RIP FW De Klerk
Discussion
Yeah. He got a mixed press but along with Gorbachev remains one of the most influential people of my late 1980s university days up in Newcastle. This at a time when the Soviet Union was collapsing, the Berlin Wall was being flattened and China was taking a novel route to discussion with its students in Tiananmen Square.
RIP.
RIP.
TonyRPH said:
FW De Klerk and Pik Botha (foreign minister at the time I think?) were instrumental in the dismantling of apartheid.
It must have taken a lot of courage to do that.
RIP.
Agreed...It must have taken a lot of courage to do that.
RIP.
Didn't really work either, if you've been to SA recently. Violent, poorly managed and completely regressing as a first world country...
Some sort of half and half solution/longer transition was needed. God knows how that would have been workable or achieved I guess.
Amazing strength on De Klerk though.
Jockman said:
Yeah. He got a mixed press but along with Gorbachev remains one of the most influential people of my late 1980s university days up in Newcastle. This at a time when the Soviet Union was collapsing, the Berlin Wall was being flattened and China was taking a novel route to discussion with its students in Tiananmen Square.
RIP.
Funny how you should compare him to Gorbachev. They both did "the right thing (TM)" and they both left their countries completely fRIP.
ked.
robm3 said:
Agreed...
Didn't really work either, if you've been to SA recently. Violent, poorly managed and completely regressing as a first world country...
Some sort of half and half solution/longer transition was needed. God knows how that would have been workable or achieved I guess.
Amazing strength on De Klerk though.
It was never a first world country in the first place though, was it?Didn't really work either, if you've been to SA recently. Violent, poorly managed and completely regressing as a first world country...
Some sort of half and half solution/longer transition was needed. God knows how that would have been workable or achieved I guess.
Amazing strength on De Klerk though.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Yup. I don't even know who is running SA now, but I'll take him over Boris.
Which just goes to show how very little you know of SA.The government there currently ranks as one of the most corrupt in the world.
There is corruption in the police force.
The main (and only) electricity provider (Escom) is unable to supply enough electricity and there is regular 'load shedding' (widespread power cuts for several hours at a time) - this is also due to widespread corruption within Escom and lack of investment as a result.
Yep, can only be better than the UK eh?
TonyRPH said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Yup. I don't even know who is running SA now, but I'll take him over Boris.
Which just goes to show how very little you know of SA.The government there currently ranks as one of the most corrupt in the world.
There is corruption in the police force.
The main (and only) electricity provider (Escom) is unable to supply enough electricity and there is regular 'load shedding' (widespread power cuts for several hours at a time) - this is also due to widespread corruption within Escom and lack of investment as a result.
Yep, can only be better than the UK eh?
TonyRPH said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Yup. I don't even know who is running SA now, but I'll take him over Boris.
Which just goes to show how very little you know of SA.The government there currently ranks as one of the most corrupt in the world.
There is corruption in the police force.
The main (and only) electricity provider (Escom) is unable to supply enough electricity and there is regular 'load shedding' (widespread power cuts for several hours at a time) - this is also due to widespread corruption within Escom and lack of investment as a result.
Yep, can only be better than the UK eh?
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I never said it was better than the UK, I said I'd taker their leader over ours. Just read up on him, Ramaphosa, and whilst not perfect, he seems a better option than our PM.
I know all about Cyril Ramaphosa - I lived in SA back in the days when he was considered an ANC terrorist lol.He's certainly a lot better than Jacob Zuma - but better than any of our UK politicians?
No.
The main difference between this country and somewhere like SA is in how "in your face" the corruption is, although even that seems to be gradually changing here as well. It's like the 'elite' care less and less about how corrupt they look. After all, what's anyone going to do about it? Write a strongly worded letter to the Times, which the editor can use for toilet paper.
The other difference is that, for now, we still have a reasonably reliable electricity supply. But give it time, I'm sure the green changes will soon put a dent in that.
The other difference is that, for now, we still have a reasonably reliable electricity supply. But give it time, I'm sure the green changes will soon put a dent in that.
TonyRPH said:
I know all about Cyril Ramaphosa - I lived in SA back in the days when he was considered an ANC terrorist lol.
He's certainly a lot better than Jacob Zuma - but better than any of our UK politicians?
No.
He was "considered a terrorist" by those intent on maintaining Apartheid. For those people who thought Apartheid was abhorrent and should be abolished he was/is probably a hero. He's certainly a lot better than Jacob Zuma - but better than any of our UK politicians?
No.
I'm not sure FWD dismantled Apartheid because he thought it was wrong, i think it was more the fact that he recognised it was unsustainable.
Countdown said:
He was "considered a terrorist" by those intent on maintaining Apartheid. For those people who thought Apartheid was abhorrent and should be abolished he was/is probably a hero.
I would agree with that - however he was an member of the ANC, an organisation that condoned acts of terror so Apartheid or not - he was still a terrorist (for a while at least).Countdown said:
I'm not sure FWD dismantled Apartheid because he thought it was wrong, i think it was more the fact that he recognised it was unsustainable.
I suspect he dismantled Apartheid for both reasons (unsustainable and perhaps some element of his own beliefs) - but no matter which reason you apply, it would have still taken a great deal of courage for him to have done so.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff