Clipless Pedal Knee Problem
Discussion
Went out on my MTB for the first time in years yesterday. I used to use shimano clipless pedals. Today my left knee is somewhat sore. Has anybody had experience with setting these up. I remember it started happening when I changed my shoes a while back. But I figured it was because I was riding so much. A few years later and it's back after one ride, so I figured it's my shoes. Any ideas how to change my cleats/alter the setup?
Either the crank is out of alignment (has it had a bang?), your cleats are twisted on your shoes or your saddle is at the wrong height and putting extra strain on your knees.
That was all a direct quote from the bloke who is MTB mad and works opposite me. He got knocked off his bike a while back and didn't realise he had a slightly bent crank (watch the chain wheels as they rotate). He had pain in his right knee as a result.
Hope that helps, I haven't a clue!
That was all a direct quote from the bloke who is MTB mad and works opposite me. He got knocked off his bike a while back and didn't realise he had a slightly bent crank (watch the chain wheels as they rotate). He had pain in his right knee as a result.
Hope that helps, I haven't a clue!
Don't think it is unheard of.
My Dad and his mates are all keen cyclists and I am sure i have seen articles in some his books/magazines about knee problems due to pedal alignment/setup and everything else actually.
try looking at a cycle website and search for articles, and in the meantime don't try proposing or begging.
My Dad and his mates are all keen cyclists and I am sure i have seen articles in some his books/magazines about knee problems due to pedal alignment/setup and everything else actually.
try looking at a cycle website and search for articles, and in the meantime don't try proposing or begging.
My mate says:
Saddle - Crank straight up/down (12/6 'o'clock) heel of lower pedal on pedal and leg should be 'slightly' bent. Yes he did mean heel not ball of foot.
Cleats - Make sure foot on pedal in cleat is straight ahead not toe in or out (motoring ref
) Ball of foot should be right on centre of pedal. They adjust with Allen bolts (He's looking at his Shimano cleats as I type!)and should slide fore and aft and left and right. Also make sure both cleats are in exactly the same position.
Hope that is of some help.
Saddle - Crank straight up/down (12/6 'o'clock) heel of lower pedal on pedal and leg should be 'slightly' bent. Yes he did mean heel not ball of foot.
Cleats - Make sure foot on pedal in cleat is straight ahead not toe in or out (motoring ref
) Ball of foot should be right on centre of pedal. They adjust with Allen bolts (He's looking at his Shimano cleats as I type!)and should slide fore and aft and left and right. Also make sure both cleats are in exactly the same position. Hope that is of some help.
It's probably the cleat position on the shoe. If you've just bought new shoes and put the cleats on I'd almost certainly state it's the cause of the problem.
Remember your foot is fixed to the pedal and if the cleat is out of line your knee joint won't be turning in a smooth circle, hence the pain. Be very careful as well as it can lead to years of agony - I know from experience. The cleat should be centered roughly on the ball and angled slightly away from the toe (would be pointing dead ahead on the pedal - Hoping this makes sense). If you still get pain try moving the cleat around and playing with different positions. Also, are you still using SPD's? If so see if you can get some cleats with a little more float in them, this will provide a little give if they're set up slightly wrong.
As for the saddle height, sit on the bike and with the pedal on its lowest downstroke place your heel on the pedal. Your leg should then be straight. Hence when you place the ball of your foot on the pedal you'll have a slight bend at the knee on the lowest point.
>> Edited by zippee on Wednesday 27th July 13:49
Remember your foot is fixed to the pedal and if the cleat is out of line your knee joint won't be turning in a smooth circle, hence the pain. Be very careful as well as it can lead to years of agony - I know from experience. The cleat should be centered roughly on the ball and angled slightly away from the toe (would be pointing dead ahead on the pedal - Hoping this makes sense). If you still get pain try moving the cleat around and playing with different positions. Also, are you still using SPD's? If so see if you can get some cleats with a little more float in them, this will provide a little give if they're set up slightly wrong.
As for the saddle height, sit on the bike and with the pedal on its lowest downstroke place your heel on the pedal. Your leg should then be straight. Hence when you place the ball of your foot on the pedal you'll have a slight bend at the knee on the lowest point.
>> Edited by zippee on Wednesday 27th July 13:49
Saddle height: Depends on the kind of riding you do, but a good rule of thumb as a starting point is to set the height such that your leg is fully straight at BDC with your heel on the pedal. The idea is that in normal riding, your leg shouldn't quite get to fully straight.
Cleats: Sit on a wall or something and let your legs dangle freely. Look to see what angle your feet naturally hang at and set the cleats so that they would point straight ahead with your feet at this angle. Should remove any twisting from your knees.
Also, if you have a bit of a dodgy knee, maybe some pedals with a bit more "float" in them would be better (i.e. ones that let your feet move through a larger angle before unclipping). The downside is needing more of a twist to get unclipped. You may be able to fiddle with your cleats to allow more range of movement (some allow you to swap them from foot to foot to switch between 2 different escape angles).
HTH
Cleats: Sit on a wall or something and let your legs dangle freely. Look to see what angle your feet naturally hang at and set the cleats so that they would point straight ahead with your feet at this angle. Should remove any twisting from your knees.
Also, if you have a bit of a dodgy knee, maybe some pedals with a bit more "float" in them would be better (i.e. ones that let your feet move through a larger angle before unclipping). The downside is needing more of a twist to get unclipped. You may be able to fiddle with your cleats to allow more range of movement (some allow you to swap them from foot to foot to switch between 2 different escape angles).
HTH
miniman said:
How old is the bike? Some time ago oval chainrings were all the rage but I do recall a lot of reports of knee pain due to the odd motion. Might be worth a look.
Apparently this was caused by misunderstanding the dynamics of the system and hence people fitting the cranks 90° out from where they should have been, relative to the chainring.
I would recommend using some cleats that allow more float in them. i use Time on my Ribble road bike, and suffer from knee probs just jogging across a zebra crossing, but have never had any probs on my bike .. i put this down to the massive movement you get in my Time cleats / shoe combo.
There's no guarantee your knee is in line of course, so having some movement is beneficial IMO.
There's no guarantee your knee is in line of course, so having some movement is beneficial IMO.
Right, how to say this without risking offending you ... uhm ... are you a duck-footed, knock-kneed mutant? If so, you can have all the kit aligned neatly at right-angles, but it wouldn't be suited to your anatomy. If you were already fit when you first started using clipless pedals, your coordination and muscle strength around the knee may have been sufficient to compensate for the set-up not being ideal for your legs. Leave it a few years, become a weakling lard boy, then hop back on the bike and you've lost the coordination and strength that was previously supporting your knee.
editted to say trackcar's advice sounds good to me
>> Edited by ATG on Wednesday 27th July 14:01
editted to say trackcar's advice sounds good to me
>> Edited by ATG on Wednesday 27th July 14:01
Wildfire:
what type of SPD fitting is it?
aare they the very small oval ones with a 'lug' at the fore and aft position, or the larger weird shape SPD-R, or the new SPD-SL?
If it is your left knee then this can be the result (sometimes) of one taking the same foot out at traffic lights, etc. and subsequently wearing out one shoeplate in comparison with the other side.
If you replace one plate you should always replace the other and although it's good to have 'float' in you set up (varies for everyone), float that is caused by worn pedal bed and the interface with the shoeplate is very bad. Remember the sole of the foot isn't ordinarily inclined to stay on a flat plane when revolving around the pedal stroke.
One way of demonstarting this is if you sit on a high stool and hang your legs off the edge, dangle them. Then do an imaginary pedal stroke. The sole will be normally cocked to a slight angle.
By sticking it in a rigid pedal setup, you then have then knee performing an elliptical orbit as it makes up for the foot being stuck in position. This should always be taken into account when setting up your pedals.
try sticking your bike on a turbo trainer to set up. It's always trial and error anyway and can take some time to get right; don't rely on the 'float' aspect that certain pedal/plates provide you with to cut corners. Above all the position should be correct.
Lastly take an allen key out on your first few rides and be prepared to stop and adjust.
Good luck.
what type of SPD fitting is it?
aare they the very small oval ones with a 'lug' at the fore and aft position, or the larger weird shape SPD-R, or the new SPD-SL?
If it is your left knee then this can be the result (sometimes) of one taking the same foot out at traffic lights, etc. and subsequently wearing out one shoeplate in comparison with the other side.
If you replace one plate you should always replace the other and although it's good to have 'float' in you set up (varies for everyone), float that is caused by worn pedal bed and the interface with the shoeplate is very bad. Remember the sole of the foot isn't ordinarily inclined to stay on a flat plane when revolving around the pedal stroke.
One way of demonstarting this is if you sit on a high stool and hang your legs off the edge, dangle them. Then do an imaginary pedal stroke. The sole will be normally cocked to a slight angle.
By sticking it in a rigid pedal setup, you then have then knee performing an elliptical orbit as it makes up for the foot being stuck in position. This should always be taken into account when setting up your pedals.
try sticking your bike on a turbo trainer to set up. It's always trial and error anyway and can take some time to get right; don't rely on the 'float' aspect that certain pedal/plates provide you with to cut corners. Above all the position should be correct.
Lastly take an allen key out on your first few rides and be prepared to stop and adjust.
Good luck.
Another thing to consider is that your foot may not naturally sit flat in a horizontal plane. Forcing it flat onto the pedal and lockig it there with cleats may put a strain in the knee. Might need some insoles for the shoe to allow the shoe to be flat but your foot to be at its natural angle.
Another vote for Time kit (MTB) or try the older fashioned Look style (road) as you can get these with a decent amount of float. Excellent stuff but not the cheapest out there but it should sort your knees out quite quickly.
Take the advice above on saddle height to heart, even a few mm can make a large difference. It's a fine trade-off being comfortable and producing max power. Also once you find the best saddle height, then if it's a carbon seat stem put some tape around it, or if it's steel/aluminium make a small mark on it. Then you will always be able to ensure the saddle is at the right height.
One final item, don't forget saddle angle (nose of saddle up or down relative to back of saddle). Generally this should be pointing slightly nose down but almost flat. Again it's a matter of playing aroud with the settings and finding what's most comfortable for you.
Chris
Take the advice above on saddle height to heart, even a few mm can make a large difference. It's a fine trade-off being comfortable and producing max power. Also once you find the best saddle height, then if it's a carbon seat stem put some tape around it, or if it's steel/aluminium make a small mark on it. Then you will always be able to ensure the saddle is at the right height.
One final item, don't forget saddle angle (nose of saddle up or down relative to back of saddle). Generally this should be pointing slightly nose down but almost flat. Again it's a matter of playing aroud with the settings and finding what's most comfortable for you.
Chris
Cheers for the help guys. They are the old SPD type pedals, around 7 years old Shimano. I am considering moving to a pedal with more float but seeing as the bank of Wildfire won't allow for more insurnce on the Griff new pedals could be out.
I think I'll have to have a look at the position tonight. Sort fo feels like I cannot toe out enough sometimes. I'd really like to get this sorted and get back into riding as I really enjoyed it.
P.S I don't think I walk duck footed or anything. I think I lost a cleat and had to reposition them once. But I definitley have a problem at the moment. I'd rather not switch back to traditional pedals.
I think I'll have to have a look at the position tonight. Sort fo feels like I cannot toe out enough sometimes. I'd really like to get this sorted and get back into riding as I really enjoyed it.
P.S I don't think I walk duck footed or anything. I think I lost a cleat and had to reposition them once. But I definitley have a problem at the moment. I'd rather not switch back to traditional pedals.
Wildfire said:
Cheers for the help guys. They are the old SPD type pedals, around 7 years old Shimano. I am considering moving to a pedal with more float but seeing as the bank of Wildfire won't allow for more insurnce on the Griff new pedals could be out.
I think I'll have to have a look at the position tonight. Sort fo feels like I cannot toe out enough sometimes. I'd really like to get this sorted and get back into riding as I really enjoyed it.
P.S I don't think I walk duck footed or anything. I think I lost a cleat and had to reposition them once. But I definitley have a problem at the moment. I'd rather not switch back to traditional pedals.
I think I have some unused SPD plates of that type in my garage; I had VPs on my winter bike and they used that plate. If I can find them I'll bung them in the post for you.
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