28 days self cert sick leave up from 7!
Discussion
We all know people we work with who are off work with a headache now the self cert has gone up from 7 to 28!
https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave
https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave
Emily's dad said:
Well I know that there’s at least one of my team will take full advantage of that.
The interesting point is what HR will make of it, will attendance management policy/guidance have to be amended. I guess so.
Fortunately that’s not a decision for me to make.
AFAICS the only amendment will be changing the date for a sick note from 7 days to 28 days. I can't see why any other absence management procedures would need to be changed. The interesting point is what HR will make of it, will attendance management policy/guidance have to be amended. I guess so.
Fortunately that’s not a decision for me to make.
Where I work promotion and or lateral progression moves consider how much time you’ve had off sick.
Level 1. Sickness absence falls with Attendance Management Criteria, move supported.
Level 2. Sickness absence falls outside AMC, but promotion/progress is supported.
Level 3. Does not meet criteria, not considered for promotion/progress.
Certified sickness confirms reasons for absence, and whilst this sickness isn’t ignored it has a medically defined explanation. Assists with 2 above.
Self certified sick doesn’t have the same confirmation, however genuine and is (has been) abused by some staff in the past.
There are also levels of support that kick in with sickness absence.
That’s why the HR dept in my workplace may need to consider this.
No idea of the legalities or how other employers will deal with this.
Level 1. Sickness absence falls with Attendance Management Criteria, move supported.
Level 2. Sickness absence falls outside AMC, but promotion/progress is supported.
Level 3. Does not meet criteria, not considered for promotion/progress.
Certified sickness confirms reasons for absence, and whilst this sickness isn’t ignored it has a medically defined explanation. Assists with 2 above.
Self certified sick doesn’t have the same confirmation, however genuine and is (has been) abused by some staff in the past.
There are also levels of support that kick in with sickness absence.
That’s why the HR dept in my workplace may need to consider this.
No idea of the legalities or how other employers will deal with this.
Johnnytheboy said:
As far as I can gather, this is only a temporary measure.
Yarp“In order to free up GP capacity to focus on the government’s current priorities for the NHS of delivering the coronavirus booster programme and emergency care, employees will not be required to provide their employer with medical evidence of sickness absence for the first 28 days of absence. GPs will still be required to supply fit notes for periods of absence exceeding 28 days.
This change takes effect from 17 December, but applies to absences beginning on or after 10 December 2021, up to and including absences which begin on or before 26 January 2022. The self-certification period will revert to seven days for absences beginning on or after 27 January 2022.”
Perhaps I've been living under a rock, but the first I heard about this was yesterday: I'm currently off work on a stress related illness, while awaiting a procedure to investigate further. As my 7 days self certification finishes today I contacted my doctor via the website to request a sick note to cover me until I have the procedure. I then got an abrupt response about this new 28 day rule and that they wouldn't give me a sick note until after 28 days and I should self certify as per the Gov.uk link they sent to me.
I forwarded this to my work and explained that I'd tried to get a sick note from the doctor and what they'd told me. Nice and simple, low stress and not antagonising my condition further.
However, I've now received an email saying that unless I get a doctor's note then I will drop to statutory sick pay for the next three weeks unless I can get a doctor's note. I will try to contact the doctor in the morning to explain the situation and if there is a charge for a note then obviously I'm happy to pay it rather than drop to SSP for three weeks. However, I'm expecting to get further resistance from the surgery judging by the tone of their response to my request.
If it's too much hassle I'll take the SSP option and just treat it as three weeks unpaid leave. However, it does make rather a mockery of all the corporate emails before Christmas about mental health, etc and how marvelous they are at looking after staff.
Worse yet; I've been able to support some of my guys who've had illness or other issues over the last year and we've bent over backwards to help them, stretching the rules if there was any matter of 'manager's discretion' to allow extra time off/extended sick pay. Now it's my turn to need support and the drawbridge seems to have gone up. 
At least it has helped cement a decision to leave once I know there is no need to hang on to use my private health care.
Yes I should go to bed, but the email came back late this evening, which I saw on my phone. I ended up replying rather than stewing over it all night, since I'm not sleeping well as it is. Now sufficiently wound up and feeling bad again...
I forwarded this to my work and explained that I'd tried to get a sick note from the doctor and what they'd told me. Nice and simple, low stress and not antagonising my condition further.
However, I've now received an email saying that unless I get a doctor's note then I will drop to statutory sick pay for the next three weeks unless I can get a doctor's note. I will try to contact the doctor in the morning to explain the situation and if there is a charge for a note then obviously I'm happy to pay it rather than drop to SSP for three weeks. However, I'm expecting to get further resistance from the surgery judging by the tone of their response to my request.
If it's too much hassle I'll take the SSP option and just treat it as three weeks unpaid leave. However, it does make rather a mockery of all the corporate emails before Christmas about mental health, etc and how marvelous they are at looking after staff.
Worse yet; I've been able to support some of my guys who've had illness or other issues over the last year and we've bent over backwards to help them, stretching the rules if there was any matter of 'manager's discretion' to allow extra time off/extended sick pay. Now it's my turn to need support and the drawbridge seems to have gone up. At least it has helped cement a decision to leave once I know there is no need to hang on to use my private health care.Yes I should go to bed, but the email came back late this evening, which I saw on my phone. I ended up replying rather than stewing over it all night, since I'm not sleeping well as it is. Now sufficiently wound up and feeling bad again...
The teacher said:
1) Your employer can't make up their own rules surely?
2) Top tip. Put your work emails into a work profile and then have your profile turn off at a designated time. Mine turn off at 20:30 which I think is reasonable.
1. It seems they can. I won't get sacked for self certifying after the initial 7 days, but they won't pay me other than SSP. I guess this is to force people to get a doctor's note or push them to come back to work. Fun trying to get through to my doctors this morning though...2) Top tip. Put your work emails into a work profile and then have your profile turn off at a designated time. Mine turn off at 20:30 which I think is reasonable.
2. No idea what you mean about that as it's a company laptop and phone, so other than set my out of office, not much else I can do: If I look at the phone then I'll see I've received emails, which is what happened last night.
For some time now I've taken the attitude not to respond to any email after 6pm (I think 8:30 isn't reasonable myself if I've been working since 7:30am and my contracted hours are 7.5 per day anyway, so I'm still doing more than I need to). I only responded to the email last night so that I wouldn't stew on it overnight and also that I didn't want my boss ringing me back this morning if I sent it then as he'd assume I was free to talk.
I just wanted to post partly to vent, but also to highlight to anyone else who might come across this thread that they shouldn't assume their company will treat the 28 days self certification the same as the 7 day one.
Panamax said:
Sounds like they're taking a sensible approach to the management of sickness absence. It's staggering the different levels of sickness absence between different organisations - driven largely by how well they manage the subject.
Yet in this case it seems tat they are treating someone rightly too ill to work, unfairly and adding undue stress.They should be mindful of any policy not discriminating against a protected group as well.
if it was I would raise a grievance and advise it is causing undue stress.
Ouroboros said:
Panamax said:
Sounds like they're taking a sensible approach to the management of sickness absence. It's staggering the different levels of sickness absence between different organisations - driven largely by how well they manage the subject.
Yet in this case it seems tat they are treating someone rightly too ill to work, unfairly and adding undue stress.They should be mindful of any policy not discriminating against a protected group as well.
if it was I would raise a grievance and advise it is causing undue stress.
Yes they can choose what level of sick pay they pay, but they can't connect it to a request you cannot satisfy. The increase in self-cert time was brought in to alleviate pressure on GPs so they can focus on other things at the moment and it's clear they won't provide doctor's notes until they are legally required to. Your employer needs to update their policies. We nearly got caught out by this in December but have already adjusted everything.
Good luck OP.
Thanks all (though I'm not the OP as such, just a recent poster on this thread as it seemed relevant to my issue).
I was able to get a doctor's note arranged for collection later this week. Initially they tried to push me back and get me to do an online request (as I did earlier this week and they rejected). Once I'd explained about the request being rejected and that my firm would only pay me SSP if I didn't get a sick note, then they said I could have one, but it would be £25 charge. That still leaves me much better off than dropping to £90 a week or so SSP.
Otherwise I'd have just taken SSP for three weeks, but appreciate that not everyone would be able to do this. I've been saving up ready for being off around 6 months later this year once I finish working for them as I was planning semi retirement/find a less stressful part time job after I've had some time off.
Honestly I can't be bothered with putting in a grievance claim. I understand that the company are probably trying to mitigate against people trying it on and taking a month off without needing a doctor's note. Though I did feel a bit annoyed since I have a genuine reason for being off sick and already have the letter for the investigative procedure I could have forwarded to provide 'evidence' if they really needed that.
I was able to get a doctor's note arranged for collection later this week. Initially they tried to push me back and get me to do an online request (as I did earlier this week and they rejected). Once I'd explained about the request being rejected and that my firm would only pay me SSP if I didn't get a sick note, then they said I could have one, but it would be £25 charge. That still leaves me much better off than dropping to £90 a week or so SSP.
Otherwise I'd have just taken SSP for three weeks, but appreciate that not everyone would be able to do this. I've been saving up ready for being off around 6 months later this year once I finish working for them as I was planning semi retirement/find a less stressful part time job after I've had some time off.
Honestly I can't be bothered with putting in a grievance claim. I understand that the company are probably trying to mitigate against people trying it on and taking a month off without needing a doctor's note. Though I did feel a bit annoyed since I have a genuine reason for being off sick and already have the letter for the investigative procedure I could have forwarded to provide 'evidence' if they really needed that.
Edited by OldSkoolRS on Wednesday 19th January 10:00
OldSkoolRS said:
Perhaps I've been living under a rock, but the first I heard about this was yesterday: I'm currently off work on a stress related illness, while awaiting a procedure to investigate further. As my 7 days self certification finishes today I contacted my doctor via the website to request a sick note to cover me until I have the procedure. I then got an abrupt response about this new 28 day rule and that they wouldn't give me a sick note until after 28 days and I should self certify as per the Gov.uk link they sent to me.
I forwarded this to my work and explained that I'd tried to get a sick note from the doctor and what they'd told me. Nice and simple, low stress and not antagonising my condition further.
However, I've now received an email saying that unless I get a doctor's note then I will drop to statutory sick pay for the next three weeks unless I can get a doctor's note. I will try to contact the doctor in the morning to explain the situation and if there is a charge for a note then obviously I'm happy to pay it rather than drop to SSP for three weeks. However, I'm expecting to get further resistance from the surgery judging by the tone of their response to my request.
If it's too much hassle I'll take the SSP option and just treat it as three weeks unpaid leave. However, it does make rather a mockery of all the corporate emails before Christmas about mental health, etc and how marvelous they are at looking after staff. Worse yet; I've been able to support some of my guys who've had illness or other issues over the last year and we've bent over backwards to help them, stretching the rules if there was any matter of 'manager's discretion' to allow extra time off/extended sick pay. Now it's my turn to need support and the drawbridge seems to have gone up. At least it has helped cement a decision to leave once I know there is no need to hang on to use my private health care.
Yes I should go to bed, but the email came back late this evening, which I saw on my phone. I ended up replying rather than stewing over it all night, since I'm not sleeping well as it is. Now sufficiently wound up and feeling bad again...
Telehealth appointment with private GP would have that sorted fairly quickly, I’d imagine I forwarded this to my work and explained that I'd tried to get a sick note from the doctor and what they'd told me. Nice and simple, low stress and not antagonising my condition further.
However, I've now received an email saying that unless I get a doctor's note then I will drop to statutory sick pay for the next three weeks unless I can get a doctor's note. I will try to contact the doctor in the morning to explain the situation and if there is a charge for a note then obviously I'm happy to pay it rather than drop to SSP for three weeks. However, I'm expecting to get further resistance from the surgery judging by the tone of their response to my request.
If it's too much hassle I'll take the SSP option and just treat it as three weeks unpaid leave. However, it does make rather a mockery of all the corporate emails before Christmas about mental health, etc and how marvelous they are at looking after staff.
Worse yet; I've been able to support some of my guys who've had illness or other issues over the last year and we've bent over backwards to help them, stretching the rules if there was any matter of 'manager's discretion' to allow extra time off/extended sick pay. Now it's my turn to need support and the drawbridge seems to have gone up. At least it has helped cement a decision to leave once I know there is no need to hang on to use my private health care.Yes I should go to bed, but the email came back late this evening, which I saw on my phone. I ended up replying rather than stewing over it all night, since I'm not sleeping well as it is. Now sufficiently wound up and feeling bad again...
klan8456 said:
Telehealth appointment with private GP would have that sorted fairly quickly, I’d imagine
NHS doc sorted it out for me, except he put the date for yesterday (when he issued the note), rather than from Tuesday when I requested it. I'll have to go back on Monday to sort it as no doubt my firm will say there is a gap between my 7 day self cert and the new doctor's one starting.Maybe I should have looked into that option, but not sure how I'd go about it anyway, so perhaps it would have just added to the stress. Silly as it might seem, the slightest initiation or annoyance has a knock on effect at the moment, so I'm all about chilling out as much as possible and being calm.
OldSkoolRS said:
NHS doc sorted it out for me, except he put the date for yesterday (when he issued the note), rather than from Tuesday when I requested it. I'll have to go back on Monday to sort it as no doubt my firm will say there is a gap between my 7 day self cert and the new doctor's one starting.
Maybe I should have looked into that option, but not sure how I'd go about it anyway, so perhaps it would have just added to the stress. Silly as it might seem, the slightest initiation or annoyance has a knock on effect at the moment, so I'm all about chilling out as much as possible and being calm.
https://www.londondoctorsclinic.co.uk/online-doctor/Maybe I should have looked into that option, but not sure how I'd go about it anyway, so perhaps it would have just added to the stress. Silly as it might seem, the slightest initiation or annoyance has a knock on effect at the moment, so I'm all about chilling out as much as possible and being calm.
Very easy, and a good service. Hope things improve for you.
My 28 days was up last Friday: I did some catch up admin and again today, but more importantly I put my notice in. 
It's not great timing for the company because my colleague who manages the North of the UK is retiring in 6 weeks time, so now they have me retiring in 12 weeks time. After the way I was treated regarding the 28 day sick note (when I genuinely thought the Doc wouldn't give me a note until after the 28 days) I've told them that I won't work beyond the required 12 week notice period.
It felt good sending the official email (I'd spoken to my boss on Friday on the phone). By strange coincidence I got an email via LinkedIn about another job running a slightly larger team, but not field based (so no company car). While I don't think I'd want the pressure that I suspect this new job might bring, it was good to know that my CV/profile is getting some response.
It's not great timing for the company because my colleague who manages the North of the UK is retiring in 6 weeks time, so now they have me retiring in 12 weeks time. After the way I was treated regarding the 28 day sick note (when I genuinely thought the Doc wouldn't give me a note until after the 28 days) I've told them that I won't work beyond the required 12 week notice period. It felt good sending the official email (I'd spoken to my boss on Friday on the phone). By strange coincidence I got an email via LinkedIn about another job running a slightly larger team, but not field based (so no company car). While I don't think I'd want the pressure that I suspect this new job might bring, it was good to know that my CV/profile is getting some response.
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff