911 Vs Evora Vs gt86

[5lab]

I've 2 small kids who are the perfect age (nearly 3 and 5, so both in small front facing seats) to get a 2+2 for a few years as a second car. They won't be in it a lot, but the flexibility is good.

I've had an 89 mx5 and a 944 s2 before, amongst a bunch of other dross, and my preference is for light weight, skiddy rear wheel drive over absolute performance. I've got a flexible budget, up to £25k ish, but would be more than happy spending less..

A 911 (996 or early 997), Evora (non s) and (supercharged) gt86 all offer the same ballpark power to weight (and I'm not really after more speed than that, I know faster things exist for the same money). The Toyota is smaller and lighter and more practical, but less of an event to drive, and less grippy.

I suspect the total cost of ownership on all 3 would be similar, the gt86 suffering more depreciation perhaps, but having a less grenadey engine than a 911 and being generally better built than the lotus.

Has anyone owned multiple of these and can give feedback? I did have the m2 on the list for a short while but I think it's more of a bruiser than a lightweight tool

[ChrisH72]

I’ll be interested to see where this thread goes.

At the moment I have a hot hatch for similar purposes although it is used most days (just me in it). My 6 year old son likes it and we often go for a blast at the weekend. No plans to change just yet but I am a fan of the 2+2 coupe and have thought about cars like the GT86 and 2 series for next time round.

I’m struggling with the idea that you could run a 911 or a Lotus on the same budget as the Toyota?

Before the Fiesta ST I ran an e92 325i which was a nice car but a bit big and heavy and not all that sporty. It was also quite costly. I prefer the 2 series but would probably be looking at the M240i rather than the early M2 as I think it offers similar performance anywhere but on track. The M2 Comp is a different story but they’re over £40k. Reviews of the M lite are very favourable and there’s plenty within your budget.

[Mark-E34-535]

911.

They're just so good.

Mine was about as cheap as they come but still a hoot to drive and plenty of performance.

[justin220]

I've had the 2+2 Evora which was utterly fantastic, but I'm not convinced I'd get my 2 year old in the back? It's tiny behind the front seats, and with his legs pointing outward rather than down, I just don't think it would work.

[fflump]

What's your budget?
I'd take an Evora all day (take the kids to check they fit) but a decent one will be north of £30k.
A 996 has the potential to be cheaper, but obviously associated risks with an older car, plus bore score / IMS issues in the engine of these and gen 1 997s.
In fact for the price of a decent Evora you could probably squeeze into a gen 2 997.

The GT86 won't have the sense of occasion of the other two cars, but great fun if you like to wring every hp out of the car. I have only driven a non-blown version so don't know how that affects handling (the wheels are not terribly wide)

[griffter]

A 911 won’t be skiddy or light, particularly at speeds/in conditions you’d want your child with you on the road. You can tune the suspension to your liking and you could get a very good, sorted 996 to your tastes within budget but I’m not sure it suits your brief. On track my C4 really came alive, but on road it was just comfortable and competent.

I’d have thought GT86 is closer to what you’ve described.

[fflump]

justin220 said:

I've had the 2+2 Evora which was utterly fantastic, but I'm not convinced I'd get my 2 year old in the back? It's tiny behind the front seats, and with his legs pointing outward rather than down, I just don't think it would work.

Could the 5 yr old fit behind the drivers seat and the little one the other side with passenger seat further forward? I've missed the boat with these great cars-even my 13 yr old middle one is approaching my height.

[CABC]

I've had all 3, but with no kids I'm less able to comment on practical aspects. however. my gt86 seat was always closer to the rear seat than the other 2, so much so that I'd call it a 2+1 once the kids have legs that fold in a seat. the Evora in particular can accommodate very long legged drivers.

The OP is a valid cross-buying question but I reckon you'll get nowhere on a forum, it's how they make you feel. I suspect your 'requirements' and priorities would change after test drives. of course the 86 is the playful skitty one, but the other 2 are more of an ocasion. neither the 911 or Evora are back end out cars on public roads imo, both are well planted.

I loved my 86, cheap as chips and fun. however, I always had other sports cars to give me a purer hit, so I wouldn't have been so complimentary if it had been my only fun car.

[ZX10R NIN]

I'd normally always pick the Evora but it will really depend on how tall you are? Next is the fact that children don't get any smaller also the number of 2+2 Evora's is small.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112140...

So with this in mind I'd be lookin for the best 3.6 Carrera I could find.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111019...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107084...

[nickfrog]

ChrisH72 said:

I prefer the 2 series but would probably be looking at the M240i rather than the early M2 as I think it offers similar performance anywhere but on track. The M2 Comp is a different story but they’re over £40k. Reviews of the M lite are very favourable and there’s plenty within your budget.

I agree that the M240i is a brilliant package and offers similar straight line performance to an original M2. Having said that it is a totally different driving experience compared to either a M2 or a M2C (which themselves are very close in performance terms).

But still I don't think any of them are what the OP is after as they are heavy (yet surprisingly sharp) muscle cars in effect.

I would test drive a GT86 despite the engine as the grip issue can easily be resolved by fitting a good compound like a GY SS or Bridgestone Potenza Sport.

[fflump]

ZX10R NIN said:

I'd normally always pick the Evora but it will really depend on how tall you are? Next is the fact that children don't get any smaller also the number of 2+2 Evora's is small.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112140...

So with this in mind I'd be lookin for the best 3.6 Carrera I could find.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111019...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107084...

£33k for a 997.1 is a sign of the times I guess but only £5k less than a 997.2 which in 'normal' times may be easier to sell on.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112300...

[ZX10R NIN]

fflump said:

£33k for a 997.1 is a sign of the times I guess but only £5k less than a 997.2 which in 'normal' times may be easier to sell on.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112300...

8k more than the first 997.1 I listed, 8k is no small amount of change & it's not a manual, also you don't have to pay 30k for a 997 Carrera but you will be near to it to get a nice one.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112230...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107024...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112080...

[georgeyboy12345]

Out of those three, I'd pick the Evora, but I don't think you'll get a good one for £25k. Same applies to the 911. The GT86 is still a good buy and will be great fun, especially when supercharged.

[ChrisH72]

nickfrog said:

I agree that the M240i is a brilliant package and offers similar straight line performance to an original M2. Having said that it is a totally different driving experience compared to either a M2 or a M2C (which themselves are very close in performance terms).

But still I don't think any of them are what the OP is after as they are heavy (yet surprisingly sharp) muscle cars in effect.

I would test drive a GT86 despite the engine as the grip issue can easily be resolved by fitting a good compound like a GY SS or Bridgestone Potenza Sport.

I can't argue as I have no personal experience of the 2 series in any form. Just going by reviews I watched and read recently. The original M2 has the N55 engine which is supposedly not as good as the B series in the 240i? And the M2 Comp has a 'proper' S series M car engine. I was looking at the M240i as being good value, you can pick up a good one for 20k although I'm not sure if I would want manual or auto in these.

In any case, you're right, neither suit what the OP is looking for.

The 911s do look lovely. 600 quid tax though unless you get pre2005 and that's quite an old car now if you plan to use it much.

[nickfrog]

ChrisH72 said:

The original M2 has the N55 engine which is supposedly not as good as the B series in the 240i? And the M2 Comp has a 'proper' S series M car engine. I was looking at the M240i as being good value, you can pick up a good one for 20k although I'm not sure if I would want manual or auto in these.

The N55 in the M2 was somewhat revised including a dry sump.

It is not quite as strong at the top end as the S55 indeed but it remains very strong, not just in isolation. And it sounds better. And it saves 55kgs. Not sure how it compares to a B58 to live with, not that the B58 was ever available in the M2. Having said that it will be interesting to experience a S58 manual in the forthcoming new M2. I can't wait.

[5lab]

Thanks for all the comments all, some interesting and thought provoking reading..

ChrisH72 said:

I’ll be interested to see where this thread goes.
I’m struggling with the idea that you could run a 911 or a Lotus on the same budget as the Toyota?

I was thinking more about total cost of ownership, somewhat assuming car depreciation curves return to normal. in 3 years a gt86 that costs £15k should be worth maybe half that, but a £15k 911 will only have lost a couple of grand. The 911 will cost maybe £2k more per year in fuel, parts, and a pot for the engine going bang, so it roughly evens out over time. Not completely, for sure, but its close enough that I don't really mind.

justin220 said:

I've had the 2+2 Evora which was utterly fantastic, but I'm not convinced I'd get my 2 year old in the back? It's tiny behind the front seats, and with his legs pointing outward rather than down, I just don't think it would work.

Both my wife and I are quite tall (I'm 6'2, she's 6') - so legroom is definitely a concern. I tend to drive relatively close to the wheel (for my height), but still, it'll be negligable whether there's room for the kids legs to droop down. My kids do tend to sit cross legged in our normal car, so I think they'd be alright for shortish journeys - maybe picking them up from school, or a family day out 20 mins away, that sorta thing. I've no illusions of taking all 4 of us away to the continent for a week (the luggage space in all of them will pretty much proclude that anyway!)

fflump said:

What's your budget?
I'd take an Evora all day (take the kids to check they fit) but a decent one will be north of £30k.
A 996 has the potential to be cheaper, but obviously associated risks with an older car, plus bore score / IMS issues in the engine of these and gen 1 997s.
In fact for the price of a decent Evora you could probably squeeze into a gen 2 997

georgeyboy12345 said:

Out of those three, I'd pick the Evora, but I don't think you'll get a good one for £25k. Same applies to the 911. The GT86 is still a good buy and will be great fun, especially when supercharged.

I can probably spend up to £30k, and I know that in the evora world that's looking at earlier, questionable history cars. To balance that, I suppose evoras tend to be lower milage (more often 30k miles than 130k that you see in cheaper 911s), and whatever car I land in I'm likely to buy at the lower end of the market - I prefer to have something more "lived in" so I don't get precious about it picking up a scratch or whatever. Cat D/N would be fine (priced appropriately) too, which opens up some stuff lower down). If I get a gt86 I'll probably only spend 12 on a standard one, or 15 on a supercharged one, even though my budget would probably stretch to a brand spanking gr86 (if they ever actually release them)

griffter said:

A 911 won’t be skiddy or light, particularly at speeds/in conditions you’d want your child with you on the road. You can tune the suspension to your liking and you could get a very good, sorted 996 to your tastes within budget but I’m not sure it suits your brief. On track my C4 really came alive, but on road it was just comfortable and competent.

this is kind of how I'd describe the 944 I had as well. It was fun, and I could get to the limits on a wet, wide roundabout, but that was about it..

CABC said:

I've had all 3... but I reckon you'll get nowhere on a forum, it's how they make you feel. I suspect your 'requirements' and priorities would change after test drives. of course the 86 is the playful skitty one, but the other 2 are more of an ocasion. neither the 911 or Evora are back end out cars on public roads imo, both are well planted.

I loved my 86, cheap as chips and fun. however, I always had other sports cars to give me a purer hit, so I wouldn't have been so complimentary if it had been my only fun car.

great feedback, and I'll try to find one of each to test drive ahead of making the choice. I just feel a little bad going to drive something and then buying a completely different car - I don't want to waste anyones time (I haven't bought a car this way before, but I guess its normal)

out of curiosity, what did the gt86 lack from the 'purer hit' perspective? Just outright performance?

ZX10R NIN said:

I'd normally always pick the Evora but it will really depend on how tall you are? Next is the fact that children don't get any smaller also the number of 2+2 Evora's is small.

So with this in mind I'd be lookin for the best 3.6 Carrera I could find.

why the 3.6 out of curiosity?

a few people said:

stuff about 2 series

I think I could like a 2 series to drive, but if I open my door to them there's a whole load of other cars (e46 m3, older amg mercs, mustang, maybe an aston?) that fall into the criteria as well, and then I have too much choice I like the idea of a dedicated sports car "chassis", even if the big players have been proving that a well tuned 'saloon car' can perform just as well for years.

[ZX10R NIN]

Mainly because of personal experience I've encountered a lot less issues with the 3.6 vs the 3.8 so that's why I'd personally go for a 3.6.

The non S Evora is still a good drive also if you plan on keeping it a while & document the history during your ownership I don't think you'll lose any more than the equivalent 911 & you'll have the better steer out of the two.

Even supercharged the GT86 doesn't get a look in in this company.

[Olivera]

Spend a little more on a new forthcoming GR86?

I also like the 996, but it's getting to the age where a full nut and bolt suspension refresh will be required, never mind the engine letting go. As for the 3.6 being more reliable - based on a sample of one a friend's 3.6 engine terminally expired during a euro trip...

[CABC]

5lab said:

CABC said:

I've had all 3... but I reckon you'll get nowhere on a forum, it's how they make you feel. I suspect your 'requirements' and priorities would change after test drives. of course the 86 is the playful skitty one, but the other 2 are more of an ocasion. neither the 911 or Evora are back end out cars on public roads imo, both are well planted.

I loved my 86, cheap as chips and fun. however, I always had other sports cars to give me a purer hit, so I wouldn't have been so complimentary if it had been my only fun car.

great feedback, and I'll try to find one of each to test drive ahead of making the choice. I just feel a little bad going to drive something and then buying a completely different car - I don't want to waste anyones time (I haven't bought a car this way before, but I guess its normal)

out of curiosity, what did the gt86 lack from the 'purer hit' perspective? Just outright performance?

I'd just tell each dealer your shortlist and why.

a purer hit for me is lighter weight, in my case a 140hp Elise. personal choice, but for a fun car car I'd take chassis feel over the event of an engine. The 86 was commendably light for a 'normal' car but no Elise. It was of course way more practical, and great, innocent fun. try to drive one with manifold mods, it changes the character and maintains reliability. supercharging can be problematic. But, you're tall and it may not be viable.

[5lab]

ZX10R NIN said:

Even supercharged the GT86 doesn't get a look in in this company.

In what sense? Performance-wise they look close, interior of a 996 hasn't aged well - is it more the sense of occasion? I know the cars are rarely cross-shopped, but I'm not sure what the extra gets you. Much better engine I guess..

CABC said:

I'd just tell each dealer your shortlist and why.

a purer hit for me is lighter weight, in my case a 140hp Elise. personal choice, but for a fun car car I'd take chassis feel over the event of an engine. The 86 was commendably light for a 'normal' car but no Elise. It was of course way more practical, and great, innocent fun. try to drive one with manifold mods, it changes the character and maintains reliability. supercharging can be problematic. But, you're tall and it may not be viable.

Got it. Im guessing the other 2 wouldn't fare much better in that instance? I'd be all over the Evora if it were a 4 seat Elise (plus, say, 200kg, keeping it around a tonne), but it seems to more be a norfolk-engineered 911, especially in terms of weight.

From what I've read charging the gt86 is ok if you keep it sensible (270bhp or so), beyond that you're into potential engine issues..

Olivera said:

Spend a little more on a new forthcoming GR86?

Whilst I could afford the up front, my gut is the total cost of ownership over 3 years would be high, I'm also not sure when they will actually be released over here..

I'll probably my only be doing 3-4k per year in whatever I buy, and rarely long trips. I'd be happy with Elise like compromises, but I just don't think any 4ish seaters offer that sort of package