EvoHome : Logical sequence of events ? Any installers ?
Discussion
Hi all
Had Evohome fitted last week and still getting used to it. Impressed overall with the system but have a question.
Set-up : Evohome with 9 smart TRV's fitted to main radiators. This leaves 6 radiators with std TRV's (Kitchen, Utility, Hall and 3 toilet/bathrooms). New pump and 3 way valve fitted along with a new boiler at installation. It's vented system.
So far, so good.
However, today has been warm so all radiator TRV's are "off" as in sending a 0% signal to the control box (confirmed and checked).
At lunch time, we have the hot water come on for an hour. However, we noted that the 6 radiators without the smart TRV's all get hot. We thought that in this scenario the system would switch to "hot water only" so we don't get any heating delivered within the house.....it seems the 3 way valve still open so that when the hot water is called for, the pump is pumping through the radiators aswell.
How does the system set the 3 way valve to "water" only ? You can turn all the TRV's off with a quick switch which I assume does this (not checked), but you don't seem to be able to set the radiator to "off", only a set temperature on the schedule. Does this mean effectively the radiator loop is always open ?? Just wanted to understand the logic that should happen before we go back to installers and embarrass ourselves :-). We really want the ability to only heat water otherwise, what happens in the summer when effectively the radiators never need heat ?
Had Evohome fitted last week and still getting used to it. Impressed overall with the system but have a question.
Set-up : Evohome with 9 smart TRV's fitted to main radiators. This leaves 6 radiators with std TRV's (Kitchen, Utility, Hall and 3 toilet/bathrooms). New pump and 3 way valve fitted along with a new boiler at installation. It's vented system.
So far, so good.
However, today has been warm so all radiator TRV's are "off" as in sending a 0% signal to the control box (confirmed and checked).
At lunch time, we have the hot water come on for an hour. However, we noted that the 6 radiators without the smart TRV's all get hot. We thought that in this scenario the system would switch to "hot water only" so we don't get any heating delivered within the house.....it seems the 3 way valve still open so that when the hot water is called for, the pump is pumping through the radiators aswell.
How does the system set the 3 way valve to "water" only ? You can turn all the TRV's off with a quick switch which I assume does this (not checked), but you don't seem to be able to set the radiator to "off", only a set temperature on the schedule. Does this mean effectively the radiator loop is always open ?? Just wanted to understand the logic that should happen before we go back to installers and embarrass ourselves :-). We really want the ability to only heat water otherwise, what happens in the summer when effectively the radiators never need heat ?
3 way valve fitted wrongly
OR
3 way valve wired wrongly
OR
3 way valve set by plumber to manual override and not moved back (common post plumber visits!)
3 way valves are not well regarded for their reliability unfortunately.
ETA - I'm asumming in Evohome you can set periods when heating is on or hot water is on? If heating is always 'ON' and controlled solely by TRVs then your setup won't really work.....as you are finding.
OR
3 way valve wired wrongly
OR
3 way valve set by plumber to manual override and not moved back (common post plumber visits!)
3 way valves are not well regarded for their reliability unfortunately.
ETA - I'm asumming in Evohome you can set periods when heating is on or hot water is on? If heating is always 'ON' and controlled solely by TRVs then your setup won't really work.....as you are finding.
Yes we have the hot water controller. There are 2 controllers. Just puzzled by the behaviour as it’s a brand new 3 way so wonder if it is wired up incorrectly or if something else is going on. I just checked the error log on the home unit and we seem to be getting a few errors which curiously happen at the same time each day :
Labelled as
Restore @ 12.42 COMMS Fault, Actuator
Fault @ 15.52 COMMS Fault, Actuator
Happened same time everyday for 3 days. Puzzled !
Labelled as
Restore @ 12.42 COMMS Fault, Actuator
Fault @ 15.52 COMMS Fault, Actuator
Happened same time everyday for 3 days. Puzzled !
Steve Campbell said:
Yes we have the hot water controller. There are 2 controllers. Just puzzled by the behaviour as it’s a brand new 3 way so wonder if it is wired up incorrectly or if something else is going on. I just checked the error log on the home unit and we seem to be getting a few errors which curiously happen at the same time each day :
Labelled as
Restore @ 12.42 COMMS Fault, Actuator
Fault @ 15.52 COMMS Fault, Actuator
Happened same time everyday for 3 days. Puzzled !
I think there is a comms check function...Labelled as
Restore @ 12.42 COMMS Fault, Actuator
Fault @ 15.52 COMMS Fault, Actuator
Happened same time everyday for 3 days. Puzzled !
Press your finger on 'settings' at the bottom of the screen for 10 seconds and you will get the config menu.
Do you have two BDR91 relay boxes, one for HW one for CH? Those relays (and indeed all EvoHome components) are crazy flakey/sensitive. The comms faults can arise when they are too close to metal, or too close to other relays, or have things inbetween which interfere. What is the setup you have (ie between the evohome controller and the valve)?
2 * BDR91's as you suggest, helpfully Sharpie marked as to which one does heating and which the hot water :-)
Given it's in the airing cupboard it's hard to see how they could be "far away" from metalwork, but they do appear to be at least >30cm apart which I believe is on the installation instructions, but there are various pipes around as there always is in the airing cupboard !
I'm wondering whether the actual control box is a bit far away from the airing cupboard where the BDR91's are (have it in the lounge at the moment as we are playing with the system but it probably won't be where it lives long term). Think we might need them back for a check.
However, I just checked the system is working as it was all off and it does kick in if you change a single radiator….here’s the error messages below curiously consistent. I’m wondering now if the controller is talking to the TRV’s and to the BDR91’s, they are talking to the boiler but maybe not to the 3 way valve ?
Given it's in the airing cupboard it's hard to see how they could be "far away" from metalwork, but they do appear to be at least >30cm apart which I believe is on the installation instructions, but there are various pipes around as there always is in the airing cupboard !
I'm wondering whether the actual control box is a bit far away from the airing cupboard where the BDR91's are (have it in the lounge at the moment as we are playing with the system but it probably won't be where it lives long term). Think we might need them back for a check.
However, I just checked the system is working as it was all off and it does kick in if you change a single radiator….here’s the error messages below curiously consistent. I’m wondering now if the controller is talking to the TRV’s and to the BDR91’s, they are talking to the boiler but maybe not to the 3 way valve ?
Edited by Steve Campbell on Wednesday 10th November 14:15
Edited by Steve Campbell on Wednesday 10th November 14:20
Edited by Steve Campbell on Wednesday 10th November 14:22
Going back to basics... what happens if you press the button on the BRD91 which controls the hot water?
It should turn on, which in turn should turn on the boiler... you should be able to feel heat in the water branch on the three port valve (and not in the heating branch)..
Might get a bit more complex if the boiler is controlled by OpenTherm or another BRD91 though.
It should turn on, which in turn should turn on the boiler... you should be able to feel heat in the water branch on the three port valve (and not in the heating branch)..
Might get a bit more complex if the boiler is controlled by OpenTherm or another BRD91 though.
So, our misunderstanding of system for original issue with radiators / hot water. We had 2 badly fitted TRVs which have now been corrected….system working correctly…but the coms fault still persists
…..starting to get me annoyed so any help from installers as our installers seem to be stumped……and Evohome technical helpline solution is now….if the system is working ok, ignore it ! I have no idea what the error actually means or what circumstances would cause it to fault once per day and the technical team haven’t explained anything adequately.
Original, technical at Honeywell suggested that the relays and WiFi tank thermostat were too close together / close to the tank (despite being fitted as per installation instructions). Even though this doesn’t explain why a coms error would happen once per day at the same time, we humoured them and our fitters have come and moved them, problem still persists. No one seems to be even able to describe why the system would fault once per day at the same time.
Any clues anyone ? We think the system is working now but still errors once per day !
…..starting to get me annoyed so any help from installers as our installers seem to be stumped……and Evohome technical helpline solution is now….if the system is working ok, ignore it ! I have no idea what the error actually means or what circumstances would cause it to fault once per day and the technical team haven’t explained anything adequately.
Original, technical at Honeywell suggested that the relays and WiFi tank thermostat were too close together / close to the tank (despite being fitted as per installation instructions). Even though this doesn’t explain why a coms error would happen once per day at the same time, we humoured them and our fitters have come and moved them, problem still persists. No one seems to be even able to describe why the system would fault once per day at the same time.
Any clues anyone ? We think the system is working now but still errors once per day !
Edited by Steve Campbell on Friday 26th November 17:29
Just replying to this thread to close it out as we have finally resolved the issue (well at least for 48 hours).
Honeywell technical support were rubbish, telling us consistently it was likely a problem with our wifi, getting us to call the installer back in to move all the relays & sensor (they must be to close to metal or each other) .... at one point to "just ignore the fault if the system is working OK"....and even telling us that they had never seen this issue, despite us finding evidence it had been seen 5 years ago on an "Automatedhome" thread (which we have now pointed out to them and suggested they update their technical files / FAQ's / Procedures).
Anyway, for anyone for the future with Honeywell Evohome, if you get consistent comms fault at the same time each day along with a restore around 21hrs later, it is highly likely to be a duplicate binding of one of your relays. The resolution for us was :
1) Unbind Hot Water Sensor, Hot Water Relay, Heating Relay
2) In Controller System Config > System Devices : set Appliance control to None and Hot Water to Disabled (ie unbind everything from the controller end aswell)
3) Remove & then replace batteries on Controller (thereby forcing a reboot)
4) Leave the controller for 10 mins to stabilise and find all your other TRV's etc
5) Rebind the Hot Water Sensor, HW Relay, Heating Relay in that order
The system is actually great though ...and our problem root cause was our installer inadvertently doing the duplicate binding !!
Honeywell technical support were rubbish, telling us consistently it was likely a problem with our wifi, getting us to call the installer back in to move all the relays & sensor (they must be to close to metal or each other) .... at one point to "just ignore the fault if the system is working OK"....and even telling us that they had never seen this issue, despite us finding evidence it had been seen 5 years ago on an "Automatedhome" thread (which we have now pointed out to them and suggested they update their technical files / FAQ's / Procedures).
Anyway, for anyone for the future with Honeywell Evohome, if you get consistent comms fault at the same time each day along with a restore around 21hrs later, it is highly likely to be a duplicate binding of one of your relays. The resolution for us was :
1) Unbind Hot Water Sensor, Hot Water Relay, Heating Relay
2) In Controller System Config > System Devices : set Appliance control to None and Hot Water to Disabled (ie unbind everything from the controller end aswell)
3) Remove & then replace batteries on Controller (thereby forcing a reboot)
4) Leave the controller for 10 mins to stabilise and find all your other TRV's etc
5) Rebind the Hot Water Sensor, HW Relay, Heating Relay in that order
The system is actually great though ...and our problem root cause was our installer inadvertently doing the duplicate binding !!
Well, 5 years on and we’ve been happy with the system. Faultless really…until now.
We seem to be getting intermittent hot water sensor not bound errors, every 2-4 days. We then need to rebind it. This has been going on for a month :-(….just been a bit busy to get it sorted…but now it’s getting annoying. Also, sometimes it doesn’t seem to bind normally (holding the button for 5 seconds does not result in the green/red flashing light).
We thought it might be a battery problem but it isn’t. Anyone else seen this ? Maybe the hot water sensor CS92 is failing and we need a new one, but at £120 it would be good if anyone else has seen this and can confirm or point us in the right direction.
We seem to be getting intermittent hot water sensor not bound errors, every 2-4 days. We then need to rebind it. This has been going on for a month :-(….just been a bit busy to get it sorted…but now it’s getting annoying. Also, sometimes it doesn’t seem to bind normally (holding the button for 5 seconds does not result in the green/red flashing light).
We thought it might be a battery problem but it isn’t. Anyone else seen this ? Maybe the hot water sensor CS92 is failing and we need a new one, but at £120 it would be good if anyone else has seen this and can confirm or point us in the right direction.
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