversion vs extroversion. This does not mean the same as people think when they think introvert and extrovert. If you come out as an INTJ for instance it doesn't mean you are an introvert and you cant deal with social situations etc which is the general perception. It means that you gain your energy from within yourself whereas an ENTJ would gain their energy from being around people. Subtle difference.
This is why they should never be used for recruitment. A company trying to recruit certain "types" is only on a hiding to nothing, you may as well recruit people by the colour of their eyes. I have also seen people on dating apps announcing their type as if its some kind of badge and that they are looking for a certain other type because people have taken the original model and tried to match people by type etc. This is totally wrong and about as useful as the models you see where they have worked out the MBTI types of the Star Wars characters just for fun.
Where they are useful, and what they were intended for in the first place, is for self development and recognition of traits that you may have been blind to that you can work with to improve your performance of whatever the goal is that you are set.
Taking the example above of the ENTP preference in Myers Briggs. This is my "preference type" but each of the four letters is a scale. My results always come out on the J - P scale at the extreme end of P so you may also be a P but yours might be a borderline J and therefore we could both be ENTP but actually be quite different which is what the step 2 assessment is about and thats the one thats really worth investigating. The initial test is just a taster.
Non-psychologists also should be careful about the terminology used. So in MBTI the first letter is either a E or an I as its labelled introversion vs extroversion. This does not mean the same as people think when they think introvert and extrovert. If you come out as an INTJ for instance it doesn't mean you are an introvert and you cant deal with social situations etc which is the general perception. It means that you gain your energy from within yourself whereas an ENTJ would gain their energy from being around people. Subtle difference.
"Just do your f
king job!" craigjm said:
I have also seen people on dating apps announcing their type as if its some kind of badge and that they are looking for a certain other type because people have taken the original model and tried to match people by type etc. This is totally wrong and about as useful as the models you see where they have worked out the MBTI types of the Star Wars characters just for fun.
Yep. Instant left swipe. Dixy said:
In the 90s the bank I worked for employed an outside agency to do a series of these on younger members of staff to identify who would be the managers and directors of the future. I clearly was useless and they not long after got rid of me in a round of redundancies.
Since then I have been moderately successful running 3 business of my own whilst the bank went steadily bankrupt.
I regard such things as expensive tosh.
Dixy, perhaps the personality tests were spot on, but the bank's managers and directors at the time were simply looking for people who matched their with their own traits which only succeeded when everything was rosy. Their personality type could have been tailored to continuous growth, but lacking what it took to ensure the bank survived when things got tough. Since then I have been moderately successful running 3 business of my own whilst the bank went steadily bankrupt.
I regard such things as expensive tosh.
Maybe you were more cautious, and knew when and how to adapt?
craigjm said:
They are fairly accurate, especially the more in depth Myers Briggs assessment over the standard one which goes into more depth. What people have to remember is that they show a preference for your behaviour so its not absolute regardless of what type of test you are taking and there are many but they are all based on the same base psychology of Karl Jung. Far too many people say, for instance with Myers Briggs "oh I am an ENTP". No you are not, you show a psychological preference to the ENTP traits but that does not mean that you will act in that way in every given situation you are faced with.
This is why they should never be used for recruitment. A company trying to recruit certain "types" is only on a hiding to nothing, you may as well recruit people by the colour of their eyes. I have also seen people on dating apps announcing their type as if its some kind of badge and that they are looking for a certain other type because people have taken the original model and tried to match people by type etc. This is totally wrong and about as useful as the models you see where they have worked out the MBTI types of the Star Wars characters just for fun.
Where they are useful, and what they were intended for in the first place, is for self development and recognition of traits that you may have been blind to that you can work with to improve your performance of whatever the goal is that you are set.
Taking the example above of the ENTP preference in Myers Briggs. This is my "preference type" but each of the four letters is a scale. My results always come out on the J - P scale at the extreme end of P so you may also be a P but yours might be a borderline J and therefore we could both be ENTP but actually be quite different which is what the step 2 assessment is about and thats the one thats really worth investigating. The initial test is just a taster.
Non-psychologists also should be careful about the terminology used. So in MBTI the first letter is either a E or an I as its labelled introversion vs extroversion. This does not mean the same as people think when they think introvert and extrovert. If you come out as an INTJ for instance it doesn't mean you are an introvert and you cant deal with social situations etc which is the general perception. It means that you gain your energy from within yourself whereas an ENTJ would gain their energy from being around people. Subtle difference.
Text book answer I concur !This is why they should never be used for recruitment. A company trying to recruit certain "types" is only on a hiding to nothing, you may as well recruit people by the colour of their eyes. I have also seen people on dating apps announcing their type as if its some kind of badge and that they are looking for a certain other type because people have taken the original model and tried to match people by type etc. This is totally wrong and about as useful as the models you see where they have worked out the MBTI types of the Star Wars characters just for fun.
Where they are useful, and what they were intended for in the first place, is for self development and recognition of traits that you may have been blind to that you can work with to improve your performance of whatever the goal is that you are set.
Taking the example above of the ENTP preference in Myers Briggs. This is my "preference type" but each of the four letters is a scale. My results always come out on the J - P scale at the extreme end of P so you may also be a P but yours might be a borderline J and therefore we could both be ENTP but actually be quite different which is what the step 2 assessment is about and thats the one thats really worth investigating. The initial test is just a taster.
Non-psychologists also should be careful about the terminology used. So in MBTI the first letter is either a E or an I as its labelled introversion vs extroversion. This does not mean the same as people think when they think introvert and extrovert. If you come out as an INTJ for instance it doesn't mean you are an introvert and you cant deal with social situations etc which is the general perception. It means that you gain your energy from within yourself whereas an ENTJ would gain their energy from being around people. Subtle difference.
I use Hogan and MBTI as coaching tools for people. I also like Gallup. In the end its about understanding yourself better and building a tool to interpret others behaviours.
I understand why some people don't value them.
craigjm said:
They are fairly accurate, especially the more in depth Myers Briggs assessment over the standard one which goes into more depth. What people have to remember is that they show a preference for your behaviour so its not absolute regardless of what type of test you are taking and there are many but they are all based on the same base psychology of Karl Jung. Far too many people say, for instance with Myers Briggs "oh I am an ENTP". No you are not, you show a psychological preference to the ENTP traits but that does not mean that you will act in that way in every given situation you are faced with.
This is why they should never be used for recruitment. A company trying to recruit certain "types" is only on a hiding to nothing, you may as well recruit people by the colour of their eyes. I have also seen people on dating apps announcing their type as if its some kind of badge and that they are looking for a certain other type because people have taken the original model and tried to match people by type etc. This is totally wrong and about as useful as the models you see where they have worked out the MBTI types of the Star Wars characters just for fun.
Where they are useful, and what they were intended for in the first place, is for self development and recognition of traits that you may have been blind to that you can work with to improve your performance of whatever the goal is that you are set.
Taking the example above of the ENTP preference in Myers Briggs. This is my "preference type" but each of the four letters is a scale. My results always come out on the J - P scale at the extreme end of P so you may also be a P but yours might be a borderline J and therefore we could both be ENTP but actually be quite different which is what the step 2 assessment is about and thats the one thats really worth investigating. The initial test is just a taster.
Non-psychologists also should be careful about the terminology used. So in MBTI the first letter is either a E or an I as its labelled introversion vs extroversion. This does not mean the same as people think when they think introvert and extrovert. If you come out as an INTJ for instance it doesn't mean you are an introvert and you cant deal with social situations etc which is the general perception. It means that you gain your energy from within yourself whereas an ENTJ would gain their energy from being around people. Subtle difference.
I certainly found MBTI was very good for personal development, especially around my Introvert/Extrovert score.This is why they should never be used for recruitment. A company trying to recruit certain "types" is only on a hiding to nothing, you may as well recruit people by the colour of their eyes. I have also seen people on dating apps announcing their type as if its some kind of badge and that they are looking for a certain other type because people have taken the original model and tried to match people by type etc. This is totally wrong and about as useful as the models you see where they have worked out the MBTI types of the Star Wars characters just for fun.
Where they are useful, and what they were intended for in the first place, is for self development and recognition of traits that you may have been blind to that you can work with to improve your performance of whatever the goal is that you are set.
Taking the example above of the ENTP preference in Myers Briggs. This is my "preference type" but each of the four letters is a scale. My results always come out on the J - P scale at the extreme end of P so you may also be a P but yours might be a borderline J and therefore we could both be ENTP but actually be quite different which is what the step 2 assessment is about and thats the one thats really worth investigating. The initial test is just a taster.
Non-psychologists also should be careful about the terminology used. So in MBTI the first letter is either a E or an I as its labelled introversion vs extroversion. This does not mean the same as people think when they think introvert and extrovert. If you come out as an INTJ for instance it doesn't mean you are an introvert and you cant deal with social situations etc which is the general perception. It means that you gain your energy from within yourself whereas an ENTJ would gain their energy from being around people. Subtle difference.
I've been reasonably successful in my various careers which normally involved going into management, which I then hated. I don't like having to deal with a team, and I don't like meetings. I like being good at my job and being left alone to get on with it.
Understanding the Introvert trait made me realise I needed to pursue a careers and roles that let me use that as a strength.
I'm not shy and retiring BTW, far from it! I can present well, host meetings, argue points etc it's just that being that person leaves me drained rather than enthused.
It also made me realise why I generally don't like big social gatherings especially when it's new people. I'd rather be at home, or out with a few close mates. I'm not antisocial, I just find them to be a massive chore!
Evoluzione said:
They're ok for easing you into the fact you may be a certain type of person. Once you've done the test you have to ask yourself does it matter? Do I need to look into this any further? If so act accordingly....
Indeed.There are loads of different tests/models/categorisation types.I'm at a point now where I'm thinking, "So what?" It's just about accepting who you are and who someone else is. However, it can be useful to be aware of someone's "type" whichever system you use so that you know how to interact with them*.
* - it can be useful to know someone's type so that you can manipulate them better.
After uni I was invited in to a hedge fund in London for an interview - I actually had no idea why they were interested in me, but went along. They asked for a psychometric test for me - I scored a bullseye. They literally had no idea what to do with me as I didn't fit in any of the quadrants.
98elise said:
craigjm said:
They are fairly accurate, especially the more in depth Myers Briggs assessment over the standard one which goes into more depth. What people have to remember is that they show a preference for your behaviour so its not absolute regardless of what type of test you are taking and there are many but they are all based on the same base psychology of Karl Jung. Far too many people say, for instance with Myers Briggs "oh I am an ENTP". No you are not, you show a psychological preference to the ENTP traits but that does not mean that you will act in that way in every given situation you are faced with.
This is why they should never be used for recruitment. A company trying to recruit certain "types" is only on a hiding to nothing, you may as well recruit people by the colour of their eyes. I have also seen people on dating apps announcing their type as if its some kind of badge and that they are looking for a certain other type because people have taken the original model and tried to match people by type etc. This is totally wrong and about as useful as the models you see where they have worked out the MBTI types of the Star Wars characters just for fun.
Where they are useful, and what they were intended for in the first place, is for self development and recognition of traits that you may have been blind to that you can work with to improve your performance of whatever the goal is that you are set.
Taking the example above of the ENTP preference in Myers Briggs. This is my "preference type" but each of the four letters is a scale. My results always come out on the J - P scale at the extreme end of P so you may also be a P but yours might be a borderline J and therefore we could both be ENTP but actually be quite different which is what the step 2 assessment is about and thats the one thats really worth investigating. The initial test is just a taster.
Non-psychologists also should be careful about the terminology used. So in MBTI the first letter is either a E or an I as its labelled introversion vs extroversion. This does not mean the same as people think when they think introvert and extrovert. If you come out as an INTJ for instance it doesn't mean you are an introvert and you cant deal with social situations etc which is the general perception. It means that you gain your energy from within yourself whereas an ENTJ would gain their energy from being around people. Subtle difference.
I certainly found MBTI was very good for personal development, especially around my Introvert/Extrovert score.This is why they should never be used for recruitment. A company trying to recruit certain "types" is only on a hiding to nothing, you may as well recruit people by the colour of their eyes. I have also seen people on dating apps announcing their type as if its some kind of badge and that they are looking for a certain other type because people have taken the original model and tried to match people by type etc. This is totally wrong and about as useful as the models you see where they have worked out the MBTI types of the Star Wars characters just for fun.
Where they are useful, and what they were intended for in the first place, is for self development and recognition of traits that you may have been blind to that you can work with to improve your performance of whatever the goal is that you are set.
Taking the example above of the ENTP preference in Myers Briggs. This is my "preference type" but each of the four letters is a scale. My results always come out on the J - P scale at the extreme end of P so you may also be a P but yours might be a borderline J and therefore we could both be ENTP but actually be quite different which is what the step 2 assessment is about and thats the one thats really worth investigating. The initial test is just a taster.
Non-psychologists also should be careful about the terminology used. So in MBTI the first letter is either a E or an I as its labelled introversion vs extroversion. This does not mean the same as people think when they think introvert and extrovert. If you come out as an INTJ for instance it doesn't mean you are an introvert and you cant deal with social situations etc which is the general perception. It means that you gain your energy from within yourself whereas an ENTJ would gain their energy from being around people. Subtle difference.
I've been reasonably successful in my various careers which normally involved going into management, which I then hated. I don't like having to deal with a team, and I don't like meetings. I like being good at my job and being left alone to get on with it.
Understanding the Introvert trait made me realise I needed to pursue a careers and roles that let me use that as a strength.
I'm not shy and retiring BTW, far from it! I can present well, host meetings, argue points etc it's just that being that person leaves me drained rather than enthused.
It also made me realise why I generally don't like big social gatherings especially when it's new people. I'd rather be at home, or out with a few close mates. I'm not antisocial, I just find them to be a massive chore!
I have done MBTI a few times over the years and my profile type has changed as I have gotten older and more experienced in the sector (currently ENTJ for anyone wishing to judge/know)
I think its quite useful to know what sort of mix of people you have on any given programme as multiple Extroverts can be as equally problematic as multiple Introverts etc...
I think its quite useful to know what sort of mix of people you have on any given programme as multiple Extroverts can be as equally problematic as multiple Introverts etc...
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