Dealer trying it on with part ex

[jaytay68]

hi guys,

will try to keep it short and factual, but just wanted to vent and see if anyone else had encountered this situation before

Ordered a new car for the Mrs from a franchised dealer in July, with an original expected delivery of Oct. Agreed px value of 25k against her current car, which was on finance but had around 7k equity in it. Order form signed by both parties. Inevitably car was delayed till Dec so we had made around 5 months worth of repayments on the current car.

Fast forward to collection day, and I was in a bit of a rush to collect the new car as I had to be somewhere. Had to put down remaining cash deposit for the finance + the part ex car. Didn't have the final numbers for the cash deposit to hand [which i am now kicking myself about] so asked the dealer if the cash deposit was revised to reflect the additional amounts we had paid off the existing agreement on the part ex, to which they replied "yes".

Anyway, get home and double check the numbers, and it turns out that was not the case.. I had overpaid as they had not taken into account the revised settlement figure.

Now, I contacted them about what i thought to be a simple mistake, and they tell me that "as we discussed" they had frozen the equity amount in the car and not the part exchange valuation of the car itself, so that "if the market would go either way you would be protected financially", and therefore they had reduced the px value to reflect "the agreed equity amount".

We absolutely did not discuss such a thing and I am demanding they either show me where this was documented or refund me the difference. Fact of the matter is, there is nothing in writing to support this - just a signed order form which confirms the part ex price of 25k - so I'm pretty positive I will get the money back. The part ex is still valued at the same it was in July, so feels like they are being totally underhand here, bordering on fraudulent.

WTF ?

[Tyre Smoke]

No help, but why oh why do people not check paperwork before signing? Especially for such a significant amount.

Best of luck mate, but I suspect you're in for a world of pain.

[Monkeylegend]

jaytay68 said:

hi guys,

will try to keep it short and factual, but just wanted to vent and see if anyone else had encountered this situation before

Ordered a new car for the Mrs from a franchised dealer in July, with an original expected delivery of Oct. Agreed px value of 25k against her current car, which was on finance but had around 7k equity in it. Order form signed by both parties. Inevitably car was delayed till Dec so we had made around 5 months worth of repayments on the current car.

Fast forward to collection day, and I was in a bit of a rush to collect the new car as I had to be somewhere. Had to put down remaining cash deposit for the finance + the part ex car. Didn't have the final numbers for the cash deposit to hand [which i am now kicking myself about] so asked the dealer if the cash deposit was revised to reflect the additional amounts we had paid off the existing agreement on the part ex, to which they replied "yes".

Anyway, get home and double check the numbers, and it turns out that was not the case.. I had overpaid as they had not taken into account the revised settlement figure.

Now, I contacted them about what i thought to be a simple mistake, and they tell me that "as we discussed" they had frozen the equity amount in the car and not the part exchange valuation of the car itself, so that "if the market would go either way you would be protected financially", and therefore they had reduced the px value to reflect "the agreed equity amount".

We absolutely did not discuss such a thing and I am demanding they either show me where this was documented or refund me the difference. Fact of the matter is, there is nothing in writing to support this - just a signed order form which confirms the part ex price of 25k - so I'm pretty positive I will get the money back. The part ex is still valued at the same it was in July, so feels like they are being totally underhand here, bordering on fraudulent.

WTF ?

Presumably you have added some miles as well so that would need to be taken into account?

[jaytay68]

Tyre Smoke said:

No help, but why oh why do people not check paperwork before signing? Especially for such a significant amount.

Best of luck mate, but I suspect you're in for a world of pain.

Thanks mate. I signed nothing on the day that constituted a revised valuation for the px though, so the price should still stand. He had the “revised” cash deposit number (which he verbally confirmed had been updated) written down on a piece of paper. It will be a painful process I’m sure .

[jaytay68]

Monkeylegend said:

jaytay68 said:

hi guys,

will try to keep it short and factual, but just wanted to vent and see if anyone else had encountered this situation before

Ordered a new car for the Mrs from a franchised dealer in July, with an original expected delivery of Oct. Agreed px value of 25k against her current car, which was on finance but had around 7k equity in it. Order form signed by both parties. Inevitably car was delayed till Dec so we had made around 5 months worth of repayments on the current car.

Fast forward to collection day, and I was in a bit of a rush to collect the new car as I had to be somewhere. Had to put down remaining cash deposit for the finance + the part ex car. Didn't have the final numbers for the cash deposit to hand [which i am now kicking myself about] so asked the dealer if the cash deposit was revised to reflect the additional amounts we had paid off the existing agreement on the part ex, to which they replied "yes".

Anyway, get home and double check the numbers, and it turns out that was not the case.. I had overpaid as they had not taken into account the revised settlement figure.

Now, I contacted them about what i thought to be a simple mistake, and they tell me that "as we discussed" they had frozen the equity amount in the car and not the part exchange valuation of the car itself, so that "if the market would go either way you would be protected financially", and therefore they had reduced the px value to reflect "the agreed equity amount".

We absolutely did not discuss such a thing and I am demanding they either show me where this was documented or refund me the difference. Fact of the matter is, there is nothing in writing to support this - just a signed order form which confirms the part ex price of 25k - so I'm pretty positive I will get the money back. The part ex is still valued at the same it was in July, so feels like they are being totally underhand here, bordering on fraudulent.

WTF ?

Presumably you have added some miles as well so that would need to be taken into account?

Nothing more than fair mileage I would say. If the valuation had changed , then I would have had to agree / sign for it , no ?

[The Rotrex Kid]

Your word against theirs now OP. I expect your order form had the £25k on it but the settlement at the time the order was made (I.E showing the £7k equity?)

So they’ve kept the deal the same. You’re in the same financial position.

As I read it, you agreed a delivery date of October, so any payments you made between July-original delivery date are irrelevant, how many payments have you actually made over and above what you would have anyway, 1 or 2?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, you really should double check any financial paperwork before you sign and pay for anything!

[ChrisH72]

As you’ve only just taken delivery, can you not hand it back and cancel the deal?

[Ussrcossack]

Out time aside when collecting your car.

Minor for me but I wanted a tyre replacing like for like, wasn't done.

Found a car in the pitch with similar miles and tyre I wanted.

Excuse... No mechanic about to change, Me to sales rep... You do it... I'll try and get a mechanic. I can do it myself or I'll just walk away from deal.

Tyre changed.

Sorry for OP but folks get your cards in order always

[jaytay68]

The Rotrex Kid said:

Your word against theirs now OP. I expect your order form had the £25k on it but the settlement at the time the order was made (I.E showing the £7k equity?)

So they’ve kept the deal the same. You’re in the same financial position.

As I read it, you agreed a delivery date of October, so any payments you made between July-original delivery date are irrelevant, how many payments have you actually made over and above what you would have anyway, 1 or 2?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, you really should double check any financial paperwork before you sign and pay for anything!

Thanks. Interested in your view .. so are you saying this is normal practice ? I agreed to 25k for the car , and I expected 25k for the car - regardless of what I owed on it - unless we agreed otherwise in writing .

There is nothing on the order form that mentions valuation will be adjusted to ensure I am equity neutral so to speak, nor was it discussed

If I had owned the car outright , then I would have had to agree to a revised valuation - right. Btw the car value hadn’t gone down (at least not the wbac bid anyway).
M

Thanks

[Save Ferris]

Just to clarify, the finance/monthly payments are exactly what you expected them to be?

[The Rotrex Kid]

jaytay68 said:

The Rotrex Kid said:

Your word against theirs now OP. I expect your order form had the £25k on it but the settlement at the time the order was made (I.E showing the £7k equity?)

So they’ve kept the deal the same. You’re in the same financial position.

As I read it, you agreed a delivery date of October, so any payments you made between July-original delivery date are irrelevant, how many payments have you actually made over and above what you would have anyway, 1 or 2?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, you really should double check any financial paperwork before you sign and pay for anything!

Thanks. Interested in your view .. so are you saying this is normal practice ? I agreed to 25k for the car , and I expected 25k for the car - regardless of what I owed on it - unless we agreed otherwise in writing .

There is nothing on the order form that mentions valuation will be adjusted to ensure I am equity neutral so to speak, nor was it discussed

If I had owned the car outright , then I would have had to agree to a revised valuation - right. Btw the car value hadn’t gone down (at least not the wbac bid anyway).
M

Thanks

It’s normal practice when it’s agreed. We regularly agree an equity amount for a customer, they then get this whenever the car arrives, sometimes we win, sometimes we lose.

[jaytay68]

Save Ferris said:

Just to clarify, the finance/monthly payments are exactly what you expected them to be?

Yes they are the same as the total deposit is the same - i.e they have seemingly reduced the px value accordingly to keep equity unchanged (although this was not communicated nor documented anywhere it seems).

I see you are in car sales . Should this not have been communicated somewhere in writing ?

[AliMc99]

As Rotrex Kid says it is normally swings and roundabouts for the dealer (i.e normally your PX is depreciating monthly at a similar amount as your monthly PCP payment). Ultimately it will be down to how the original order form is phrased i.e are they promising you £7k equity deposit or £25k px?- even if £25k is mentioned that might be illustrative. If they are promising you a fixed PX value then you will still have come back even if you've collected your new car. Might be worth posting your order form (redacting the dealer and your pesonal info). Also as the OP's say you are no worse off vs your original deal- you've just not had the bonus of the unusual increase in used car prices. Also worth bearing in mind discounts on new cars right now have largely evaporated so in most cases the price to change has actually increased.

[rix]

Sounds pretty scammy to me. Don't get me wrong, I would potentially expect a further conversation about a revalorised PX given the delay but at that point you are able to say yes or no - wbac etc if it's out of kilter. If it was me I would be reacting in exactly the same way as sounds completely unreasonable.

[Bemmer]

YET ANOTHER NEW poster registered TODAY....! With some more DRAMA... TROLL IMO....

[Pistonheader101]

Bemmer said:

YET ANOTHER NEW poster registered TODAY....! With some more DRAMA... TROLL IMO....

Calm down dear

People sign up to forums to get advice

[Save Ferris]

jaytay68 said:

Yes they are the same as the total deposit is the same - i.e they have seemingly reduced the px value accordingly to keep equity unchanged (although this was not communicated nor documented anywhere it seems).

I see you are in car sales . Should this not have been communicated somewhere in writing ?

This is a fairly normal scenario if I’m honest, we would make it clear (verbally) that the figures you were agreeing to (the deposit and monthly payment) will not change. Your settlement and PX value will always change, especially with the long lead times on all new cars at the moment.

We are currently maintaining equity on cars for delivery next Autumn, it’s a gamble that we have to take at the moment!

This all sounds like a lack of communication to me, and they just assumed you understood that some of the numbers on the order form would change, but the deposit and monthly’s were fixed.

[jaytay68]

Save Ferris said:

jaytay68 said:

Yes they are the same as the total deposit is the same - i.e they have seemingly reduced the px value accordingly to keep equity unchanged (although this was not communicated nor documented anywhere it seems).

I see you are in car sales . Should this not have been communicated somewhere in writing ?

This is a fairly normal scenario if I’m honest, we would make it clear (verbally) that the figures you were agreeing to (the deposit and monthly payment) will not change. Your settlement and PX value will always change, especially with the long lead times on all new cars at the moment.

We are currently maintaining equity on cars for delivery next Autumn, it’s a gamble that we have to take at the moment!

This all sounds like a lack of communication to me, and they just assumed you understood that some of the numbers on the order form would change, but the deposit and monthly’s were fixed.

Thanks. The concept of an equity lock makes total sense with the long lead times. In our case the car we ordered only had a 2 month lead time (but was subsequently delayed till Dec). Again, this was not discussed with us at any point during the ordering process… hence I was expecting to be paid the 25k we agreed less the final finance settlement figure.

Had it been agreed then it wouldn’t have been such a shock and I would have accepted it and moved on. I still struggle to understand how arrangements like this are not documented since now it’s a case of our word against theirs.

[Sheepshanks]

jaytay68 said:

Fast forward to collection day, and I was in a bit of a rush to collect the new car as I had to be somewhere.

Obviously I don't know anything about your situation but picking up a new car while against the clock is asking for trouble. Last one I collected (with daughter) took 2.5hrs, and that was a cash deal. Daughter was losing the will to live, and the car was for her.

I've used PCP a couple of times to take advantage of deposit contributions etc and both times (different makes) the dealer insisted on the finance docs being signed a couple of days before collection - I checked and was assured that this is normal. Did that not happen in your case? You'd have had time to see the difference.

[AliMc99]

I'd have expected either the equity and/or the PX value to have been documented on some of the paperwork. If not you could ask to have your old car back so you can sell it yourself (e.g to WBAC)