What can I do?
Discussion
Leading on slightly from BliarOut's thread on divorce etc, Sorry but this could be a long post.
I'm really confused as to what to do about my daughter at the moment. To give a bit of background...
Her mother and I were never married, but we intentionally brought her into the world, after about 1.5-2 years her mother decided she wanted out of the relationship and went about it in a rather nasty manner, lies to everyone etc. Things got pretty extreme (no I didn't beat her mum up! but was on the receiving end of some DV) and I felt I had to take her to court to ensure that I would have some form of right to play a part in my daughters life (her mother got engaged to someone fairly quickly after our separation so I was concerned about name changes etc.) I was duly granted Parental Responsibility (which she opposed) and for the following 7 or so years, I've had regular access (bi-weekly) to my daughter despite her mother moving a considerable distance away. As far as payments towards my daughter are concerned, these have been sorted out between us based upon how much I have been able to afford to pay, she started threatening me with the CSA once or twice but gave up when I suggested that she might find she got less via that route than I was already giving her (I wasn't exactly stingy).
Anyway, things went on with an uneasy sort of truce and my daughter seemed happy to visit at weekends and some school holiday times, she got on well with her half brothers and seemed to be pretty well adjusted considering she was from a broken home as it were.
However, for the past year, her mother and new bloke (after numerous others and 1 divorce) have been working in Moscow (they are both teachers and now seem to have decided to work in International schools), I was understandably (IMHO) quite upset about this and stated that if my daughter decided that she wasn't happy then I would expect something to be done about her return to the UK, even if that meant her living with my wife and I. Equally so, I would expect reasonable access when she came home on holiday.
Subsequently, my ex and her bloke have decided that they are now moving to Bombay, something I am even less pleased about. Not least because, after having our access to my daughter cut short at the whim of her mother, my daughter upon finding out, burst into tears and told me that she didn't want to go away and wanted to be able to see me and the rest of her family on a regular basis again. She's 11 in November.
I really don't know what to do, my previous experience of taking legal advice was less than impressive, in that I had to tell them what I wanted having researched things via websites like Families Need Fathers. I don't know whether I have any rights to do anything under the circumstances (the FNF website doesn't seem to have anything encouraging to say), I don't know whether it would do any good or just make things worse.
Anyone have any experience here? But having already attempted to talk to my ex about it, I doubt negotiation is an option.
Thanks.
I'm really confused as to what to do about my daughter at the moment. To give a bit of background...
Her mother and I were never married, but we intentionally brought her into the world, after about 1.5-2 years her mother decided she wanted out of the relationship and went about it in a rather nasty manner, lies to everyone etc. Things got pretty extreme (no I didn't beat her mum up! but was on the receiving end of some DV) and I felt I had to take her to court to ensure that I would have some form of right to play a part in my daughters life (her mother got engaged to someone fairly quickly after our separation so I was concerned about name changes etc.) I was duly granted Parental Responsibility (which she opposed) and for the following 7 or so years, I've had regular access (bi-weekly) to my daughter despite her mother moving a considerable distance away. As far as payments towards my daughter are concerned, these have been sorted out between us based upon how much I have been able to afford to pay, she started threatening me with the CSA once or twice but gave up when I suggested that she might find she got less via that route than I was already giving her (I wasn't exactly stingy).
Anyway, things went on with an uneasy sort of truce and my daughter seemed happy to visit at weekends and some school holiday times, she got on well with her half brothers and seemed to be pretty well adjusted considering she was from a broken home as it were.
However, for the past year, her mother and new bloke (after numerous others and 1 divorce) have been working in Moscow (they are both teachers and now seem to have decided to work in International schools), I was understandably (IMHO) quite upset about this and stated that if my daughter decided that she wasn't happy then I would expect something to be done about her return to the UK, even if that meant her living with my wife and I. Equally so, I would expect reasonable access when she came home on holiday.
Subsequently, my ex and her bloke have decided that they are now moving to Bombay, something I am even less pleased about. Not least because, after having our access to my daughter cut short at the whim of her mother, my daughter upon finding out, burst into tears and told me that she didn't want to go away and wanted to be able to see me and the rest of her family on a regular basis again. She's 11 in November.
I really don't know what to do, my previous experience of taking legal advice was less than impressive, in that I had to tell them what I wanted having researched things via websites like Families Need Fathers. I don't know whether I have any rights to do anything under the circumstances (the FNF website doesn't seem to have anything encouraging to say), I don't know whether it would do any good or just make things worse.
Anyone have any experience here? But having already attempted to talk to my ex about it, I doubt negotiation is an option.
Thanks.
How is the realtionship between your daughters mother,daughter and latest stepfather,i have a son of 11 and because of one thing or another we dont see each other as much as we would like to however my exwife,son,stepfather and their daughter have a great family unit,the stepfather is one heck of a good stepfather to my son and although i might only see my son once a month i know he is in good hands.
Even after the biggest time gaps apart my son still tells me he loves me and vice versa,this may not be any consolation to you at this time but they never forget there real parents.
Even after the biggest time gaps apart my son still tells me he loves me and vice versa,this may not be any consolation to you at this time but they never forget there real parents.
I'm no expert on this one but I'd have thought law (or maybe social services) is the only way to go, and they will decide who gets custody based on what's best for the child. Shipping an 11-year-old girl to India - perhaps against her will? - doesn't seem to be in her interests at all.
I cant offer advice, but I hope things work out for both of you. I moved all over the world growing up, although I settled in ok, leaving was never easy. Being seperated from family was awful. Ive never had a family, as such, and hope whatever the outcome she is happy and feels secure, and goes through as little pain and turmoil as possible.
From what I've seen of him, he seems a reasonable chap and my daughter seems to like him. The issue here is that I can empathise with my daughter if she is unhappy about living in another country having spent a fair chunk of my childhood in Africa and hating virtually every minute of it, despite the fact that I loved my parents.
Equally so, the amount of access is getting less and less, I don't want to lose touch with her or for her to lose touch/miss out on her stepmother or half brothers either. It's not just about me or her for that matter, there are loads of people who miss her (on both sides of her family) and I'm painfully aware that her grandparents are not going to be around forever. Previously we didn't get a fair amount of access, but it was better that nothing and my wife and I made every effort to make sure that she saw the whole extended family on a semi-regular basis, this is just not practical when she lives in another country.
Equally so, the amount of access is getting less and less, I don't want to lose touch with her or for her to lose touch/miss out on her stepmother or half brothers either. It's not just about me or her for that matter, there are loads of people who miss her (on both sides of her family) and I'm painfully aware that her grandparents are not going to be around forever. Previously we didn't get a fair amount of access, but it was better that nothing and my wife and I made every effort to make sure that she saw the whole extended family on a semi-regular basis, this is just not practical when she lives in another country.
I guess I'll explore that avenue after a chat with my daughter again tonight, I don't want to go for the nuclear option only to find that when she really thinks about it she realises that she'd miss her mum too. She is only 11 after all, it's pretty hard for her to consider these kind of problems in the cold light of day (please excuse the cliche). All I want is for her to be happy and to have her respond in the way she did the other day was quite a shock.
TeamD, I don’t know if this helps but when I moved from Worcester to Suffolk (only 200miles I’ll grant you) we had to consider ex’s youngest who was 7 at the time. Her dad saw her every weekend almost and a few times during the week if he wanted to previously. With the move things were going to change.
Having spoken to him he was upset but thought that it was the best thing for her as her life style (and possible opportunities) would be moving up about 3 levels, she liked(s) me a lot, me having been around the last 2-3 years, and he considered that I was a good step-father. His daughter was also settled with he 2 half-brothers and was happy to move, although it meant she wouldn’t see daddy as often.
What we hit on was that she goes to stay with him during the summer holidays and, within reason, whenever it is convenient for all parties.
Just a thought.
Having spoken to him he was upset but thought that it was the best thing for her as her life style (and possible opportunities) would be moving up about 3 levels, she liked(s) me a lot, me having been around the last 2-3 years, and he considered that I was a good step-father. His daughter was also settled with he 2 half-brothers and was happy to move, although it meant she wouldn’t see daddy as often.
What we hit on was that she goes to stay with him during the summer holidays and, within reason, whenever it is convenient for all parties.
Just a thought.
Your story is so similar to mine, but mine has now reached a conclusion of sorts ...
My daughter is now 16; when she was 11 or so, my ex-gf and her new husband decided they wanted to emigrate to Australia. I had already applied to the courts for Parental Responsibility and been awarded it, against her wishes. I therefore, like you, had to either give my approval for the removal of my daughter from the jurisdiction, or let the courts decide.
For many reasons, I objected to her removal, so the wheels were put in motion. The courts put great emphasis on a report from a CAFCASS officer, who interviews both parents and the child. Rather unfairly I thought, in my case the officer interviewed Adrienne alone and then with her mother, whereas he only ever interviewed me alone.
Adrienne had been filled with all kinds of crap about Australia, so she was excited about going there, which obviously came across in her interview. The CAFCASS report basically recommended that the court allow her removal, despite my excellent relationship with her (every weekend with me, several holidays a year, etc.)
In discussions with my solicitor, she advised that it was highly unlikely that the judge would decide against the CAFCASS officer. Just didn't happen then (things may be different now; see below). I therefore made the decision that I had already spent thousands on this, and spending more for a full day hearing didn't really make much sense. I could put the money saved towards airfares; I therefore, reluctantly and through gritted teeth, gave my consent.
The move completely messed up her schooling; they lasted 7 months before returning as they hated Australia; they lasted a further 7 months here before going back to Oz as they couldn't stand it here! Poor kid's on her 5th high school ...
Clearly, my relationship isn't the same with her, although we both try our best. I'd love to get hold of the CAFCASS officer and the judge and show them the damage that their decisions can cause.
Things may be different now though. A mate was going through *exactly* the same trauma as me only last year. Whether he was lucky, whether the system has changed, or whether he had something on the judge
I don't know, but he went for a full hearing and the judge refused permission for the removal of his daughter.
If they're determined to go, negotiation won't work. Your only option is to refuse permission, and then fight it all the way. I really regret not having my day in court, even though I know I couldn't have stopped it.
Don't know if this answered any of your questions, but good luck and fight it
My daughter is now 16; when she was 11 or so, my ex-gf and her new husband decided they wanted to emigrate to Australia. I had already applied to the courts for Parental Responsibility and been awarded it, against her wishes. I therefore, like you, had to either give my approval for the removal of my daughter from the jurisdiction, or let the courts decide.
For many reasons, I objected to her removal, so the wheels were put in motion. The courts put great emphasis on a report from a CAFCASS officer, who interviews both parents and the child. Rather unfairly I thought, in my case the officer interviewed Adrienne alone and then with her mother, whereas he only ever interviewed me alone.
Adrienne had been filled with all kinds of crap about Australia, so she was excited about going there, which obviously came across in her interview. The CAFCASS report basically recommended that the court allow her removal, despite my excellent relationship with her (every weekend with me, several holidays a year, etc.)
In discussions with my solicitor, she advised that it was highly unlikely that the judge would decide against the CAFCASS officer. Just didn't happen then (things may be different now; see below). I therefore made the decision that I had already spent thousands on this, and spending more for a full day hearing didn't really make much sense. I could put the money saved towards airfares; I therefore, reluctantly and through gritted teeth, gave my consent.
The move completely messed up her schooling; they lasted 7 months before returning as they hated Australia; they lasted a further 7 months here before going back to Oz as they couldn't stand it here! Poor kid's on her 5th high school ...
Clearly, my relationship isn't the same with her, although we both try our best. I'd love to get hold of the CAFCASS officer and the judge and show them the damage that their decisions can cause.
Things may be different now though. A mate was going through *exactly* the same trauma as me only last year. Whether he was lucky, whether the system has changed, or whether he had something on the judge
I don't know, but he went for a full hearing and the judge refused permission for the removal of his daughter. If they're determined to go, negotiation won't work. Your only option is to refuse permission, and then fight it all the way. I really regret not having my day in court, even though I know I couldn't have stopped it.
Don't know if this answered any of your questions, but good luck and fight it
Thanks for the feedback Rude-boy
Part of the problem is the deal I thought we'd come to pre-Moscow wasn't honoured, I really don't think that 4 days at Christmas and 12 days in the Summer hols is much access at all. But first and foremost I want my little girl to be happy, if she is, then all well and good, I'll take what I can get and try to be happy myself. But if she isn't happy, I need to find out what I can do about it, because as said earlier, this isn't about me, but the welfare of my child. I've long since got over the urge to try and get custody or any such thing, men don't stand a chance in this country, but equally so, I don't treat her like a possession to guarded jealously, as it strikes me her mother does on occassions such as this. 
Part of the problem is the deal I thought we'd come to pre-Moscow wasn't honoured, I really don't think that 4 days at Christmas and 12 days in the Summer hols is much access at all. But first and foremost I want my little girl to be happy, if she is, then all well and good, I'll take what I can get and try to be happy myself. But if she isn't happy, I need to find out what I can do about it, because as said earlier, this isn't about me, but the welfare of my child. I've long since got over the urge to try and get custody or any such thing, men don't stand a chance in this country, but equally so, I don't treat her like a possession to guarded jealously, as it strikes me her mother does on occassions such as this.
Shit, wot a mes.
I remember the commutes from London to Bristol, but hell London to Bombay, that's an aweful treck.
Can't really offer a way forward, and obviously don't know how much L can really comprehend all of this.
But still, you have to consider that in this day and age there is a lot more open in terms of web cams for maintaining some contact with your daughter if she's on the other side of the planet. I do know it's not the best of soultions.
I guess you also need to consider the opportunity to block the abillity of the 'hippyone' to even take her out of the country. And I guess it really boils down to the fact of you trusting her to look after your daughter for the next 5-7 years with little input from you.
No doubt you'll remember me saying there will come a time when your daughter can make her own decisions as to where she wants to be and who she wants to be with.
I'd suggest that given your love for her she'll certainly see you as being supportive and doing your best in her interests.
So maybe the question really boils down to can you live the next few years without much contact?
I believe she'll 'get over' what ever decision you take. My advice would me make your decision on how you feel, not on how you think L will feel.
To add: Having no children, I really am not qualified to comment on this subject, I can only see it from a practical POV.
best
Ex
I remember the commutes from London to Bristol, but hell London to Bombay, that's an aweful treck.
Can't really offer a way forward, and obviously don't know how much L can really comprehend all of this.
But still, you have to consider that in this day and age there is a lot more open in terms of web cams for maintaining some contact with your daughter if she's on the other side of the planet. I do know it's not the best of soultions.
I guess you also need to consider the opportunity to block the abillity of the 'hippyone' to even take her out of the country. And I guess it really boils down to the fact of you trusting her to look after your daughter for the next 5-7 years with little input from you.
No doubt you'll remember me saying there will come a time when your daughter can make her own decisions as to where she wants to be and who she wants to be with.
I'd suggest that given your love for her she'll certainly see you as being supportive and doing your best in her interests.
So maybe the question really boils down to can you live the next few years without much contact?
I believe she'll 'get over' what ever decision you take. My advice would me make your decision on how you feel, not on how you think L will feel.
To add: Having no children, I really am not qualified to comment on this subject, I can only see it from a practical POV.
best
Ex
It's a tough one alright.
Not least would be the reorganisation I'd have to implement just to make it all happen, considering that I live in London Monday to Friday, whereas the wife and kids live in the Midlands, I've got options but they're not my preferred ones.
I guess part of this would be about making a stand, inasmuch the PR thing was, to demonstrate that I am serious about my kid and that her wellbeing is paramount to me, not to be confused with the urge to drag her around the world on a jolly whether she likes it or not.
The best I can assess at the moment is that L is confused, she's seen what she has been missing out on for the past year, bearing in mind that the youngest was only 1 and a bit when she left for Moscow, things have changed a bit in her absence, okay, she still has a room in the house, her friends and family are still here, but things have moved on and I think this is a bit unsettling for her. But I can also understand that it's a bit artificial because she's effectively on holiday, not living the day to day life that she would if she was here for a longer period of time.
All I can do is ask L again and take it from there. I just find it hard to grasp the fact that her mum can be so venomous and generally unpleasant after such a long period of time, it's not like I chose to leave them, or is it because I refused to give her the house do you think, Ex?
Not least would be the reorganisation I'd have to implement just to make it all happen, considering that I live in London Monday to Friday, whereas the wife and kids live in the Midlands, I've got options but they're not my preferred ones.
I guess part of this would be about making a stand, inasmuch the PR thing was, to demonstrate that I am serious about my kid and that her wellbeing is paramount to me, not to be confused with the urge to drag her around the world on a jolly whether she likes it or not.
The best I can assess at the moment is that L is confused, she's seen what she has been missing out on for the past year, bearing in mind that the youngest was only 1 and a bit when she left for Moscow, things have changed a bit in her absence, okay, she still has a room in the house, her friends and family are still here, but things have moved on and I think this is a bit unsettling for her. But I can also understand that it's a bit artificial because she's effectively on holiday, not living the day to day life that she would if she was here for a longer period of time.
All I can do is ask L again and take it from there. I just find it hard to grasp the fact that her mum can be so venomous and generally unpleasant after such a long period of time, it's not like I chose to leave them, or is it because I refused to give her the house do you think, Ex?
TeamD said:
I've long since got over the urge to try and get custody or any such thing, men don't stand a chance in this country, but equally so, I don't treat her like a possession to guarded jealously, as it strikes me her mother does on occassions such as this.
Oh I don't know. My father had sole custody of us and that was awarded back in 1972. Also my girls live with me 50% of the time. What with all this equality malarky and FFJ etc. single dads are getting a better deal.... But it is VERY slow progress and I'm sure there are a million tales of heartache for every good outcome.
I hope it works out well for you.
Another thing that concerns me (I'm not trying to be flippant here) is that Bombay is likely to be a disease ridden swamp for a while yet anyway, I can't see it being healthy dragging a young kid over there. It's one thing for an adult to voluntarily expose themselves to risk but it's not the action of a responsible parent to endanger their children this way.
My mind is made up, if her mother won't see reason then I'll see to it the courts establish what is in the best interests of my child.
My mind is made up, if her mother won't see reason then I'll see to it the courts establish what is in the best interests of my child.
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