Chargers and solar PV
Discussion
I have a Hypervolt charger and am about to get some solar PV panels installed. The Hypervolt has a couple of ECO modes where it takes advantage of solar energy - for example
Hypervolt said:
The "Super ECO Mode" will charge only using solar energy. This requires a minimum of 6 amps or 1.4kW of solar export power available.
How does the device "know" how much solar power is being generated ?I am pretty sure there are a few members that have solar as well as EV's but have it in a slightly unconventional way. Basically use solar to over produce, sell back to the grid and then just charge their EV normally - basically works out better to just sell the generated electricity at a profit and charge as needed at a discounted rate. Economically works out better that way!
I am also sure there are few people who have battery packs for their solar too - basically use solar to charge the batteries and then utilize them to charge their EV, which I see is the common way that this is sold / recommended. Though this is suddenly getting quite expensive.
I am also sure there are few people who have battery packs for their solar too - basically use solar to charge the batteries and then utilize them to charge their EV, which I see is the common way that this is sold / recommended. Though this is suddenly getting quite expensive.
off_again said:
I am pretty sure there are a few members that have solar as well as EV's but have it in a slightly unconventional way. Basically use solar to over produce, sell back to the grid and then just charge their EV normally - basically works out better to just sell the generated electricity at a profit and charge as needed at a discounted rate. Economically works out better that way!
I am also sure there are few people who have battery packs for their solar too - basically use solar to charge the batteries and then utilize them to charge their EV, which I see is the common way that this is sold / recommended. Though this is suddenly getting quite expensive.
Not wishing to derail the OPs question, but roughly speaking, any idea what the cost difference is between the two options, in terms on the solar install. I'm sure there are lots of variables, but is it twice the price to include batteries for example? I'm pondering on solar, in part because EV delivery is imminent, but that isn't the main reason, because it won't need charging daily.I am also sure there are few people who have battery packs for their solar too - basically use solar to charge the batteries and then utilize them to charge their EV, which I see is the common way that this is sold / recommended. Though this is suddenly getting quite expensive.
GAVGOLF said:
There will generally be a CT / meter that measures import/export from the property and will charge the car when there is export
So there is a signal wire incorporated within the cable between the meter box and the charger ? I had thought it was a simple 3-core SWA cable.LaserTam said:
off_again said:
I am pretty sure there are a few members that have solar as well as EV's but have it in a slightly unconventional way. Basically use solar to over produce, sell back to the grid and then just charge their EV normally - basically works out better to just sell the generated electricity at a profit and charge as needed at a discounted rate. Economically works out better that way!
I am also sure there are few people who have battery packs for their solar too - basically use solar to charge the batteries and then utilize them to charge their EV, which I see is the common way that this is sold / recommended. Though this is suddenly getting quite expensive.
Not wishing to derail the OPs question, but roughly speaking, any idea what the cost difference is between the two options, in terms on the solar install. I'm sure there are lots of variables, but is it twice the price to include batteries for example? I'm pondering on solar, in part because EV delivery is imminent, but that isn't the main reason, because it won't need charging daily.I am also sure there are few people who have battery packs for their solar too - basically use solar to charge the batteries and then utilize them to charge their EV, which I see is the common way that this is sold / recommended. Though this is suddenly getting quite expensive.
I am considering adding a battery to the system, but it is quite expensive. Adding an 8.2 kWh battery to one quote I had added about £4k to the price. I want to see how the installation performs (it's 13kWp) before deciding on what battery size to go for.
LaserTam said:
Not wishing to derail the OPs question, but roughly speaking, any idea what the cost difference is between the two options, in terms on the solar install. I'm sure there are lots of variables, but is it twice the price to include batteries for example? I'm pondering on solar, in part because EV delivery is imminent, but that isn't the main reason, because it won't need charging daily.
Sorry, but I am not the person to talk about that stuff. I have an idea, but certainly not enough detail I am afraid.Hoping this will go back on track again as I'll be swapping my charger (Chargemaster) to one where the smart stuff works and will be wanting to link it in to my SPV setup (panels and battery). My understanding is the HyperVolt system does not interact directly with the solar system, but instead if it monitors enough power being exported through a clip round your power cable (how many clips can you have, as my inverter and/or battery use a clip) then it will charge the car of one of 3 pre-sets, 1.4kW, 3.6 or 7.2. No clue on how the Zappi system works.
"I am considering adding a battery to the system, but it is quite expensive. Adding an 8.2 kWh battery to one quote I had added about £4k to the price. I want to see how the installation performs (it's 13kWp) before deciding on what battery size to go for."
We looked at getting solar panels and a battery. It kind of made sense to us as we wanted to save the solar energy produced during the day when usage was low to use again in the evening or for car charging.
However, this thread in Homes and Gardens and DIY really made us think about the economies of battery storage....
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Let's say that each kW you save would have cost you 20p to buy from your supplier. So your £4k battery can store £1.64 worth of electricity.
So if you manage to generate and store 8.2kW of solar electricity every single day of the year, it will take you over 6 years to just repay the capital cost of the battery, then by my logic (which may be flawed..) you can start to see some payback on your investment.
Or as one of the posters on that thread put it "You just paid for 5 years' electricity upfront.."
We looked at getting solar panels and a battery. It kind of made sense to us as we wanted to save the solar energy produced during the day when usage was low to use again in the evening or for car charging.
However, this thread in Homes and Gardens and DIY really made us think about the economies of battery storage....
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Let's say that each kW you save would have cost you 20p to buy from your supplier. So your £4k battery can store £1.64 worth of electricity.
So if you manage to generate and store 8.2kW of solar electricity every single day of the year, it will take you over 6 years to just repay the capital cost of the battery, then by my logic (which may be flawed..) you can start to see some payback on your investment.
Or as one of the posters on that thread put it "You just paid for 5 years' electricity upfront.."
S1bs said:
However, this thread in Homes and Gardens and DIY really made us think about the economies of battery storage....
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Thanks for that - makes for an interesting read.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
S1bs said:
"I am considering adding a battery to the system, but it is quite expensive. Adding an 8.2 kWh battery to one quote I had added about £4k to the price. I want to see how the installation performs (it's 13kWp) before deciding on what battery size to go for."
We looked at getting solar panels and a battery. It kind of made sense to us as we wanted to save the solar energy produced during the day when usage was low to use again in the evening or for car charging.
However, this thread in Homes and Gardens and DIY really made us think about the economies of battery storage....
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Let's say that each kW you save would have cost you 20p to buy from your supplier. So your £4k battery can store £1.64 worth of electricity.
So if you manage to generate and store 8.2kW of solar electricity every single day of the year, it will take you over 6 years to just repay the capital cost of the battery, then by my logic (which may be flawed..) you can start to see some payback on your investment.
Or as one of the posters on that thread put it "You just paid for 5 years' electricity upfront.."
Well, not quite, the advent of EV charging tariffs has changed things somewhat.We looked at getting solar panels and a battery. It kind of made sense to us as we wanted to save the solar energy produced during the day when usage was low to use again in the evening or for car charging.
However, this thread in Homes and Gardens and DIY really made us think about the economies of battery storage....
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Let's say that each kW you save would have cost you 20p to buy from your supplier. So your £4k battery can store £1.64 worth of electricity.
So if you manage to generate and store 8.2kW of solar electricity every single day of the year, it will take you over 6 years to just repay the capital cost of the battery, then by my logic (which may be flawed..) you can start to see some payback on your investment.
Or as one of the posters on that thread put it "You just paid for 5 years' electricity upfront.."
Most home battery system allow for topping up the battery using the overnight EV tariff (currently 5p Kw/h).
Whereas before it was necessary to import some/most electric particularly from November to early March, now it's possible to start each new day with a full, or nearly full battery. Some systems even check tomorrows weather forecast to guess how much PV to expect. Sometimes with astonishing accuracy, other times, less so.
But the bottom line is, the calculation is no longer how much PV you can generate/store/use, but how much of the ever increasing peak rate electricity you'll be freed from. Personally, at this moment in time, I don't use ANY peak rate, including charging the car, and I don't anticipate this changing over winter.
I am hoping to get solar and battery in the next year or so. Have been thinking about it for several years but always been too expensive and not the highest priority. Have particularly been mindful of the power wall only holding a couple of quid of electricity, so even back of a fag packet calculation assuming you save the full capacity every day of the year gives you a 12 year or so payback for the battery
The mention of power cut coverage is attractive until you realise you have to assign whatever reserve you want to have and never use it for any other purpose. So if you have a Tesla power wall which I think is 13 kWh, and decide you would need 5kWh for power cuts, then you can only ever use 8kWh actively.
We live in the countryside and have regular power cuts but usually a temporary blip or at worst an hour or so for planned maintenance. So maybe much less needed to cover occasional blips? Hard to say
Our economics are a bit different from most people in that we live on father in law’s farm and the single three phase supply shared with two other houses - as is our wind turbine. We are currently paying for around 15,000 kWh pa - which is the result of one EV, an air source heat pump and swapping out the oil fired Rayburn earlier this year for an electric range (everhot). So we can’t have one of the cheap overnight tariffs
I reckon that with both wind and solar we should get a relatively even value from batteries over the year, though we will never use all the wind. Our one third share from an 11kW turbine can reach 70kWh in the windiest 24 hours but averages 20-23kWh per calendar day. Imagine trying to store 2-3 days’ production on the windiest day! We’d need 200kWh capacity which would be stupendously expensive and utilised for about a week a year.
In terms of spread, the best production from the turbine is winter and spring, with July to September usually rubbish - but solar the opposite. It looks to me from what people say that solar is far less peaky than wind, so would generally run the air source heat pump with a bit of support from the battery
It does of course get much more interesting with continued increases in the price of electricity - we are fixed at just under 15p until next October or thereabouts, and if the price increases by 50% or 100% then, the payback on battery will reduce accordingly
I have seen a number of people doing installations on the cheap and then coming unstuck because paying cheap gets someone who doesn’t do the job properly.
What I have noticed is that about three years ago the Tesla power wall was cheaper than any other battery storage. But now it is one of the most expensive - the Tesla price has stayed around the same (and there seems to be plenty of demand for them) while competitors have been getting cheaper.
The mention of power cut coverage is attractive until you realise you have to assign whatever reserve you want to have and never use it for any other purpose. So if you have a Tesla power wall which I think is 13 kWh, and decide you would need 5kWh for power cuts, then you can only ever use 8kWh actively.
We live in the countryside and have regular power cuts but usually a temporary blip or at worst an hour or so for planned maintenance. So maybe much less needed to cover occasional blips? Hard to say
Our economics are a bit different from most people in that we live on father in law’s farm and the single three phase supply shared with two other houses - as is our wind turbine. We are currently paying for around 15,000 kWh pa - which is the result of one EV, an air source heat pump and swapping out the oil fired Rayburn earlier this year for an electric range (everhot). So we can’t have one of the cheap overnight tariffs
I reckon that with both wind and solar we should get a relatively even value from batteries over the year, though we will never use all the wind. Our one third share from an 11kW turbine can reach 70kWh in the windiest 24 hours but averages 20-23kWh per calendar day. Imagine trying to store 2-3 days’ production on the windiest day! We’d need 200kWh capacity which would be stupendously expensive and utilised for about a week a year.
In terms of spread, the best production from the turbine is winter and spring, with July to September usually rubbish - but solar the opposite. It looks to me from what people say that solar is far less peaky than wind, so would generally run the air source heat pump with a bit of support from the battery
It does of course get much more interesting with continued increases in the price of electricity - we are fixed at just under 15p until next October or thereabouts, and if the price increases by 50% or 100% then, the payback on battery will reduce accordingly
I have seen a number of people doing installations on the cheap and then coming unstuck because paying cheap gets someone who doesn’t do the job properly.
What I have noticed is that about three years ago the Tesla power wall was cheaper than any other battery storage. But now it is one of the most expensive - the Tesla price has stayed around the same (and there seems to be plenty of demand for them) while competitors have been getting cheaper.
Our village hall is looking at viability if battery storage. It was rebuilt about 5 years ago and has ground source heating and circa 16 solar panels on the south facing roof.
Looking at a Tesla 13.5 kWh system. Analysing the historic data and recognising that we use circa 50% of the solar energy to run the pumps 24/7 the panels would only fill the battery fully for four months of the year. Average storage would be circa 7 kWh across the full year giving a 20 year payback at 15p/kw.
At this time of the year the panels generate between zero and 2 kw per day! We are in North Cumbria so further south would be better.
Looking at a Tesla 13.5 kWh system. Analysing the historic data and recognising that we use circa 50% of the solar energy to run the pumps 24/7 the panels would only fill the battery fully for four months of the year. Average storage would be circa 7 kWh across the full year giving a 20 year payback at 15p/kw.
At this time of the year the panels generate between zero and 2 kw per day! We are in North Cumbria so further south would be better.
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