Tesla M3P or BMW i4 m50
Discussion
Hi all - this isn't a bad dilemma, but it's not happening for about 18 months.
Given what lead times are for current BMW models i would probably start the process a year before i needed the car so this is why i am starting to do research now.
I was convinced the i4 m50 was the next car for me, but then i started comparing it with the M3P and, on paper, the BMW loses top trumps in just about every category, including price!
I get that i need to drive both, and that's being arranged as we speak - but is anyone else looking at these two as very close competitors ?
I have to say the tesla charging network is a big influence on the M3P, but the i4 m50 just looks better. (hate myself for saying that..)
Given what lead times are for current BMW models i would probably start the process a year before i needed the car so this is why i am starting to do research now.
I was convinced the i4 m50 was the next car for me, but then i started comparing it with the M3P and, on paper, the BMW loses top trumps in just about every category, including price!
I get that i need to drive both, and that's being arranged as we speak - but is anyone else looking at these two as very close competitors ?
I have to say the tesla charging network is a big influence on the M3P, but the i4 m50 just looks better. (hate myself for saying that..)
Would need to have a look at the BMW but having had a number of their cars previously and just stepped out of an M3P I'd suggest it's going to win on both build quality and interior (especially the seats), it's also a hatchback so despite having less interior space could be more practical dependent on how it's used.
The performance of both is going to be more than you ever need, the supercharger network is great but charge speeds can be a bit disappointing even on a V3 so will have to see how well the i4 sustains high speeds in comparison. There is of course talk of the supercharger network opening up to other EV's anyway.
Range will be interesting as IME over 18k miles the Tesla gets nowhere near it's rating so will have to see how the BMW fares. You do have the option of 19" wheels on the BMW which should help if that's important to you and in combination with active damping should also offer a more comfortable ride (the Tesla is particularly stiff).
Looking forward to seeing some proper UK road tests of the M50 as so far everything has been a rather quick whizz around a German test route.
You also get to spec Sanremo Green and Cognac leather, which has to be a winner?
The performance of both is going to be more than you ever need, the supercharger network is great but charge speeds can be a bit disappointing even on a V3 so will have to see how well the i4 sustains high speeds in comparison. There is of course talk of the supercharger network opening up to other EV's anyway.
Range will be interesting as IME over 18k miles the Tesla gets nowhere near it's rating so will have to see how the BMW fares. You do have the option of 19" wheels on the BMW which should help if that's important to you and in combination with active damping should also offer a more comfortable ride (the Tesla is particularly stiff).
Looking forward to seeing some proper UK road tests of the M50 as so far everything has been a rather quick whizz around a German test route.
You also get to spec Sanremo Green and Cognac leather, which has to be a winner?
The hatchback would seal it for me I think. Not a big fan of the front, a bit of a grower I think but that's purely objective.
It's hard to deny what Tesla has done that they now often seem a more "value" option.
On paper, the Tesla has it. But I don't think there's much in it and I would want to have a go in both to have a final judgement.
What I do like about Tesla is that it feels different because of the cabin layout. Most of the other brands I've sat in kept their EV's really conventional, which again is just preference of course. I like the novelty of the Tesla interior.
It's hard to deny what Tesla has done that they now often seem a more "value" option.
On paper, the Tesla has it. But I don't think there's much in it and I would want to have a go in both to have a final judgement.
What I do like about Tesla is that it feels different because of the cabin layout. Most of the other brands I've sat in kept their EV's really conventional, which again is just preference of course. I like the novelty of the Tesla interior.
SWoll said:
Range will be interesting as IME over 18k miles the Tesla gets nowhere near it's rating so will have to see how the BMW fares. You do have the option of 19" wheels on the BMW which should help if that's important to you and in combination with active damping should also offer a more comfortable ride (the Tesla is particularly stiff).
Could you give me an example of your experience re range please?is it a case of you need to drive it like a Doris at all times to get the claimed range and the moment you have a 'watch this!' moment, you lose 50 miles, or just general UK usage doesn't suit?
Pixelpeep 135 said:
SWoll said:
Range will be interesting as IME over 18k miles the Tesla gets nowhere near it's rating so will have to see how the BMW fares. You do have the option of 19" wheels on the BMW which should help if that's important to you and in combination with active damping should also offer a more comfortable ride (the Tesla is particularly stiff).
Could you give me an example of your experience re range please?is it a case of you need to drive it like a Doris at all times to get the claimed range and the moment you have a 'watch this!' moment, you lose 50 miles, or just general UK usage doesn't suit?
I don't see the BMW being any better though. Slightly bigger battery but heavier and worse drag figures.
oop north said:
What about comfort? Not driven either but the reviewers seem to think the bmw has a v good ride which isn’t something I have seen said for the model 3, esp not the performance.
Mentioned above.Pixelpeep 135 said:
oop north said:
What about comfort? Not driven either but the reviewers seem to think the bmw has a v good ride which isn’t something I have seen said for the model 3, esp not the performance.
doesn't the m3p have air ride?At the asking price over an LR it should have though, and decent seats.
Edited by SWoll on Monday 15th November 15:01
Pixelpeep 135 said:
..but then i started comparing it with the M3P and, on paper, the BMW loses top trumps in just about every category, including price!
Like what? Straight line acceleration? What about corners and overall handling? There's a healthy suspension upgrade 3rd party market for the Model 3 which wouldn't exist to the extent it does if they'd nailed it in the factory.
Charging speed? You need to check time over a 75% charge not headline rates that only occur in perfect conditions and fleetingly. Cars like the e-tron with virtualy half the peak advertised speed have been shown to fill up the car wuicker than a Tesla can.
Top speed? LIke who really needs a car that goes over 90mph in the UK let alone 140 mph? If you apply old school thinking that a car with a top speed of say 90 mph will be slow to accelerate at 80, you need to redefine your thinking for EVs. The BMW i4 reviews say its a weapon at speed
Have you looked at ride and quietness and a host of other criteria?
Tesla are the masters at headline figures and then not quite delivering to them except in absolutely perfect conditions. The Germans have for years under reported the real performance of their cars and then exceeded them in reality. Just look at the Taycans real world range compared to rated as an example.
Thats not to say a Tesla is a bad choice, you just have to dumb down Tesla a little to get a true picture of what it can do.
.
SWoll said:
oop north said:
What about comfort? Not driven either but the reviewers seem to think the bmw has a v good ride which isn’t something I have seen said for the model 3, esp not the performance.
Mentioned above.Pixelpeep 135 said:
oop north said:
What about comfort? Not driven either but the reviewers seem to think the bmw has a v good ride which isn’t something I have seen said for the model 3, esp not the performance.
doesn't the m3p have air ride?At the asking price over an LR it should have though, and decent seats.
Edited by SWoll on Monday 15th November 15:01
thanks for all the input - i don't think this is going to be as easy as i thought. the petrol head in me will just want to go with the fastest for the least cash, but as i've got older and use for the daily commute , comfort is becoming more and more important for me.
Maracus said:
FWIW, I find the seats in my TM3 very comfortable, certainly more so than any previous 3 Series I've owned. Not as good as the seats in an older 2008 A6!
Best idea is to sit in them and try them.
You actually raise a very valid point! We are all different sizes and shapes. Personally I love the seats in Porsche’s since around 2010. Before that, mmm, not so much. BMW sport seats are great and I found the AMG “comfort” seats excellent. I am not a big fan of Tesla seats due to the lack of bolstering and support. And I hated the Malibu / Insignia seats, even the top of the range ones! I remember really wanting a Rover 825i years ago, until I sat in it…. Best idea is to sit in them and try them.
Best thing to do is try them out. Really have to make sure they work for you. It wouldn’t be good to end up with a car that you aren’t comfortable in!
Pixelpeep 135 said:
I test drove a model S in 2017 - brand new base 75D - found the ride and seats very comfortable - sad to hear this might not be the same in the 3. I get there is a not a small gap in price between the two, but even so..
thanks for all the input - i don't think this is going to be as easy as i thought. the petrol head in me will just want to go with the fastest for the least cash, but as i've got older and use for the daily commute , comfort is becoming more and more important for me.
thanks for all the input - i don't think this is going to be as easy as i thought. the petrol head in me will just want to go with the fastest for the least cash, but as i've got older and use for the daily commute , comfort is becoming more and more important for me.
Maracus said:
FWIW, I find the seats in my TM3 very comfortable, certainly more so than any previous 3 Series I've owned. Not as good as the seats in an older 2008 A6!
Best idea is to sit in them and try them.
They're comfortable enough, although lack under thigh support. The issue with them is for a car with such high levels of performance they don't provide enough lateral support so find yourself sliding all over the place when pressing on.Best idea is to sit in them and try them.
I'd consider the performance a lower priority TBH. Great fun at first but find yourself using it less and less and TBH can become frustrating how few opportunities there are. We've swapped from the Tesla to an eTron in last week which is nowhere near as quick but night and day from a comfort/refinement perspective and really appreciating it.
I'd expect the BMW to offer a middle ground.
Heres Johnny said:
Charging speed? You need to check time over a 75% charge not headline rates that only occur in perfect conditions and fleetingly. Cars like the e-tron with virtualy half the peak advertised speed have been shown to fill up the car wuicker than a Tesla can.
Talking about unimportant numbers, quoting the charging curve of the e-tron against that of any Tesla is just plain idiotic.All it proves is that the big Audi is very good at pulling power from a plug.
SWoll said:
They're comfortable enough, although lack under thigh support. The issue with them is for a car with such high levels of performance they don't provide enough lateral support so find yourself sliding all over the place when pressing on.
I'd consider the performance a lower priority TBH. Great fun at first but find yourself using it less and less and TBH can become frustrating how few opportunities there are. We've swapped from the Tesla to an eTron in last week which is nowhere near as quick but night and day from a comfort/refinement perspective and really appreciating it.
I'd expect the BMW to offer a middle ground.
That's interesting - that is what bugs me the most about car seats - my 2016 audi S3 with the leatherette seats was an absolute nightmare - no bolster support and super slippery fake leather to add to the misery.I'd consider the performance a lower priority TBH. Great fun at first but find yourself using it less and less and TBH can become frustrating how few opportunities there are. We've swapped from the Tesla to an eTron in last week which is nowhere near as quick but night and day from a comfort/refinement perspective and really appreciating it.
I'd expect the BMW to offer a middle ground.
my current F40 m135i seats are wonderful - suede and very supportive, just what you need.
ZesPak said:
Heres Johnny said:
Charging speed? You need to check time over a 75% charge not headline rates that only occur in perfect conditions and fleetingly. Cars like the e-tron with virtualy half the peak advertised speed have been shown to fill up the car wuicker than a Tesla can.
Talking about unimportant numbers, quoting the charging curve of the e-tron against that of any Tesla is just plain idiotic.All it proves is that the big Audi is very good at pulling power from a plug.
ZesPak said:
Heres Johnny said:
Charging speed? You need to check time over a 75% charge not headline rates that only occur in perfect conditions and fleetingly. Cars like the e-tron with virtualy half the peak advertised speed have been shown to fill up the car wuicker than a Tesla can.
Talking about unimportant numbers, quoting the charging curve of the e-tron against that of any Tesla is just plain idiotic.All it proves is that the big Audi is very good at pulling power from a plug.
Mikehig said:
ZesPak said:
Heres Johnny said:
Charging speed? You need to check time over a 75% charge not headline rates that only occur in perfect conditions and fleetingly. Cars like the e-tron with virtualy half the peak advertised speed have been shown to fill up the car wuicker than a Tesla can.
Talking about unimportant numbers, quoting the charging curve of the e-tron against that of any Tesla is just plain idiotic.All it proves is that the big Audi is very good at pulling power from a plug.
The reality is only a fraction of chargers including superchargers can deliver 250kw
Those that can only do it in perfect conditions
And when conditions are perfect they do it between about 10 and 25% state of charge
And it goes down from there.
The etron will happily pull 100kw+ until it’s full
The etron GT is also an etron so it’s not just the suv
There are plenty more 100kw charge points around so actually being able to realise the charging potential is much much easier.
But the point I was making was a superficial look at the top trumps charging speed would have Tesla winning hands down, whereas as a user you’ll get nowhere near that speed with the Tesla and many a new owner asks if their car is broken because they’re only getting 65kw on a shared V2 supercharger which is much more the norm.
I’ve not seen a charging review of the BMW but to answer your question, it’s entirely possible the BMW will fill up, even to only 90%, quicker, like the etron does
Edited by Heres Johnny on Monday 15th November 16:58
Heres Johnny said:
Mikehig said:
ZesPak said:
Heres Johnny said:
Charging speed? You need to check time over a 75% charge not headline rates that only occur in perfect conditions and fleetingly. Cars like the e-tron with virtualy half the peak advertised speed have been shown to fill up the car wuicker than a Tesla can.
Talking about unimportant numbers, quoting the charging curve of the e-tron against that of any Tesla is just plain idiotic.All it proves is that the big Audi is very good at pulling power from a plug.
The reality is only a fraction of chargers including superchargers can deliver 250kw
Those that can only do it in perfect conditions
And when conditions are perfect they do it between about 10 and 25% state of charge
And it goes down from there.
The etron will happily pull 100kw+ until it’s full
The etron GT is also an etron so it’s not just the suv
There are plenty more 100kw charge points around so actually being able to realise the charging potential is much much easier.
But the point I was making was a superficial look at the top trumps charging speed would have Tesla winning hands down, whereas as a user you’ll get nowhere near that speed with the Tesla and many a new owner asks if their car is broken because they’re only getting 65kw on a shared V2 supercharger which is much more the norm.
I’ve not seen a charging review of the BMW but to answer your question, it’s entirely possible the BMW will fill up, even to only 90%, quicker, like the etron does
Edited by Heres Johnny on Monday 15th November 16:58
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