Fit Note

[vxr8mate]

Hi All

We have received a fit note that states a person is not fit for work because of Bereavement and thigh pain.

The person concerned did lose their father recently and took time off for the funeral, but bereavement on a sick note!

it's worth noting the person made no reference to any thigh pain.

Can a business refuse to pay SSP if we feel the doctor is just handing out two weeks SSP for the above?

[HappySilver]

Of course you can if you want a whole heap of trouble. You may want to share the medical qualifications you have that make you able to dismiss the opinion of a medical professional who has studied and, likely, practiced for many years to be able to give a medical recommendation that the person qualifies for SSP.

If you are that bothered get an independent occupational health assessment of the individual by someone qualified to make that judgement. However, that will probably cost you as much as a couple of weeks SSP.

[sherman]

I would say pay the 2 weeks ssp or you will get another note where they will go off long term with stress or anxiety and then if your lucky they wont quit.

Berevement can affect people differently. 2 weeks out can give them the time to mentally sort themselves out because of the stress of the situation.
Do you really think they will be a productive employee for the next few weeks anyway?

[vxr8mate]

[quote=HappySilver]Of course you can if you want a whole heap of trouble. You may want to share the medical qualifications you have that make you able to dismiss the opinion of a medical professional who has studied and, likely, practiced for many years to be able to give a medical recommendation that the person qualifies for SSP.

'Bereavement doesn't as an illness' lifted directly from the Marie Curie website.

I can not understand why the Doc didnt put 'stress' or something similar if that's the issue, rather than just use his medical qualifications that he has to put something on a fit note that doesnt qualify as an illness!

[sherman]

vxr8mate said:

HappySilver said:

Of course you can if you want a whole heap of trouble. You may want to share the medical qualifications you have that make you able to dismiss the opinion of a medical professional who has studied and, likely, practiced for many years to be able to give a medical recommendation that the person qualifies for SSP.

'Bereavement doesn't as an illness' lifted directly from the Marie Curie website.

I can not understand why the Doc didnt put 'stress' or something similar if that's the issue, rather than just use his medical qualifications that he has to put something on a fit note that doesnt qualify as an illness!

Bereavement is a type of stress.
If the gp had just put stress would you have worried that you are putting to much work load on your employee?
You are coming across as a delightful caring boss in this thread

[HappySilver]

vxr8mate said:

HappySilver said:

Of course you can if you want a whole heap of trouble. You may want to share the medical qualifications you have that make you able to dismiss the opinion of a medical professional who has studied and, likely, practiced for many years to be able to give a medical recommendation that the person qualifies for SSP.

'Bereavement doesn't as an illness' lifted directly from the Marie Curie website.

I can not understand why the Doc didnt put 'stress' or something similar if that's the issue, rather than just use his medical qualifications that he has to put something on a fit note that doesnt qualify as an illness!

In your opinion. The doctor probably sees bereavement of a cause of stress, s/he doesn’t have to justify that to you as the employer on the certificate.
If you read the fit note the medically qualified person has ticked a box to say they are not fit for work. You can challenge that, but if you are not medically qualified I suspect you will be disappointed. As I point out above, you can pay for an occupational health assessment, this will be another qualified person reviewing the facts of the case. Probably a completely over-the-top and costly exercise for a two week sick note. Unless, you have a broader issue with the employee? If that is the case I suggest you manage it more holistically rather than simply going into battle with a qualified doctor on whether they are fit to work or not for the next two weeks.

[edthefed]

A few years ago en route to a GPs appointment i received a call telling me my mum had died
I was a few mins late for the appointment and when i explained why the GP signed me off for two weeks "bereavement"

[Darlo 1]

I was signed off for 3 and a half months when we were told that my mum was dying, as well as holding down a full time job i was also my parents in house carer, i lost my mum within two years of my dad dying, it hit me extremly hard, i was fortunate to have a very compassionate manager at the time.

[QuickQuack]

A registered medical practitioner (our legally protected title) is entitled to put bereavement on a fit note. If you don't like it, go to medical school, do the foundation years to get your full registration with the GMC, and then you can legally sign a fit note, although without having completed a specialist training programme and without a supervising qualified GP or consultant, you'd be on pretty shaky ground. If you can't do those, then tough luck. You just have to accept the opinion of the qualified professional.

PS No, you do not have the right to overrule the opinion of the doctor and withhold the SSP.

Edited by QuickQuack on Friday 12th November 13:22

[xx99xx]

I recently had similar with someone in my team. She was signed off for 2 weeks due to bereavement (stress and wellbeing impacts) having already had a week off self certified.

She wanted to come back to work a week early as she was feeling better but I had to tell her she couldn't as I'd be going against medical advice, which I'm not prepared to do.

[Jasandjules]

vxr8mate said:

Can a business refuse to pay SSP if we feel the doctor is just handing out two weeks SSP for the above?

Of course you can. Whether or not it will result in bad things for the business however is another question.

[FazerBoy]

I feel lucky I don’t work for a boss like this…

[gobshite]

Hi pal

Gp notes can be frustrating at times.

Honestly do not mess around with with-holding pay, I would treat anything like this with kid gloves. I would always recommend topping up earnings if the business can afford them and supplement the nhs care with in house occupational health and counciling if you have an employee health assistance program.

If you want Impartial practical advice please feel free to drop me your contact details, despite the Pistonheads profile name, I have managed the Ocupational health support for the last 12 years and have a good understanding of both good and bad case management.

Being a good employer will always promote the business, and if further down the line thing take a turn for the worst you can demonstrate that you have acted in a moral manner.

if the fit note was worded differently it would not be an issue.

I would be careful when they return to work, complete a detailed return to work interview

Are they returning to soon due to financial reasons? are they undertakings role that will affect the business or other employees if they are unable to focus on the tasks they are compleating, you have a duty of care not only to the employees returning to work but also those That can be affected by an act or omission on there behalf.

I would definitely approach this with the mind set that if it was your wife, mum or dad in this situation how would you want a business to support them

Again, happy to help if you wish to discuss of line.

Kind regards

Angelo

Edited by gobste on Saturday 13th November 22:52

[SteveC72]

Jasandjules said:

vxr8mate said:

Can a business refuse to pay SSP if we feel the doctor is just handing out two weeks SSP for the above?

Of course you can. Whether or not it will result in bad things for the business however is another question.

Our old HR solicitor used to respond to “Can we refuse……” questions with “You can do absolutely anything you want, it’s just a question of how much it’ll cost”