She passe test - at FORTIETH Attempt
Discussion
Debate about to start on R2 Vine prog.
Woman Ms Crabtree has 2000 lessons over 33 years und finally passed test :yikes:
Question
1. Ist she safe?
2. Should it be three strikes and out.
She claims it was nerves und she lost it on one mistake und made even more through this. Each was different reason - bad reverse, mirror/wing mirror error, :eek: :yikes: Und she ist not aloweed on m-m- motorway.
Debate now on!
Have listen or on listen again later ;)
Woman Ms Crabtree has 2000 lessons over 33 years und finally passed test :yikes:
Question
1. Ist she safe?
2. Should it be three strikes and out.
She claims it was nerves und she lost it on one mistake und made even more through this. Each was different reason - bad reverse, mirror/wing mirror error, :eek: :yikes: Und she ist not aloweed on m-m- motorway.
Debate now on!
Have listen or on listen again later ;)
well, 40 tests is a bit extreme.. but some people like myself find it very hard to be watched and marked while doing something. I was a bag of nerves for 5 of my 6 tests 
It was only when i had woman who chatted to me all through the test that i relaxed and passed.
The driving test is just repeating a series of tasks, some people can do it, some can't. I don't believe it actually has much to do with the standard of your driving
It was only when i had woman who chatted to me all through the test that i relaxed and passed. The driving test is just repeating a series of tasks, some people can do it, some can't. I don't believe it actually has much to do with the standard of your driving
Chap ist now on about it being privil;ege und not right. Motoring journalist has been driving 23 years - learned to drive at 11 years und passed one week after 17th birthday. He reckons silly mistakes - und he rides motorbike/bicycle und he ist dead.
He compares classic to modern car und says perception of speed ist diffrent in modern car. Ist true - our old classics have a really different feel to Jags.
Driving instructress of 29 years says people will teach to pass test. Und she says hazards are different und that the lady in question had gaps in the 33 years - und ist question of not enough practice between lessons.
Again - have said before - you gain experience on each drive und ist necessary to evaluate the drive und yes - never be afraid to overtake.
But again - ist COAST. Journalist criticised hazard perception - as journalist he should explain COAST und he has been e-mailed at his office now to spread COAST in paper. (Manchester Evening News!)
He compares classic to modern car und says perception of speed ist diffrent in modern car. Ist true - our old classics have a really different feel to Jags.
Driving instructress of 29 years says people will teach to pass test. Und she says hazards are different und that the lady in question had gaps in the 33 years - und ist question of not enough practice between lessons.
Again - have said before - you gain experience on each drive und ist necessary to evaluate the drive und yes - never be afraid to overtake.
But again - ist COAST.
Journalist criticised hazard perception - as journalist he should explain COAST und he has been e-mailed at his office now to spread COAST in paper. (Manchester Evening News!) There is a strong case for re-tests after (say) twenty years and at some interval after that. Not a full learner's test, but a half hour drive where you should demonstrate that you understand the basics of road safety and car control.
It would clear a whole slew of dangerous drivers off the road, and put a dampener on the idea that everyone has an automatic right to own and drive a car.
It would clear a whole slew of dangerous drivers off the road, and put a dampener on the idea that everyone has an automatic right to own and drive a car.
WildCat said:
Questions
1. Is she safe?
2. Should it be three strikes and out.
1. Never seen her drive, but my guess is no, you see too many people on the road obviously terrified of what's going on around them, just about peering over the steering wheel, etc.
2. Maybe not 3 strikes and out, maybe 3 strikes and wait 2 years.
I've put hundreds of people in for tests.
Some I did just to teach them a lesson - to demonstrate that it wasn't just my opinion that they were crap. Amazingly some passed.
And then you get the bottlers you are more than willing to share the roads with who take 4 tests.
I usually put clients in when I was 75% sure that they would pass.
(I had two pass at 6 - my worst. Awful low skill levels and probably a danger to the public now. But if I didn't take their money then someone else would have. I also told a couple of people that they should just give up the idea of driving coz they were just plain wrong for it.)
It would be a good idea if after 5 attempts you were deferred for a year.
Some I did just to teach them a lesson - to demonstrate that it wasn't just my opinion that they were crap. Amazingly some passed.
And then you get the bottlers you are more than willing to share the roads with who take 4 tests.
I usually put clients in when I was 75% sure that they would pass.
(I had two pass at 6 - my worst. Awful low skill levels and probably a danger to the public now. But if I didn't take their money then someone else would have. I also told a couple of people that they should just give up the idea of driving coz they were just plain wrong for it.)
It would be a good idea if after 5 attempts you were deferred for a year.
FunkyNige said:
2. Maybe not 3 strikes and out, maybe 3 strikes and wait 2 years.
I like this suggestion...or something similar. The truly dire will effectively be prevented from driving. But those who are just too nervous at a young age get to try again without too much delay.
Planetdave: I think alll the above would do would be to move things such that instead of putting them in with a 75% liklihood you' put 'em in a month or two later at 90%. More money for driving instructors - and safer roads. Bargain.
I was ready to take my test after 6 lessons, but took a few more to be safe. Test day came, bag of nerves, and thus failed. Same thing happened the second time around which was frustrating as driving came naturally to me.
I then necked a couple of beers before the third test (and failed) follwing which, 2 years after the first test, I took the test 4th time (by which time I was a more confidant person) and passed.
If we'd had the three strikes rule Id not be driving now. Although confidant and relaxed as a person, the bag of nerves syndrome only occured when being tested.
I then necked a couple of beers before the third test (and failed) follwing which, 2 years after the first test, I took the test 4th time (by which time I was a more confidant person) and passed.
If we'd had the three strikes rule Id not be driving now. Although confidant and relaxed as a person, the bag of nerves syndrome only occured when being tested.
Don.
Amazingly you will find that I was very professional and had a huge hit rate (20% higher than national average over many years, and have written confirmation of the fact from the DSA)
If I waited longer then the % pass rate would barely increase AND it would look like I was giving excess lessons just for the benefit of my wallet. Not good business. And you live on your reputation for honesty/integrity and ability to get them in as soon as possible.
Amazingly you will find that I was very professional and had a huge hit rate (20% higher than national average over many years, and have written confirmation of the fact from the DSA)
If I waited longer then the % pass rate would barely increase AND it would look like I was giving excess lessons just for the benefit of my wallet. Not good business. And you live on your reputation for honesty/integrity and ability to get them in as soon as possible.
People learn at different rates. I recall being put in for my first driving test when, with hindsight, I clearly wasn't ready but my parents were pressuring the instructor because "surely he's had enough lessons now". So I was put in and duly failed.
However, I would probably agree that passing on your 40th attempt is clearly indicative that you passed more by luck than merit.
Got to admire the dedication though.
However, I would probably agree that passing on your 40th attempt is clearly indicative that you passed more by luck than merit.
Got to admire the dedication though.
I'll give you a quick insight into how I decided to advise going for test.
When you have the client climb into the drivers seat you get a 'comfort factor'....how good you feel about them as someone who you share the road with. When you feel good about the prospect them you look at the details. I had an old test sheet and I would mark off against each section how good the client was. If both these were in a positive range then you would get them in NOW because in those days there was a 4-8 week waiting list. So you had to project ahead what rate they were improving at and make a guess at how far they were from a 'bloody good chance'. In reality at 4 weeks away they should be very good at 'driving around' and nearly there at manouvres. The latter stages are mostly about 'head games'....playing them up with test sheets ('yep - that'd pass that part')and making positive noises all the time to get them up for it. You could tell some that they were 90% likely to pass because you could see them not bottling but some had to go in at what I would rate as 50/50 since you could see that they would have a confidence problem.
As JonRB pointed out you were often pressured by parents and cocky types to be put in. I'd have to get my high horse out to explain that it would be a false economy to be spending a large wad on failing a test (how many have you put in for test? 0? 1 or 2? Hmm, I did 2 last week) and go to the back of the Q.
Someone that useless will probably lose their license again during the probationary period. Only needs to fail to see 2 gatsos/scamvans in 2 years and it's all over.
When that happens she'll probably give up for life.
Perseverance is one thing, but I think knowing one's limitations is a much more valuable skill in this context.
When that happens she'll probably give up for life.
Perseverance is one thing, but I think knowing one's limitations is a much more valuable skill in this context.
CarZee said:
Someone that useless will probably lose their license again during the probationary period. Only needs to fail to see 2 gatsos/scamvans in 2 years and it's all over.
I think it's extremely unlikely that she'll ever get within shouting distance of a speed-limit, she'll be one of those slowcoach ditherers that force irrational overtake attempts by her frustrated followers.
This was on the Jeremy Vine show this afternoon. Had Steve Berry (remember him from the old Top Gear?)saying that it should be 3 strikes and you are out and a Driving Instructor arguing the other points. A good point was raised that (not sure if it correct) pilots and doctors do not get multiple chances to pass as their jobs are potentially dangerous so why should you be given every chance to "deferr success" to drive 2 tonnes of steel at 70mph! Of course the instructors want to keep taking the money off you but 40 times is rediculous. Maybe you should get say 5 chances or better still make the test harder (motorways/ high speed/ nightime) so the "motoringly challenged" can never pass. Should make the roads safer as well.
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