964 Based ’73 RS Replica
Discussion
Really interesting leaflet fell out of this months PCGB magazine, advertising the launch of the PS240 and PS300 from Paul Stephens.
The PS300 '73 RS Replica is based on the 964 series!
I’d be really interested to see how good that car looks and understand how much extra work is involved above and beyond conversion using a SC or 3.2 donor.
To be launched on the 29th August at Brand Hatch…watch the price of white 964s climb steadily thereafter!
The PS300 '73 RS Replica is based on the 964 series!
I’d be really interested to see how good that car looks and understand how much extra work is involved above and beyond conversion using a SC or 3.2 donor.
To be launched on the 29th August at Brand Hatch…watch the price of white 964s climb steadily thereafter!
Ork said:
Really interesting leaflet fell out of this months PCGB magazine, advertising the launch of the PS240 and PS300 from Paul Stephens.
The PS300 '73 RS Replica is based on the 964 series!
I’d be really interested to see how good that car looks and understand how much extra work is involved above and beyond conversion using a SC or 3.2 donor.
To be launched on the 29th August at Brand Hatch…watch the price of white 964s climb steadily thereafter!
I will be very interested in the prices! Autofarm do a fully galvanised version based on the 3.2 Carrera...
And thats not cheap!
I actually think this is quite a good idea. I have to say that I'm not a fan of turning a number nine bus into a testarossa however. IMO this is actually pretty different.
Obviously the chassis issues between the early porsches and the newer ones are significantly reduced. Many people find the early porsches more aesthetically pleasing, but buying a non galvanised car that is more than thirty years old is a bit of a frightener. I don't blame them for feeling that way.
The 73 rs is a zippy buzzy motor, and I doubt that one could even get close to that sort of approach with the 3.2c let alone the 964. On the other hand, you get a much meatier package that has the aesthetics of an earlier car.
Even a 3.2c is getting on a bit now, and it's really the ideal time for a restoration for most of them. If you originally wanted a 73rs, then this is a cool way to get, one that you're not frightened to use.
I don't think there would be that many issues in getting a 964 to look like a 73rs. Making it behave like one gets more difficult as time goes forward.
Making a 993 into a 73rs is, without doubt, like making a testarossa out of a number 9 bus.
IMO
Obviously the chassis issues between the early porsches and the newer ones are significantly reduced. Many people find the early porsches more aesthetically pleasing, but buying a non galvanised car that is more than thirty years old is a bit of a frightener. I don't blame them for feeling that way.
The 73 rs is a zippy buzzy motor, and I doubt that one could even get close to that sort of approach with the 3.2c let alone the 964. On the other hand, you get a much meatier package that has the aesthetics of an earlier car.
Even a 3.2c is getting on a bit now, and it's really the ideal time for a restoration for most of them. If you originally wanted a 73rs, then this is a cool way to get, one that you're not frightened to use.
I don't think there would be that many issues in getting a 964 to look like a 73rs. Making it behave like one gets more difficult as time goes forward.
Making a 993 into a 73rs is, without doubt, like making a testarossa out of a number 9 bus.
IMO
zb4523 said:
u may as well buy a 73rs kit car,cos ul still get the same " oh so its a replica is it" ,right mmh, very nice! every time,and at least with the kit car u wont fool anyone cos itl look shite from half a mile away,and spare u looking like a bigger tool
I personally haven't ever seen a "kitcar" replica of an RS. Covin used to produce a 930 lookalike though, perhaps you're mistaking it for one of those?
Having owned a 964Rs and a 2.4E, I can honestly say that the former was the closest to the latter that I have ever driven, in terms of responsiveness, feel and free-revving engine. So perhaps a 964 without dual mass flywheel could make a better base for an authentic RS rep than an SC or 3.2?
I don't think that there are many (or indeed any) sheet metal issues with the conversion at all as it happens.
The point? Well speaking for myself, I love the pre impact shape but as someone else has said, the extent to which these cars rot is scary; my car was 17 years old when I got hold of it and I had to have the tub patched - add 16 years to the clock and the same car in unrestored condition will probably need a new torsion bar tube (a write-off situation in the late '80s - probably not so now) and every single panel changing, including those oh so expensive rear wings, not to mention new floor pans, inner sills, kidney bowls etc etc
the early narrow bodied cars are getting very rare now in RHD form particually is "S" guise........seems a shame to me to hack a high spec pre 73 car to make an RS replica.........I believe its an easier conversion from a 74 car onwards .........
As for a 964 version, for me these cars are all about having a really revvy smaller capacity engine, they are light weight so circa 200 BHP is enough.......especially with that wonderful throttle response.
The conversion is easier - the flares on impact bumper cars pass muster for RS ones (they are not exactly the same but most people wouldn't notice,me included!).
I agree that it's sacrilege to hack an S or an E about - since 2.4S are north of £20k now, that'll not happen too often...in fact I considered buying Chris Harvey's old car last year to convert back to a 2.4S...
I agree that it's sacrilege to hack an S or an E about - since 2.4S are north of £20k now, that'll not happen too often...in fact I considered buying Chris Harvey's old car last year to convert back to a 2.4S...
Funnily enough dressing a 964 in pre-impact bumper clothes is something we-ve been looking at for a while on and off. Done properly the conversion is not as easy as it might seem. For one thing the front tub where the spare wheel sits is deeper in the later cars. There are several other differences as well. I will be very interested to see one in the flesh and to see where prices are set.
Our plan was to basically re-build the complete car, engine, gearbox, drive-chain, suspension etc. Why go to all this bother ? The early cars are indeed very pretty cars, unfortunately time has moved on, handling characteristics and longevity of life issues have been improved over the years and for most people an original car that needs to be treated with kid gloves isn`t what they want as an everyday drive. Similarly a 964 RS might not be what they want.
Why is is that everyone has to drive an RS to be driving a "proper" 911 ? For what it`s worth compared to my GT3 supercup my 964 RS is crap on the track, it`s far too soft. Similarly on the road you just grow horns and treat each mile as a race track to compensate for the harsh road handling. How can that be a good thing ? Sure as a compromise between a road and track car it`s ok, my GT3 would be undrivable on the road, but what if someone doesn`t want to put their 911 on track ?
A covin kit car is indeed a thing of wonderment, the problem is I`m not sure what you would liken it`s drive to. I suppose a golf buggy is the closest I`ve come to since. A 964 drives like err... a 911 ! so who`s what`s the problem. The guy isn`t saying look at me I`ve got a 2.7 RS, what he`s saying is I like the generic look of pre-impact bumper cars.
Henry
Our plan was to basically re-build the complete car, engine, gearbox, drive-chain, suspension etc. Why go to all this bother ? The early cars are indeed very pretty cars, unfortunately time has moved on, handling characteristics and longevity of life issues have been improved over the years and for most people an original car that needs to be treated with kid gloves isn`t what they want as an everyday drive. Similarly a 964 RS might not be what they want.
Why is is that everyone has to drive an RS to be driving a "proper" 911 ? For what it`s worth compared to my GT3 supercup my 964 RS is crap on the track, it`s far too soft. Similarly on the road you just grow horns and treat each mile as a race track to compensate for the harsh road handling. How can that be a good thing ? Sure as a compromise between a road and track car it`s ok, my GT3 would be undrivable on the road, but what if someone doesn`t want to put their 911 on track ?
A covin kit car is indeed a thing of wonderment, the problem is I`m not sure what you would liken it`s drive to. I suppose a golf buggy is the closest I`ve come to since. A 964 drives like err... a 911 ! so who`s what`s the problem. The guy isn`t saying look at me I`ve got a 2.7 RS, what he`s saying is I like the generic look of pre-impact bumper cars.
Henry
zb4523 said:
what i mean is that i just dont see the point in hacking a 964 which looks as good as any other old air cooled porsche,to turn it into something it isnt.fair play u have a 911 shell to start with from scratch and the time the desire then why not create a reproduction.anyway each to there own at the end of the day
Sure, I can see where you're coming from - I think it was the "kitcar" reference that was a little odd. But then why be sensible all the time?...
Henry-F said:
Funnily enough dressing a 964 in pre-impact bumper clothes is something we-ve been looking at for a while on and off. Done properly the conversion is not as easy as it might seem. For one thing the front tub where the spare wheel sits is deeper in the later cars. There are several other differences as well. I will be very interested to see one in the flesh and to see where prices are set.
Our plan was to basically re-build the complete car, engine, gearbox, drive-chain, suspension etc. Why go to all this bother ? The early cars are indeed very pretty cars, unfortunately time has moved on, handling characteristics and longevity of life issues have been improved over the years and for most people an original car that needs to be treated with kid gloves isn`t what they want as an everyday drive. Similarly a 964 RS might not be what they want.
Why is is that everyone has to drive an RS to be driving a "proper" 911 ? For what it`s worth compared to my GT3 supercup my 964 RS is crap on the track, it`s far too soft. Similarly on the road you just grow horns and treat each mile as a race track to compensate for the harsh road handling. How can that be a good thing ? Sure as a compromise between a road and track car it`s ok, my GT3 would be undrivable on the road, but what if someone doesn`t want to put their 911 on track ?
A covin kit car is indeed a thing of wonderment, the problem is I`m not sure what you would liken it`s drive to. I suppose a golf buggy is the closest I`ve come to since. A 964 drives like err... a 911 ! so who`s what`s the problem. The guy isn`t saying look at me I`ve got a 2.7 RS, what he`s saying is I like the generic look of pre-impact bumper cars.
Henry
Its nostalga......someone who has a GT3 might want a 2.7RS as well, just like I would like a 246 Dino, its not fast anymore, but I wanted one when I was young and couldnt afford one........sometimes the reality isnt as good as the dream I would agree......
POORCARDEALER said:
Its nostalga......someone who has a GT3 might want a 2.7RS as well, just like I would like a 246 Dino, its not fast anymore, but I wanted one when I was young and couldnt afford one........sometimes the reality isnt as good as the dream I would agree......
Yes, I'd like a Dino - perhaps in a couple of years....
Henry-F said:
Why is is that everyone has to drive an RS to be driving a "proper" 911 ? For what it`s worth compared to my GT3 supercup my 964 RS is crap on the track, it`s far too soft. Similarly on the road you just grow horns and treat each mile as a race track to compensate for the harsh road handling. How can that be a good thing ?
Henry
Intestingly I was speaking to someone at Spa with the opposite opinion. Sold his GT3 Cup right after the trackday. His view is the 964RS is more fun (not faster) to drive on circuits like Spa. I drove my own PSI setup RS(H&R dual spring suspension) and a 964 3.8RSR and apart from the increased body roll the RS was right there for handling.
I think "crap" as you put it depends on who's set it up and who is driving!
I'd chose a 3.8 RSR over the GT3 Cup everytime. But where do you find one?
>> Edited by chfs911 on Saturday 30th July 12:55
Crap is indeed a very harsh word and compared to, say a Ford Focus I would imagine the RS stacks up very well !
My 964 still resides in the collection and does indeed have a place, it offers the chance to be a little more relaxed on track and have a bit of a laugh, the problem is that it isn`t as "sharp" as the cup car.
I`m sure there are bits and bobs you can do to improve the car but by fitting RSR / 3.8 bits wouldn`t that only make you "look a tool" just like the chap in the `73 RS looking car. After all why not just buy an RSR.
My tongue is of course firmly in cheek.
Henry
My 964 still resides in the collection and does indeed have a place, it offers the chance to be a little more relaxed on track and have a bit of a laugh, the problem is that it isn`t as "sharp" as the cup car.
I`m sure there are bits and bobs you can do to improve the car but by fitting RSR / 3.8 bits wouldn`t that only make you "look a tool" just like the chap in the `73 RS looking car. After all why not just buy an RSR.
My tongue is of course firmly in cheek.
Henry
I wasn't advising modifying your RS only getting it set up as the Cup will be. Most will be tired if still on the original suspension.
The RSR could dispatch a GT3 Cup from my experience in it in May. Might even be a video of it somewhere. GT3RS were easily despatched.
A full Race setup will always be better on the track.
The RSR could dispatch a GT3 Cup from my experience in it in May. Might even be a video of it somewhere. GT3RS were easily despatched.
A full Race setup will always be better on the track.
Hi,
New member to pistonheads so apologies if this has been covered elsewhere - but related to the questions above that were asked ages ago.
Is the full extent of changes required to convert a 964 into a wonderful "pre-73 tribute" car like PStephens is advertising easy or difficult?
Looks to me like:
New wheels - PSArt items required as fuchs size/offsets wrong.
REAR
New rear bumper (Dare moulding) & overriders
New pre-73 rear lights & housings
New rear fog
Rewire lighting at rear as 964 uses reflector panel for fogs etc.
New rear engine cover with/without duckbill etc.
FRONT
New pre-73 bonnet or reskin existing (is this a swap item for the 964 bonnet?)
New front bumber (Dare moulding) & overriders
New pre-73 front lights & housings & chrome horn covers
New filler panel between new bumper & 964 wing
New chrome light bezels
REST
New chrome surround for all windows
New chrome wing mirrors
New chrome door handles
Paint to taste & hey presto - 964 transformed into tasty old-timer-a-like.
The above sounds fairly easy with some prof help here and there, but is it? There is alot of gubbins behind the bumpers on a 964 - what makes the above transformation difficult? Is a 3.2C alot easier to do?
Thanks
J
New member to pistonheads so apologies if this has been covered elsewhere - but related to the questions above that were asked ages ago.
Is the full extent of changes required to convert a 964 into a wonderful "pre-73 tribute" car like PStephens is advertising easy or difficult?
Looks to me like:
New wheels - PSArt items required as fuchs size/offsets wrong.
REAR
New rear bumper (Dare moulding) & overriders
New pre-73 rear lights & housings
New rear fog
Rewire lighting at rear as 964 uses reflector panel for fogs etc.
New rear engine cover with/without duckbill etc.
FRONT
New pre-73 bonnet or reskin existing (is this a swap item for the 964 bonnet?)
New front bumber (Dare moulding) & overriders
New pre-73 front lights & housings & chrome horn covers
New filler panel between new bumper & 964 wing
New chrome light bezels
REST
New chrome surround for all windows
New chrome wing mirrors
New chrome door handles
Paint to taste & hey presto - 964 transformed into tasty old-timer-a-like.
The above sounds fairly easy with some prof help here and there, but is it? There is alot of gubbins behind the bumpers on a 964 - what makes the above transformation difficult? Is a 3.2C alot easier to do?
Thanks
J
Please no!! Not the Paul Stephens cars -they are just, well, wrong!! Look at the proportions of the front and rear bumpers/valance...and as for those wheels..... Last time I saw some like that were in my grandad's tinplate car model collection.......
However.....Autofarm have just finished a rather nice retro 3.2 shell with correct panels and 964 engine...THAT is nice...
However.....Autofarm have just finished a rather nice retro 3.2 shell with correct panels and 964 engine...THAT is nice...
This whole malarky reminds me of when boys used to "convert" 3.0 S capris to look like 2.8 Injections in the mid eighties. All right at first, but later on tended to be worth less than if they were left alone.
3.2's are ripe for restoration. Many are at the fork in the road, they're either looked after or become financially unviable write offs.
I've met people of the opinion that £500 pa will keep them going.
Not in my experience. They can be kept going, don't last without reasonable investment.
Good news for me, fewer clean examples mean the ones that are about get positive equity as it were.
3.2's are ripe for restoration. Many are at the fork in the road, they're either looked after or become financially unviable write offs.
I've met people of the opinion that £500 pa will keep them going.
Not in my experience. They can be kept going, don't last without reasonable investment.
Good news for me, fewer clean examples mean the ones that are about get positive equity as it were.
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