Petrol station - no payment drive off notice
Discussion
Hi,
I received a drive off notice for no payment in the post, from an ANPR company called 'VARS Technology', for sub £10 (I filled a jerry can with petrol)
Thought that was weird so checked my credit card statement for the day it happened & it appeared there was some sort of payment error, with the garage only charging me £1.
I went back to the garage, explained things, paid & got a receipt. The garage took a copy of the No Payment notice & stated they would sort it, & I've also emailed VARS on their online contact-us form explaining events.
I just wondered if there is anything else I should be doing?
The notice makes reference to it being a criminal offence to drive off without paying for fuel, that the amount owed increases after 14 days etc etc. I know these companies can be a bit shifty & I'd rather not make the mistake of thinking it's an obvious error & is sorted, & then end up with court proceedings/debt collectors or similar.
I received a drive off notice for no payment in the post, from an ANPR company called 'VARS Technology', for sub £10 (I filled a jerry can with petrol)
Thought that was weird so checked my credit card statement for the day it happened & it appeared there was some sort of payment error, with the garage only charging me £1.
I went back to the garage, explained things, paid & got a receipt. The garage took a copy of the No Payment notice & stated they would sort it, & I've also emailed VARS on their online contact-us form explaining events.
I just wondered if there is anything else I should be doing?
The notice makes reference to it being a criminal offence to drive off without paying for fuel, that the amount owed increases after 14 days etc etc. I know these companies can be a bit shifty & I'd rather not make the mistake of thinking it's an obvious error & is sorted, & then end up with court proceedings/debt collectors or similar.
DaveCWK said:
The notice makes reference to it being a criminal offence to drive off without paying for fuel
It is only a criminal offence to drive off without paying if you went in to fill up with no intention to pay.Driving off after forgetting to pay isn't a criminal offence, only a civil matter between you and the garage. This is why the police have little interest in drive-offs - low value crime and where it is hard to prove a crime has actually been committed.
This happens a lot, normally when people have big baskets of shopping. They are asked at the till if any fuel and often reply ‘no’. On a busy forecourt and if they have moved off the pump it is almost impossible for the cashier to know. Only when it quietens down and there is an unpaid fuel transaction is it realised.
CCTV is used to find the vehicle and the occupants and trace them to the till. The electronic till journal can pinpoint the sale and if fuel has been paid for.
If not then the vehicle details are put into an online form and submitted to a company who then deals with it. The company will get the registered details from the DVLA and write to the registered keeper with a polite request to return and pay for the fuel.
When the RK returns to the garage and pays, the person in charge then updates the online system that the bill is paid and that is that.
It is exactly the same process for a genuine drive off where NO attempt has been made to pay. The company that the oil company uses then decides if it is a crime (cloned plates, doctored plates etc etc) and contacts the relevant Police force who then write to the RK or pay them a visit.
I would imagine that the oil companies pretty much use the same company to do this legwork so they can build a database of regular non payers, only then would it become a crime as intent would probably be proven.
CCTV is used to find the vehicle and the occupants and trace them to the till. The electronic till journal can pinpoint the sale and if fuel has been paid for.
If not then the vehicle details are put into an online form and submitted to a company who then deals with it. The company will get the registered details from the DVLA and write to the registered keeper with a polite request to return and pay for the fuel.
When the RK returns to the garage and pays, the person in charge then updates the online system that the bill is paid and that is that.
It is exactly the same process for a genuine drive off where NO attempt has been made to pay. The company that the oil company uses then decides if it is a crime (cloned plates, doctored plates etc etc) and contacts the relevant Police force who then write to the RK or pay them a visit.
I would imagine that the oil companies pretty much use the same company to do this legwork so they can build a database of regular non payers, only then would it become a crime as intent would probably be proven.
vonhosen said:
Just because a notice references a criminal offence it doesn't mean that one has taken place, anymore so than if you'd ordered a meal & then realised you'd lost your wallet when it came to pay for it. It's just bluster. You settle what you owe & that's it.
Funny that, when the late wife's card didn't go thru a few years ago (user or operator error?) letter in the post off the plod within a week. As alluded to further up thread plod generally don't give a fook now.
speedyguy said:
vonhosen said:
Just because a notice references a criminal offence it doesn't mean that one has taken place, anymore so than if you'd ordered a meal & then realised you'd lost your wallet when it came to pay for it. It's just bluster. You settle what you owe & that's it.
Funny that, when the late wife's card didn't go thru a few years ago (user or operator error?) letter in the post off the plod within a week. As alluded to further up thread plod generally don't give a fook now.
zetec said:
This happens a lot, normally when people have big baskets of shopping. They are asked at the till if any fuel and often reply ‘no’. On a busy forecourt and if they have moved off the pump it is almost impossible for the cashier to know. Only when it quietens down and there is an unpaid fuel transaction is it realised.
CCTV is used to find the vehicle and the occupants and trace them to the till. The electronic till journal can pinpoint the sale and if fuel has been paid for.
If not then the vehicle details are put into an online form and submitted to a company who then deals with it. The company will get the registered details from the DVLA and write to the registered keeper with a polite request to return and pay for the fuel.
When the RK returns to the garage and pays, the person in charge then updates the online system that the bill is paid and that is that.
It is exactly the same process for a genuine drive off where NO attempt has been made to pay. The company that the oil company uses then decides if it is a crime (cloned plates, doctored plates etc etc) and contacts the relevant Police force who then write to the RK or pay them a visit.
I would imagine that the oil companies pretty much use the same company to do this legwork so they can build a database of regular non payers, only then would it become a crime as intent would probably be proven.
The company employed by the garages to chase the debts also get their cut of the repayment. CCTV is used to find the vehicle and the occupants and trace them to the till. The electronic till journal can pinpoint the sale and if fuel has been paid for.
If not then the vehicle details are put into an online form and submitted to a company who then deals with it. The company will get the registered details from the DVLA and write to the registered keeper with a polite request to return and pay for the fuel.
When the RK returns to the garage and pays, the person in charge then updates the online system that the bill is paid and that is that.
It is exactly the same process for a genuine drive off where NO attempt has been made to pay. The company that the oil company uses then decides if it is a crime (cloned plates, doctored plates etc etc) and contacts the relevant Police force who then write to the RK or pay them a visit.
I would imagine that the oil companies pretty much use the same company to do this legwork so they can build a database of regular non payers, only then would it become a crime as intent would probably be proven.
vonhosen said:
speedyguy said:
vonhosen said:
Just because a notice references a criminal offence it doesn't mean that one has taken place, anymore so than if you'd ordered a meal & then realised you'd lost your wallet when it came to pay for it. It's just bluster. You settle what you owe & that's it.
Funny that, when the late wife's card didn't go thru a few years ago (user or operator error?) letter in the post off the plod within a week. As alluded to further up thread plod generally don't give a fook now.
Either they get involved or they don't?
I don't think they'd bother nowadays.
That's why it's contracted out?
zetec said:
The company that the oil company uses then decides if it is a crime (cloned plates, doctored plates etc etc) and contacts the relevant Police force who then write to the RK or pay them a visit.
I would imagine that the oil companies pretty much use the same company to do this legwork so they can build a database of regular non payers, only then would it become a crime as intent would probably be proven.
The issue is that a significant number (if not the majority) of filling stations in the UK which are branded up as being operated by X, Y, or Z major oil company are not actually owned and operated by X, Y, or Z major oil company, but are run by a third party with X, Y, or Z major oil company providing the fuel (and paying for the branding).I would imagine that the oil companies pretty much use the same company to do this legwork so they can build a database of regular non payers, only then would it become a crime as intent would probably be proven.
And importantly the fuel supply contract between the site operator and X, Y, or Z major oil company requires the site operator to pay for the fuel irrespective of whether they got paid for it or whether the driver stole it or forgot to pay for it.
So understandably the site operators can be a bit 'keen' to recover money due on any drive-offs as otherwise with only a few pence a litre profit on fuel then a £50+ drive-off is a significant dent in that day's takings.
speedyguy said:
vonhosen said:
speedyguy said:
vonhosen said:
Just because a notice references a criminal offence it doesn't mean that one has taken place, anymore so than if you'd ordered a meal & then realised you'd lost your wallet when it came to pay for it. It's just bluster. You settle what you owe & that's it.
Funny that, when the late wife's card didn't go thru a few years ago (user or operator error?) letter in the post off the plod within a week. As alluded to further up thread plod generally don't give a fook now.
Either they get involved or they don't?
I don't think they'd bother nowadays.
That's why it's contracted out?
They wrote to you to remind you to pay & you did. That was the end of it.
There was never any criminal intent on your part so there was never an offence, no matter what any notice says.
Several years ago I filled the tank on the way home from work and discovered my wallet was still in work. At the checkout I gave details and had a slip to bring back when calling in to pay. Called in next morning with cash and settled. No problem.
When in Police Ops I had many calls about drive- offs. Basic details were taken ( vehicle, person, how they did it) plus request to save cctv if any. Suspicious behaviour versus probable mistake led to how it was dealt with. If available info meant vehicle could be traced then a reminder to the keeper/driver to pay or face action. An update of payment closed it. If evidence suggested deliberate making off then it was escalated instead of the warning.
When in Police Ops I had many calls about drive- offs. Basic details were taken ( vehicle, person, how they did it) plus request to save cctv if any. Suspicious behaviour versus probable mistake led to how it was dealt with. If available info meant vehicle could be traced then a reminder to the keeper/driver to pay or face action. An update of payment closed it. If evidence suggested deliberate making off then it was escalated instead of the warning.
Majorslow said:
At least we have not gone the way some petrol stations in America have where you pay for fuel in advance (and being British thought £50 would fill it up...ish). Fill up then return to cashier to get my $35 change!
That would stop drive off's
I love pay at pump That would stop drive off's
When you fill up 2 or 3 times a week it saves so much time
I hope more filling stations go that way
PF62 said:
It is only a criminal offence to drive off without paying if you went in to fill up with no intention to pay.
Driving off after forgetting to pay isn't a criminal offence, only a civil matter between you and the garage. This is why the police have little interest in drive-offs - low value crime and where it is hard to prove a crime has actually been committed.
£300,000+ a year from one single fuel station near me. It's not low-value by any means!Driving off after forgetting to pay isn't a criminal offence, only a civil matter between you and the garage. This is why the police have little interest in drive-offs - low value crime and where it is hard to prove a crime has actually been committed.
bristolracer said:
Majorslow said:
At least we have not gone the way some petrol stations in America have where you pay for fuel in advance (and being British thought £50 would fill it up...ish). Fill up then return to cashier to get my $35 change!
That would stop drive off's
I love pay at pump That would stop drive off's
When you fill up 2 or 3 times a week it saves so much time
I hope more filling stations go that way
The Mad Monk said:
Over £800 a day? Every day?
Do I find that strains credulity?
Yep. Do I find that strains credulity?
Even the smallest or least targeted stations in my area are hit for around £5-10k a year. major PFS's on a major trunk route, with poor protection from forecourt layout etc is significantly worse off.
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