Discussion
Not sure if I'll post this or not or just use it to organise my thoughts...
My stepdad passed away unexpectedly in December while on the farm, he had no health issues and was only 60, it was a total shock to us all. Whilst I was his stepson, he has looked after me since I was 3- so pretty much my dad. It's been a horrendous time and I still can't look at photos of him without crying.
The whole of my sisters and my life he always told us that we didn't want to go into farming as there wasn't any money in it, so I went into computer programming and my sister went into hospitality. I can drive tractors and I'm pretty mechanically minded, but that's pretty much as far as it goes.
But now we have 180 cows (beef not milk), 200 sheep and 1200 acres of arable across 4 different rented/managed farms that we need to decide what to do with.
We are going to sell the majority of the cows as they are difficult to handle at the best of times and my mum doesn't want to be doing it, but I'm wondering if I can pick up the arable side. Mum would keep most of the sheep I think.
I like the machinery aspect of farming and think it would be a rewarding way to make a living, but I don't know if I'd ever be able to pick up 40+ years of experience. Everyone has been amazingly supportive including agronomists, farming friends, family and the guy who worked for my stepdad, so I reckon we could at least pick up the basics.
But what if we can't do it, and ruin his legacy, leaving my mum with nothing?
What if we don't get on working as a family?
What if no-one takes us seriously?
On the positive side, it would make a hell of a youtube series!
My wife and I also have a small alpaca farm, so lifestyle wise not much would change, we already can't really take many holidays etc...
And when would you ever get the chance to pick up such a massive business which already has £750k+ worth of machinery?
I don't see me always working behind a desk, I'm just not interested in computers enough, maybe this could be good?
I don't know if I even have the nerve...where would I even start?
Sorry for the rambling...
My stepdad passed away unexpectedly in December while on the farm, he had no health issues and was only 60, it was a total shock to us all. Whilst I was his stepson, he has looked after me since I was 3- so pretty much my dad. It's been a horrendous time and I still can't look at photos of him without crying.
The whole of my sisters and my life he always told us that we didn't want to go into farming as there wasn't any money in it, so I went into computer programming and my sister went into hospitality. I can drive tractors and I'm pretty mechanically minded, but that's pretty much as far as it goes.
But now we have 180 cows (beef not milk), 200 sheep and 1200 acres of arable across 4 different rented/managed farms that we need to decide what to do with.
We are going to sell the majority of the cows as they are difficult to handle at the best of times and my mum doesn't want to be doing it, but I'm wondering if I can pick up the arable side. Mum would keep most of the sheep I think.
I like the machinery aspect of farming and think it would be a rewarding way to make a living, but I don't know if I'd ever be able to pick up 40+ years of experience. Everyone has been amazingly supportive including agronomists, farming friends, family and the guy who worked for my stepdad, so I reckon we could at least pick up the basics.
But what if we can't do it, and ruin his legacy, leaving my mum with nothing?
What if we don't get on working as a family?
What if no-one takes us seriously?
On the positive side, it would make a hell of a youtube series!
My wife and I also have a small alpaca farm, so lifestyle wise not much would change, we already can't really take many holidays etc...
And when would you ever get the chance to pick up such a massive business which already has £750k+ worth of machinery?
I don't see me always working behind a desk, I'm just not interested in computers enough, maybe this could be good?
I don't know if I even have the nerve...where would I even start?
Sorry for the rambling...
Arable and sheep farmers son here who went in to a desk based industry instead so probably similar position to you, except my father had retired and sold up before he died. I'd say it would be a massive learning curve to get in to farming, there's way more to it than just the tractor driving I used to do 25 years ago. There is lots of help out there though, my sister's an agronomist and they advise on what pesticides/fertiliser/irrigation/etc are needed, and also help with minstry paperwork, of which there is a huge amount.
Love him or loath him I'd definitely recommend watching Clarksons Farm to get an idea of some of the things you'd need to think about.
Love him or loath him I'd definitely recommend watching Clarksons Farm to get an idea of some of the things you'd need to think about.
RizzoTheRat said:
Arable and sheep farmers son here who went in to a desk based industry instead so probably similar position to you, except my father had retired and sold up before he died. I'd say it would be a massive learning curve to get in to farming, there's way more to it than just the tractor driving I used to do 25 years ago. There is lots of help out there though, my sister's an agronomist and they advise on what pesticides/fertiliser/irrigation/etc are needed, and also help with minstry paperwork, of which there is a huge amount.
Love him or loath him I'd definitely recommend watching Clarksons Farm to get an idea of some of the things you'd need to think about.
Yeah, we all loved watching Clarkson. I think this would be a similar learning curve!Love him or loath him I'd definitely recommend watching Clarksons Farm to get an idea of some of the things you'd need to think about.
The agronomist was a close friend of my stepdad and is retired so is helping out a lot with stuff including deciphering my stepdads diary.
It'd be a shame to have to sell everything he spent his life building, but then again he had only planned another 5 years then he was going to retire.
The sad thing is that he had multiple conversations with different people on what to do if anything happened to him, but no-one listened as they never thought it would happen.
Sorry for your loss.
Have a think about the criticality of making this decision. So soon after the loss of your father, you will still be very emotional. Of course you will feel emotional around this loss for a long time but this is a big decision and a big potential undertaking and you need to make sure you're making the right decision for the right reasons.
P.S. My Dad has always told me how s
t his industry is, nonetheless I think a significant part of him would've liked me to have taken it on- but as he retired, I didn't. I am fine with it and he seems to be fine with it...
I feel like farming is one of those where you 'have to love it' for it to make sense to the individual.
Have a think about the criticality of making this decision. So soon after the loss of your father, you will still be very emotional. Of course you will feel emotional around this loss for a long time but this is a big decision and a big potential undertaking and you need to make sure you're making the right decision for the right reasons.
P.S. My Dad has always told me how s
t his industry is, nonetheless I think a significant part of him would've liked me to have taken it on- but as he retired, I didn't. I am fine with it and he seems to be fine with it...I feel like farming is one of those where you 'have to love it' for it to make sense to the individual.
Edited by HustleRussell on Wednesday 12th January 14:07
HustleRussell said:
Sorry for your loss.
Have a think about the criticality of making this decision. So soon after the loss of your father, you will still be very emotional. Of course you will feel emotional around this loss for a long time but this is a big decision and a big potential undertaking and you need to make sure you're making the right decision for the right reasons.
Thank you.Have a think about the criticality of making this decision. So soon after the loss of your father, you will still be very emotional. Of course you will feel emotional around this loss for a long time but this is a big decision and a big potential undertaking and you need to make sure you're making the right decision for the right reasons.
We have until March to make a decision I think as that's when the spring crops get planted. However if I am going to do it, I need to be more involved in the meetings with different advisors.
Mum changes her mind daily at the moment, it's difficult to keep her from making hasty decisions
Stockman14 said:
Sorry to hear about your loss!
There are lots of people around that can help. Including contractors etc. that could help lighten the load for the first part.
Where are you based?
Derbyshire.There are lots of people around that can help. Including contractors etc. that could help lighten the load for the first part.
Where are you based?
It's funny, there have been quite a few volunteers, but only for the arable part. No-one seems to want to do anything with the animals.
I think we worked out we would generally be ok labour wise, the only time we are going to struggle to do everything is when we are combining and planting the next years crops at the same time. Though the combine mostly drives itself!
james6546 said:
Derbyshire.
It's funny, there have been quite a few volunteers, but only for the arable part. No-one seems to want to do anything with the animals.
I think we worked out we would generally be ok labour wise, the only time we are going to struggle to do everything is when we are combining and planting the next years crops at the same time. Though the combine mostly drives itself!
I'm a bit far away, or I might have been able to help a bit.It's funny, there have been quite a few volunteers, but only for the arable part. No-one seems to want to do anything with the animals.
I think we worked out we would generally be ok labour wise, the only time we are going to struggle to do everything is when we are combining and planting the next years crops at the same time. Though the combine mostly drives itself!
Your best bet is probably reach out to the NFU. They'll be able to give you all the advise you need and will be impartial!
The last thing you want is to get stung by someone trying their luck.
Stockman14 said:
I'm a bit far away, or I might have been able to help a bit.
Your best bet is probably reach out to the NFU. They'll be able to give you all the advise you need and will be impartial!
The last thing you want is to get stung by someone trying their luck.
Thank you.Your best bet is probably reach out to the NFU. They'll be able to give you all the advise you need and will be impartial!
The last thing you want is to get stung by someone trying their luck.
I've got to have a discussion with my mum and sister at some point.
We have a very trusted farming friend coming round on Friday, so I think we will try and have a chat about it then.
I'm also fitting cameras at the weekend as we have already had a mower stolen just before christmas, it makes you despair at humanity when a farmer dies and people specifically come to try and steal things
Think carefully before selling - farms are still completely exempt from Inheritance Tax and so give the best possible scope for your own tax planning.
Even if you don't want to be a farmer yourself, hang onto the ownership and rent it out under a Farm Business Tenancy. (NB It must be exactly this type of tenancy). This enables you you to sit back as landlord while preserving an excellent Inheritance Tax exemption.
Even if you don't want to be a farmer yourself, hang onto the ownership and rent it out under a Farm Business Tenancy. (NB It must be exactly this type of tenancy). This enables you you to sit back as landlord while preserving an excellent Inheritance Tax exemption.
Panamax said:
Think carefully before selling - farms are still completely exempt from Inheritance Tax and so give the best possible scope for your own tax planning.
Even if you don't want to be a farmer yourself, hang onto the ownership and rent it out under a Farm Business Tenancy. (NB It must be exactly this type of tenancy). This enables you you to sit back as landlord while preserving an excellent Inheritance Tax exemption.
Sadly it's all rented, we don't own anything. One of the saddest things is they never bought a farm together despite many years of trying. Even if you don't want to be a farmer yourself, hang onto the ownership and rent it out under a Farm Business Tenancy. (NB It must be exactly this type of tenancy). This enables you you to sit back as landlord while preserving an excellent Inheritance Tax exemption.
And the tenancy on the main farm only has 5 years left. I have a feeling it won't be renewed either, as the estate want to use it for events and mud run type things.
I have to say that on the basis of what you've set out I'd be looking for a dignified exit. Sentimental attachment doesn't (with all respect) amount to a great deal when you're up to your knees in mud and sh*t. You mentioned just keeping the arable but even that can be a hell of a lot of work. Unless there's a nice return available you might want to consider negotiating a surrender of those 5 years still to run.
Not comfortable choices, but I'd say don't take it on unless you really want to or really need to.
Not comfortable choices, but I'd say don't take it on unless you really want to or really need to.
If it had been his own farm I’d have seen the value in keeping it going even if it meant renting it out but as it’s not his land I can’t see the point in it.
Especially as the lease may not be renewed anyway.
Liquidate as much value as you can and let it go.
There’s no penalty clause in ending the lease on your end is there? Might be worth checking that out.
Yeah, that does kind of make sense. Though the part that the lease is ending on is the farm house, animal grazing land and sheds, the rest of the arable could still be continued if we could find somewhere with enough sheds for the grain and machinery.
I think realistically we are going to need to farm it until the summer at least, so we can get the crops out of the ground.
My thoughts are that I could take a 6 month sabbatical from work from about March and do the day to day farming to see how I liked it. There isn't much to lose as long as I earn enough to cover my portion of the mortgage and bills.
I think realistically we are going to need to farm it until the summer at least, so we can get the crops out of the ground.
My thoughts are that I could take a 6 month sabbatical from work from about March and do the day to day farming to see how I liked it. There isn't much to lose as long as I earn enough to cover my portion of the mortgage and bills.
I'm so sorry for your loss to you and your family.
Go for it. Start the new adventure and never look back. I also work in IT (network automation engineer), every day I watch farmers from my office window (WFH) and I desperately want their lifestyle. Being stuck behind a desk is fking boring and a waste of the 1 life we get.
Best of luck OP and you're absolutely correct, YT could be a fantastic avenue for additional revenue (albeit very small at first), but I'd watch your channel, as would loads of others.
Go for it. Start the new adventure and never look back. I also work in IT (network automation engineer), every day I watch farmers from my office window (WFH) and I desperately want their lifestyle. Being stuck behind a desk is f
king boring and a waste of the 1 life we get. Best of luck OP and you're absolutely correct, YT could be a fantastic avenue for additional revenue (albeit very small at first), but I'd watch your channel, as would loads of others.
Networkgeek said:
I'm so sorry for your loss to you and your family.
Go for it. Start the new adventure and never look back. I also work in IT (network automation engineer), every day I watch farmers from my office window (WFH) and I desperately want their lifestyle. Being stuck behind a desk is fking boring and a waste of the 1 life we get.
Best of luck OP and you're absolutely correct, YT could be a fantastic avenue for additional revenue (albeit very small at first), but I'd watch your channel, as would loads of others.
Thank you. It's not getting much easier tbh. The funeral is Monday, then I'm hoping we can start to move forwards, but who knows.Go for it. Start the new adventure and never look back. I also work in IT (network automation engineer), every day I watch farmers from my office window (WFH) and I desperately want their lifestyle. Being stuck behind a desk is f
king boring and a waste of the 1 life we get. Best of luck OP and you're absolutely correct, YT could be a fantastic avenue for additional revenue (albeit very small at first), but I'd watch your channel, as would loads of others.
At the moment I just kind of feel useless. My sister has Jan off work so is taking control of everything and spends her time helping out with things. I know it's her way of coping but there isn't anything I can really help with as I need to work so I can pay our mortgage.
The current plan looks like my sister is going to help run the farm for now and I'll take time off paid or unpaid to help out at busy times like harvest and sowing crops. The main problem is the income from the farm isn't enough to pay my sister, mum, the full time employee and me.
Very, very sorry for your loss.
My advice, as a farm owner, is to try and find good impartial financial and tax advice. Every situation is slightly different, and the current uncertainties over support payments doesn't make anything easier.
Try and make a robust budget for the next five years, that is suitably pessimistic (not hard for farmers) and figure out whether your plans are viable or not. Things like fertiliser prices at the moment are concentrating minds. What condition is the machinery in? Are there any outstanding payments on it?
Also bear in mind that in mixed farming, generally, the beef and arable will complement each other. If the herd is to be dispersed, has it been elected for "Herd Basis" with HMRC? https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/business-...
You can't ask too many questions. If you can, try and be brutally unemotional about the financial side of things.
Best of luck.
My advice, as a farm owner, is to try and find good impartial financial and tax advice. Every situation is slightly different, and the current uncertainties over support payments doesn't make anything easier.
Try and make a robust budget for the next five years, that is suitably pessimistic (not hard for farmers) and figure out whether your plans are viable or not. Things like fertiliser prices at the moment are concentrating minds. What condition is the machinery in? Are there any outstanding payments on it?
Also bear in mind that in mixed farming, generally, the beef and arable will complement each other. If the herd is to be dispersed, has it been elected for "Herd Basis" with HMRC? https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/business-...
You can't ask too many questions. If you can, try and be brutally unemotional about the financial side of things.
Best of luck.
Leithen said:
Very, very sorry for your loss.
My advice, as a farm owner, is to try and find good impartial financial and tax advice. Every situation is slightly different, and the current uncertainties over support payments doesn't make anything easier.
Try and make a robust budget for the next five years, that is suitably pessimistic (not hard for farmers) and figure out whether your plans are viable or not. Things like fertiliser prices at the moment are concentrating minds. What condition is the machinery in? Are there any outstanding payments on it?
Also bear in mind that in mixed farming, generally, the beef and arable will complement each other. If the herd is to be dispersed, has it been elected for "Herd Basis" with HMRC? https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/business-...
You can't ask too many questions. If you can, try and be brutally unemotional about the financial side of things.
Best of luck.
Thank you for the advice, we are going to try and find a financial advisor to assist with this as a lot of the finances were in my stepdads head. He was a very smart guy. My advice, as a farm owner, is to try and find good impartial financial and tax advice. Every situation is slightly different, and the current uncertainties over support payments doesn't make anything easier.
Try and make a robust budget for the next five years, that is suitably pessimistic (not hard for farmers) and figure out whether your plans are viable or not. Things like fertiliser prices at the moment are concentrating minds. What condition is the machinery in? Are there any outstanding payments on it?
Also bear in mind that in mixed farming, generally, the beef and arable will complement each other. If the herd is to be dispersed, has it been elected for "Herd Basis" with HMRC? https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/business-...
You can't ask too many questions. If you can, try and be brutally unemotional about the financial side of things.
Best of luck.
Other than us having to buy a new fertiliser spinner and sort out the big service on the biggest tractor, all of the machinery is relatively new.
My stepdad also stockpiled fertiliser which should at least last us for this season.
The biggest issue we have at the moment is working out which corn in the shed came from what farm...
james6546 said:
Thank you. It's not getting much easier tbh. The funeral is Monday, then I'm hoping we can start to move forwards, but who knows.
At the moment I just kind of feel useless. My sister has Jan off work so is taking control of everything and spends her time helping out with things. I know it's her way of coping but there isn't anything I can really help with as I need to work so I can pay our mortgage.
The current plan looks like my sister is going to help run the farm for now and I'll take time off paid or unpaid to help out at busy times like harvest and sowing crops. The main problem is the income from the farm isn't enough to pay my sister, mum, the full time employee and me.
It certainly seems you're thinking this whole process through and not rushing into anything. This is honestly the best thing to do, as it's such a huge lifestyle shift and as you say, you have bills to pay. At the moment I just kind of feel useless. My sister has Jan off work so is taking control of everything and spends her time helping out with things. I know it's her way of coping but there isn't anything I can really help with as I need to work so I can pay our mortgage.
The current plan looks like my sister is going to help run the farm for now and I'll take time off paid or unpaid to help out at busy times like harvest and sowing crops. The main problem is the income from the farm isn't enough to pay my sister, mum, the full time employee and me.
I have no idea what part of the country you're in, but if you happen to be around Wiltshire, I would honestly love to offer any help I can on the farm. I've worked on farms in my teens, the majority of my friends are farmers, so I'm always in/around farms & their equipment. If I can be of any assistance, please do drop me a message.
Best of luck for everything mate
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