True cost of ownership
Discussion
Is anyone aware of any web pages, calculators, links to excel S/S that help build a picture of the trust ownership costs of specific cars (depreciation, av service costs, av repair costs etc)?
Keen to do this so I can get an accurate picture of buying used vs. Lease / PCP offers.
Thanks!
Keen to do this so I can get an accurate picture of buying used vs. Lease / PCP offers.
Thanks!
Just knock up your own spreadsheet, don't need anything fancy.
Work out approx depreciation via Autotrader ads, look up the cost of tyres on BlackCircles, couple of hundred quid for each service, prices of extending manufacturer warranty on a nearly new car should be easily available, get price of brake discs/pads from sites like EuroCarParts or AutoDoc (on the off chance they are silly money). Tax costs should be easily looked up for a random example of the car you are interested in. The only routine service item worth calculating is a cambelt/chain change - again google the approx cost for that model.
Insurance and fuel should be similar enough not to worry about.
I don't think you can budget for breakdowns or major failures. I suspect anything big (outside of warranty) will just swing the needle in favour of a lease anyway.
I did the actual sums on the costs of running a Volvo from 3 years old for 4 years (60k to 120k miles) and it averaged around £250 a month, versus £310 for a lease on a brand new V60.
Work out approx depreciation via Autotrader ads, look up the cost of tyres on BlackCircles, couple of hundred quid for each service, prices of extending manufacturer warranty on a nearly new car should be easily available, get price of brake discs/pads from sites like EuroCarParts or AutoDoc (on the off chance they are silly money). Tax costs should be easily looked up for a random example of the car you are interested in. The only routine service item worth calculating is a cambelt/chain change - again google the approx cost for that model.
Insurance and fuel should be similar enough not to worry about.
I don't think you can budget for breakdowns or major failures. I suspect anything big (outside of warranty) will just swing the needle in favour of a lease anyway.
I did the actual sums on the costs of running a Volvo from 3 years old for 4 years (60k to 120k miles) and it averaged around £250 a month, versus £310 for a lease on a brand new V60.
As suggested above, it's probably easiest to make up your own spreadsheet to account for the things that are individual to your needs.
Personally, I look at:
- Gross cost: all cash payments to buy and run a vehicle; this tells me what the cashflow impact is
- Net cost: less the sale proceeds at the end; this favours low depreciation
- Absolute cost: as above, but with the cost to own or replace the vehicle considered; this is often overlooked and tends to justify long term ownership
Different vehicles and different funding methods (borrowing, cash, leasing) have very different effects on each of these three. I think people commonly look at gross costs, which tends to flatter PCP or leasing, though forget the other two.
I own three vehicles outright ranging 4-9 years old. These have quite steep gross costs owing to maintenance, though do much better than new(er) cars bought on finance on net and absolute costs.
Personally, I look at:
- Gross cost: all cash payments to buy and run a vehicle; this tells me what the cashflow impact is
- Net cost: less the sale proceeds at the end; this favours low depreciation
- Absolute cost: as above, but with the cost to own or replace the vehicle considered; this is often overlooked and tends to justify long term ownership
Different vehicles and different funding methods (borrowing, cash, leasing) have very different effects on each of these three. I think people commonly look at gross costs, which tends to flatter PCP or leasing, though forget the other two.
I own three vehicles outright ranging 4-9 years old. These have quite steep gross costs owing to maintenance, though do much better than new(er) cars bought on finance on net and absolute costs.
Pica-Pica said:
Depreciation is the tricky one...
Depends on the car. If you are buying a Ford Focus, there are literally thousands of other Focuses for sale where you can work out how much it will be worth after X years and Y miles.
If it is some rare new sports car, something like the Alpine A110 that has no direct competitor to guage against then you are going to have to guess and no spreadsheet is going to help you find the correct answer.
Have done it on a few previous cars.
Actual, non bias, costings.
Found it's going to cost around £300 per month for a car. Whether that's a well maintained shed or a new lease, it's always around £300 for average stuff.
I do only tend to keep cars a year at the most which raised the cost somewhat.
Actual, non bias, costings.
Found it's going to cost around £300 per month for a car. Whether that's a well maintained shed or a new lease, it's always around £300 for average stuff.
I do only tend to keep cars a year at the most which raised the cost somewhat.
Edited by Rick101 on Saturday 1st January 09:19
I often do this retrospectively.
So for a car I have owned I’d calculate…..
Depreciation
Fuel
Maintenance
Tax
Insurance
Then divide that by however many months I owned the car.
So for example my previous car was a BMW e92 325i which I bought at 6 years old and 40k miles. I ran it for 3 years and covered another 24k in it. This is roughly how it went.
Depreciation £5k
Fuel £4K
Maintenance £4K
Tax £800
Insurance £1k
So just short of £15k over 3 years or £416 per month.
Current car is a 2017 Fiesta ST3 which I’ve had 18 months and covered 6k miles.
At the moment it’s cost me around £3k or £166 per month total so working out a lot cheaper than the Beemer so far!
So for a car I have owned I’d calculate…..
Depreciation
Fuel
Maintenance
Tax
Insurance
Then divide that by however many months I owned the car.
So for example my previous car was a BMW e92 325i which I bought at 6 years old and 40k miles. I ran it for 3 years and covered another 24k in it. This is roughly how it went.
Depreciation £5k
Fuel £4K
Maintenance £4K
Tax £800
Insurance £1k
So just short of £15k over 3 years or £416 per month.
Current car is a 2017 Fiesta ST3 which I’ve had 18 months and covered 6k miles.
At the moment it’s cost me around £3k or £166 per month total so working out a lot cheaper than the Beemer so far!
The last two years have been a strange period in that mileage has shrunk, meaning that all fixed costs end up looking more expensive per mile. Whereas used values are strong, meaning depreciation looks better than it otherwise would be.
The spreadsheet I keep puts together a rough TCO, but it works from hardcoded annual costs for insurance and tax, and derives fuel cost from mpg and current £/l. This makes life slightly easier than having to record every petrol receipt.
The spreadsheet I keep puts together a rough TCO, but it works from hardcoded annual costs for insurance and tax, and derives fuel cost from mpg and current £/l. This makes life slightly easier than having to record every petrol receipt.
nd0000 said:
The last two years have been a strange period in that mileage has shrunk, meaning that all fixed costs end up looking more expensive per mile. Whereas used values are strong, meaning depreciation looks better than it otherwise would be.
Absolutely. This is the kind of thing that makes predicting cost very difficult.If you’d told me 2 years ago that my car use would be cut by 50% I wouldn’t have believed it possible. And obviously most used cars have suffered very little depreciation, in fact some have gone the other way. With hindsight I should’ve bought a brand new Civic type r on pcp 2 years ago rather than a used fiesta and I would have been quids in now!
Here is mine - all owned outright so no finance costs.
2017 Mercedes E220d
Yearly Miles 8000
Av MPG 49
Litres Used 751.02
Cost Litre £1.40
Fuel £1051.43
Depreciation £1000
Tax £450
Insurance £350.00
Service £480.00 (Service Plan)
Consumables £200.00
Running Cost £3531.43
Monthly £294.29
2012 Mercedes E500
Yearly Miles 4000
Av MPG 26
Litres Used 707.69
Cost Litre £1.42
Fuel £1004.92
Depreciation £500
Tax £325.00
Insurance £358.00
Service £396.00 (Service Plan)
Consumables £300.00
Warranty £495.00 (Mercedes Tier1 Warranty)
Annual Cost £3378.92
Monthly £281.58
.... and the Motorhome which has increased in value this year so has turned out to be very cheap. Really though, if use proper man maths as this should come out of the travel and tourism budget not motoring!
2018 Hymer Exsis
Yearly Miles 8000
Av MPG 29
Litres Used 1268.97
Cost Litre £1.42
Fuel £1801.93
Depreciation -£2000
Tax £265
Insurance £350.00
Service £400.00
Consumables £200.00
Storage £720.00
Running Cost £1736.93
Monthly £144.74
2017 Mercedes E220d
Yearly Miles 8000
Av MPG 49
Litres Used 751.02
Cost Litre £1.40
Fuel £1051.43
Depreciation £1000
Tax £450
Insurance £350.00
Service £480.00 (Service Plan)
Consumables £200.00
Running Cost £3531.43
Monthly £294.29
2012 Mercedes E500
Yearly Miles 4000
Av MPG 26
Litres Used 707.69
Cost Litre £1.42
Fuel £1004.92
Depreciation £500
Tax £325.00
Insurance £358.00
Service £396.00 (Service Plan)
Consumables £300.00
Warranty £495.00 (Mercedes Tier1 Warranty)
Annual Cost £3378.92
Monthly £281.58
.... and the Motorhome which has increased in value this year so has turned out to be very cheap. Really though, if use proper man maths as this should come out of the travel and tourism budget not motoring!
2018 Hymer Exsis
Yearly Miles 8000
Av MPG 29
Litres Used 1268.97
Cost Litre £1.42
Fuel £1801.93
Depreciation -£2000
Tax £265
Insurance £350.00
Service £400.00
Consumables £200.00
Storage £720.00
Running Cost £1736.93
Monthly £144.74
The Cardinal said:
Different vehicles and different funding methods (borrowing, cash, leasing) have very different effects on each of these three. I think people commonly look at gross costs, which tends to flatter PCP or leasing, though forget the other two.
I own three vehicles outright ranging 4-9 years old. These have quite steep gross costs owing to maintenance, though do much better than new(er) cars bought on finance on net and absolute costs.
Edited by nickfrog on Friday 31st December 17:06
There's this website, which makes a game attempt to pull out tax and fuel costs based on a registration number:
https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/everyday-money/b...
Maintenance costs are really difficult to model. Sometimes I've bought cars that have a significant backlog of work required to bring them into a sustainable well maintained state. Sometimes an exit strategy is to stop caring about minor issues ("bangernomics"). If you can do work yourself then should you account for your own labour? etc
https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/everyday-money/b...
Maintenance costs are really difficult to model. Sometimes I've bought cars that have a significant backlog of work required to bring them into a sustainable well maintained state. Sometimes an exit strategy is to stop caring about minor issues ("bangernomics"). If you can do work yourself then should you account for your own labour? etc
Truckosaurus said:
Pica-Pica said:
Depreciation is the tricky one...
Depends on the car. If you are buying a Ford Focus, there are literally thousands of other Focuses for sale where you can work out how much it will be worth after X years and Y miles.
If it is some rare new sports car, something like the Alpine A110 that has no direct competitor to guage against then you are going to have to guess and no spreadsheet is going to help you find the correct answer.
mhulks said:
Is anyone aware of any web pages, calculators, links to excel S/S that help build a picture of the trust ownership costs of specific cars (depreciation, av service costs, av repair costs etc)?
Keen to do this so I can get an accurate picture of buying used vs. Lease / PCP offers.
Thanks!
No spreadsheet required. By used, low mileage, depreciation already knocked out of it and pay cash. Good quality older stuff is reliable. Forget the image game, latest product and aspirational stuff. Lease and PCP will be more expensive. Keen to do this so I can get an accurate picture of buying used vs. Lease / PCP offers.
Thanks!
Ignore anyone on here who tries to tell you otherwise with meaningless and non relevant specific personal examples.
The biggest question is how long you plan to keep the car.
If it's three years then your sums are easy! Most cars depreciate by about half of their purchase cost in the first three years.
If you want to get fancy, expensive options generally depreciate faster than the basic car to which they are attached.
If it's three years then your sums are easy! Most cars depreciate by about half of their purchase cost in the first three years.
If you want to get fancy, expensive options generally depreciate faster than the basic car to which they are attached.
Throttlebody said:
No spreadsheet required. By used, low mileage, depreciation already knocked out of it and pay cash. Good quality older stuff is reliable. Forget the image game, latest product and aspirational stuff. Lease and PCP will be more expensive.
Ignore anyone on here who tries to tell you otherwise with meaningless and non relevant specific personal examples.
Yes, listen to the person that says don't bother with that silly little system called maths Ignore anyone on here who tries to tell you otherwise with meaningless and non relevant specific personal examples.
Right method or not, the man asked about calculating costs not the ever boring discussion about who is the richest because they have the most knackered old car.
Edited by Rick101 on Saturday 1st January 09:21
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