Walking up Snowdon this time of year…
Discussion
Big Rig said:
Equipment question.
I’ve done snowdon a few times in the summer, always wanted to do it in the winter. One of the next few weekends I’m going to do the Llanberis path to the top.
What extra equipment over my summer/autumn stuff should I consider getting before going?
You will be fine, I would take an emergency shelter (bivvy bag) and a sleeping bag, in case you have a fall/injury and need to wait for assistence. Little more food and maybe a thermos of something hot to drink is nice.I’ve done snowdon a few times in the summer, always wanted to do it in the winter. One of the next few weekends I’m going to do the Llanberis path to the top.
What extra equipment over my summer/autumn stuff should I consider getting before going?
Hat / gloves / fully waterproof outer layers (or shorts) and get going.
Do pick a day when navigation is easy though. Snowden in daylight and with no cloud is a lovely gentle walk. In the cloud/damp freezing its just not a lot of fun.
Me and two friends went up in May 2019 and we started at Pen-Y-Pass under blue sky and sunshine at around 8-10degrees, but it was snow and thick ice from around 3/4 up. We took the Miners track up and we were very close to turning back because it became very sketchy. There were many casualties dotted in several locations, so do proceed with caution.
We came back down the Ranger's path, and it was like a warm summers day from around 1/2 way down, so be sure to chat to a local or someone on their way back down for a real Sit Rep on the day....
We came back down the Ranger's path, and it was like a warm summers day from around 1/2 way down, so be sure to chat to a local or someone on their way back down for a real Sit Rep on the day....
There is a difference between doing it "in winter" and doing it "in winter conditions". Things have been pretty mild so far and so far as I'm aware there is little or no snow up there right now. So although it's probably going to be a bit chilly and you'll need a decent coat, I don't see that you'll have any particular issue.
But you do need to keep an eye on the forecast and be prepared for things to change very quickly. If you get caught out in a wintry storm then things will get very uncomfortable, and pretty dangerous if you aren't well equipped and experienced. The chances of you needing crampons & ice axes on the Llanberis path are small unless it really is in full-on winter mode - but as above, be prepared for things to take a turn for the worse and make sure you have provisions & clothing for a prolonged, cold stay if things did get nasty.
But you do need to keep an eye on the forecast and be prepared for things to change very quickly. If you get caught out in a wintry storm then things will get very uncomfortable, and pretty dangerous if you aren't well equipped and experienced. The chances of you needing crampons & ice axes on the Llanberis path are small unless it really is in full-on winter mode - but as above, be prepared for things to take a turn for the worse and make sure you have provisions & clothing for a prolonged, cold stay if things did get nasty.
Sounds obvious but check the forecast before going, again obvious but it can be much colder and windier at the peak
Snowdon forecast
Snowdon forecast
Yep. I have climbed it in september. Warm summers day as we left the carpark. Hat, scarf, gloves and a hot drink at the cafe at the top.
Unless you are well prepared I would not even consider it at this time of year.
Even the train is off at this time of year and the summit cafe is shut due to the pandemic until 2023
Unless you are well prepared I would not even consider it at this time of year.
Even the train is off at this time of year and the summit cafe is shut due to the pandemic until 2023
...and just to add to Matty's post above. You are more likely to need winter equipment in the late season than you are at the start of winter. It takes a while for things to accumulate, but once the snow & ice is there it takes a long time to melt away. So as he says, in spring you are more likely to be caught out by conditions high up than you are right now.
MWIS has a specific Snowdonia forecast which is worth keeping an eye on if you don't already:
https://www.mwis.org.uk/forecasts/english-and-wels...
https://www.mwis.org.uk/forecasts/english-and-wels...
sherman said:
Yep. I have climbed it in september. Warm summers day as we left the carpark. Hat, scarf, gloves and a hot drink at the cafe at the top.
Unless you are well prepared I would not even consider it at this time of year.
Even the train is off at this time of year and the summit cafe is shut due to the pandemic until 2023
And I have climbed it on New Years day... Unless you are well prepared I would not even consider it at this time of year.
Even the train is off at this time of year and the summit cafe is shut due to the pandemic until 2023
Like any mountain in the UK, all is very easy, until it isn't. My advice is to be equipped to survive a night on the mountain (thats the same advice all year round) you just need more gear to do it in winter.
Big Rig said:
Equipment question.
I’ve done snowdon a few times in the summer, always wanted to do it in the winter. One of the next few weekends I’m going to do the Llanberis path to the top.
What extra equipment over my summer/autumn stuff should I consider getting before going?
Up to you, you're an adult, but the Llanberis path is very different in winter compared with summer, and people do die falling off it. I’ve done snowdon a few times in the summer, always wanted to do it in the winter. One of the next few weekends I’m going to do the Llanberis path to the top.
What extra equipment over my summer/autumn stuff should I consider getting before going?
This seems helpful: https://www.walkupsnowdon.co.uk/walking-climbing-s...
As others have said, when it's cold but not icy then it's the same as last time you did it but with an extra warm layer. I personally wouldn't take a sleeping bag - there's a balance between being prepared for the unexpected but not carrying so much extra weight that the unexpected becomes inevitable.
Under snow it's a different proposition. It doesn't take much snow to fill a path and then freeze over to hard ice.
Plenty get away with it, but really you'd want an axe and crampons and more importantly the skills to know if they are actually needed and how to use them when they are. There are plenty of instructors around who can introduce you to ice axe and crampon use and it's a fun day out too.
As others have said, when it's cold but not icy then it's the same as last time you did it but with an extra warm layer. I personally wouldn't take a sleeping bag - there's a balance between being prepared for the unexpected but not carrying so much extra weight that the unexpected becomes inevitable.
Under snow it's a different proposition. It doesn't take much snow to fill a path and then freeze over to hard ice.
Plenty get away with it, but really you'd want an axe and crampons and more importantly the skills to know if they are actually needed and how to use them when they are. There are plenty of instructors around who can introduce you to ice axe and crampon use and it's a fun day out too.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
As already said above by others, things are very different under snow. It's not just the cold, the whole landscape changes and the risks with it.From the site I linked -
"While in Summer, the Llanberis Path is generally regarded as the easiest route up Snowdon (by us and Llanberis MRT) – this certainly isn’t the case in winter! The Llanberis path has a particularly hazardous section called the Killer Convex between Clogwyn Station and Bwlch Glas. It’s called that for good reason, there’s no hyperbole here. Three unlucky souls lost their life in one season when they slipped on this innocent looking section of the Llanberis path. The problem being that the path here is a cutting into a steep slope and disappears in deep snow, so you’re crossing a steep snow slope with a dangerous convex and steep slope beneath you. So unless you can stop yourself pretty quickly, you’ll speed up on the steepening slope until you fall over Clogwyn Coch far below. There is a cutting for the railway, but that will also be snowed in and won’t stop the fall."
While younger and (more) stupid I did a few decent walks this time of year and found myself underprepared on a couple of notable occassions.
First off was the Yorkshire three peaks - It wasn't hugely wintery but I was woefully under equipped, I had only a thin pair of running gloves and got my only pair of socks soaked in the bog just after Pen y Ghent (back before the nice path was installed). Ended up descending Ingleborough in the pitch dark. Thank fully I was young and fit.
Second time I was much better prepared going up Hellvelyn via Swirral, however what I didn't anticipate was the deep snow high up. A group much better equipped lent my mate and I an axe each otherwise I doubt we would have succeeded in reaching the top.
I've only done Snowdon in good (frankly fantastic) weather, but my point is so much can change this time of year at altitude (even the modest Yorkshire peaks).
Plenty of warm clothes, food, water, some basic safety kit (first aid, foil blankets, torches, whistles etc) and don't be afraid to back out should it become uncomfortable is the advice I would give my younger self.
First off was the Yorkshire three peaks - It wasn't hugely wintery but I was woefully under equipped, I had only a thin pair of running gloves and got my only pair of socks soaked in the bog just after Pen y Ghent (back before the nice path was installed). Ended up descending Ingleborough in the pitch dark. Thank fully I was young and fit.
Second time I was much better prepared going up Hellvelyn via Swirral, however what I didn't anticipate was the deep snow high up. A group much better equipped lent my mate and I an axe each otherwise I doubt we would have succeeded in reaching the top.
I've only done Snowdon in good (frankly fantastic) weather, but my point is so much can change this time of year at altitude (even the modest Yorkshire peaks).
Plenty of warm clothes, food, water, some basic safety kit (first aid, foil blankets, torches, whistles etc) and don't be afraid to back out should it become uncomfortable is the advice I would give my younger self.
D1bram said:
Plenty of warm clothes, food, water, some basic safety kit (first aid, foil blankets, torches, whistles etc) and don't be afraid to back out should it become uncomfortable is the advice I would give my younger self.
This is a really important point that lots of people miss. Knowing when to turn back is a crucial part of being safe in the mountains, particularly in winter.The mountain will be there next time. Your job is to make sure you are too.
Good advice above already. Particularly the "be prepared to spend the night on the mountain".
Based on mistakes I have made, I would suggest you always have a plan for how you'll get off the hill if things start to go wrong, and don't keep ploughing on just because you don't want to abandon the original plan and "it might be OK". On a hill like Snowdon, if you've stuck to the main paths, the "escape" plan is most likely as simple as "turn around and retrace my steps to the car park". If things begin to feel a bit sketchy, try to have a calm rational think about your situation. Don't let panic force you on. Don't let your ego force you on. Similarly, if in fact things are objectively fine, keep going; nothing wrong with pushing yourself a bit either. It can be hard to be sensible in these situations, but if you're at least consciously aware that you may have to fight your instincts, you've got a better chance of avoiding putting yourself in a stupid position when you "should have known better."
In full winter conditions even the main paths up the back of the corrie above Glaslyn on the side of Garnedd Ugain can become much more than just a walk and should either be avoided altogether or only tackled with some winter gear. But this is rare and should be pretty obvious on the ground. If it is packed in deep snow and there are cornices overhanging the edge of the ridge, either check your insurance and put on your crampons, or stop, enjoy the view then wander back to the car park. In reality, and particularly so far this year, then chance of encountering conditions like that are tiny.
If I was walking in Snowdonia today, I'd make sure I was carrying full waterproofs, a spare fleece, hat and gloves, a bivvy bag and sleeping bag, whistle and headtorch, map and compass, and a walking pole because my ankles are a bit pants and a pole makes it a lot easier to hobble down a hill if I have a twist. That's enough to sit on my arse in discomfort all night in pissing rain and a gale without actually dying of exposure.
When it's open, the cafe on the top of Snowdon certainly used to sell walking socks and gloves should you need a pit stop after getting caught in an unexpected thunderstorm on Crib Goch with generous helpings of hail thrown in in June.
Based on mistakes I have made, I would suggest you always have a plan for how you'll get off the hill if things start to go wrong, and don't keep ploughing on just because you don't want to abandon the original plan and "it might be OK". On a hill like Snowdon, if you've stuck to the main paths, the "escape" plan is most likely as simple as "turn around and retrace my steps to the car park". If things begin to feel a bit sketchy, try to have a calm rational think about your situation. Don't let panic force you on. Don't let your ego force you on. Similarly, if in fact things are objectively fine, keep going; nothing wrong with pushing yourself a bit either. It can be hard to be sensible in these situations, but if you're at least consciously aware that you may have to fight your instincts, you've got a better chance of avoiding putting yourself in a stupid position when you "should have known better."
In full winter conditions even the main paths up the back of the corrie above Glaslyn on the side of Garnedd Ugain can become much more than just a walk and should either be avoided altogether or only tackled with some winter gear. But this is rare and should be pretty obvious on the ground. If it is packed in deep snow and there are cornices overhanging the edge of the ridge, either check your insurance and put on your crampons, or stop, enjoy the view then wander back to the car park. In reality, and particularly so far this year, then chance of encountering conditions like that are tiny.
If I was walking in Snowdonia today, I'd make sure I was carrying full waterproofs, a spare fleece, hat and gloves, a bivvy bag and sleeping bag, whistle and headtorch, map and compass, and a walking pole because my ankles are a bit pants and a pole makes it a lot easier to hobble down a hill if I have a twist. That's enough to sit on my arse in discomfort all night in pissing rain and a gale without actually dying of exposure.
When it's open, the cafe on the top of Snowdon certainly used to sell walking socks and gloves should you need a pit stop after getting caught in an unexpected thunderstorm on Crib Goch with generous helpings of hail thrown in in June.
Summer & winter hill walking are completely different things.
The real equipment you need lies between your ears. You need to be able to navigate from a map and compass, when visibility is down to 20 or thirty meters. Relying on a phone or GPS isn't wise. You also need to know when to call it a day becuase the conditions are beyond you (or your party.)
If you're experienced enough to do that, you'll be fine with everything else.
I took a party of 16 - 20 year olds up The Old Man of Coniston in the summer, then repeated the trip in December. On the winter trip we told the kids that as they knew the route, they were in charge and calling the shots. It was blowing an absolute hooly, it was cold and completely unsuitable conditions, but the path is wide, not too steep and grassy. So it was a great opportunity for them to see a day you'd rather not have been walking. They did successfully call it off before it got dangerous, just as they reached the tarn I think.
The real equipment you need lies between your ears. You need to be able to navigate from a map and compass, when visibility is down to 20 or thirty meters. Relying on a phone or GPS isn't wise. You also need to know when to call it a day becuase the conditions are beyond you (or your party.)
If you're experienced enough to do that, you'll be fine with everything else.
I took a party of 16 - 20 year olds up The Old Man of Coniston in the summer, then repeated the trip in December. On the winter trip we told the kids that as they knew the route, they were in charge and calling the shots. It was blowing an absolute hooly, it was cold and completely unsuitable conditions, but the path is wide, not too steep and grassy. So it was a great opportunity for them to see a day you'd rather not have been walking. They did successfully call it off before it got dangerous, just as they reached the tarn I think.
Took our 8 year old daughter up and down about 3 years ago. We went on a day in May which was supposedly clear blue sky and sun all day. All the walk up was in thick cloud with visibility about 30 feet if that and it only cleared up 4 - 5 hours later on the way back down and was freezing point at the summit. We spent the afternoon then sat in 18 degree sunshine by the lake at Llanberis having fish and chips. We were fully prepared for all weathers though, but, goes to show, never trust a forecast!
towser44 said:
Took our 8 year old daughter up and down about 3 years ago. We went on a day in May which was supposedly clear blue sky and sun all day. All the walk up was in thick cloud with visibility about 30 feet if that and it only cleared up 4 - 5 hours later on the way back down and was freezing point at the summit. We spent the afternoon then sat in 18 degree sunshine by the lake at Llanberis having fish and chips. We were fully prepared for all weathers though, but, goes to show, never trust a forecast!
Yup. Hills can do that.Orographic cloud can form in a matter of minutes on a hill. You don't see it coming. One minute sunny, then BAM all you can see is the next rock! You know, the one that looks just like the last rock.
(My paragliding instructor taught me never to fly in cloud. Mountains and airliners love to hide in clouds.)
I've done a couple of walks in deep winter in the Lakes (Blencathra via Sharp Edge), then from the valley upto Greg's hut at night on top of the Pennines - not sure doing both the same day was smart. Conditions awful in both instances (deep snow and very heavy wind) and the latter was at night (stayed in the hut overnight, I think it was about -10). I'm fit and healthy and did it in kit you'd wear on a cold day in the Surrey Hills, all fine and I think that's the thing, we didn't call it off and just went ahead and did it, but if one of us had f
ked our ankles or something it would have been serious trouble pretty quickly, especially on Sharp Edge, or right up on top of Cross Fell. Worth carrying a bit of extra kit 'just in case'.
ked our ankles or something it would have been serious trouble pretty quickly, especially on Sharp Edge, or right up on top of Cross Fell. Worth carrying a bit of extra kit 'just in case'.Edited by okgo on Monday 17th January 14:22
I do a fair bit of walking in the Peaks in Derbyshire… I prefer the winter generally as there are not so many people around and I enjoy the starkness of the winter landscape.
Kit list for a day walk in winter:
Stuff to carry:
Extra fleece jacket, Mountain Equipment light line down jacket in stuff sack, water, knife, torch, food (plus extra cereal bars & glucose tablets), basic first aid kit, goretex jacket and trousers, foil blanket for emergencies, map, compass, spare socks and a powerbank plus leads.
All carried in an Osprey 38l day pack. Total weight of 8kg ish.
Stuff I wear:
Merino or synthetic base layer
Wicking boxers
Merino socks
Either Fjallraven vidda pro trousers or Craghopper kiwi (kiwi’s are better for warmer conditions)
Rab or Mountain Equipment active fleece
Goretex gaiters (if necessary)
Lowa combat gtx boots
Montane gloves/sealskins if not too cold
Leki walking poles - very important. Won't go a challenging walk without them
Most of that stuff would translate to a Snowdon walk (on about doing this with a mate combined with a wild camp in the near future).
Be sensible, keep your head if anything bad happens and (this is quite important for us blokes) DON’T let macho bullst cloud your decisions.
If something feels wrong, or you are uncertain of your experience, back away and have a go another day. The mountain is going nowhere… only you might not be there to appreciate it.
Kit list for a day walk in winter:
Stuff to carry:
Extra fleece jacket, Mountain Equipment light line down jacket in stuff sack, water, knife, torch, food (plus extra cereal bars & glucose tablets), basic first aid kit, goretex jacket and trousers, foil blanket for emergencies, map, compass, spare socks and a powerbank plus leads.
All carried in an Osprey 38l day pack. Total weight of 8kg ish.
Stuff I wear:
Merino or synthetic base layer
Wicking boxers
Merino socks
Either Fjallraven vidda pro trousers or Craghopper kiwi (kiwi’s are better for warmer conditions)
Rab or Mountain Equipment active fleece
Goretex gaiters (if necessary)
Lowa combat gtx boots
Montane gloves/sealskins if not too cold
Leki walking poles - very important. Won't go a challenging walk without them
Most of that stuff would translate to a Snowdon walk (on about doing this with a mate combined with a wild camp in the near future).
Be sensible, keep your head if anything bad happens and (this is quite important for us blokes) DON’T let macho bulls
t cloud your decisions. If something feels wrong, or you are uncertain of your experience, back away and have a go another day. The mountain is going nowhere… only you might not be there to appreciate it.
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