E9x M3….am I looking at a world of financial pain?

[Court_S]

I’m finding myself more and more drawn to an E9x M3. In an ideal world I’d buy an E90 but they’re rare and expensive when they do cine up so I’m more than happy with the idea of an E92.

I know it’ll drink fuel and the VED is eye watering. I’m also aware of issues with the throttle actuators and rod bearings but what is the rest of the engine like for reliability? Do they like to leak with age like an N52?

I’m happy getting stuck in replacing things like discs and pads, suspension components which helps take the sting out of running costs.

I missed the boat on E46 M3’s which are now strong money for a good one and I’m not sure I’d want to use one most days.

An M2 seemed like the logical move from my M140i until prices went nuts. Whilst I really like them, the draw of the N/A V8 us strong.

[Arranguez]

I’d not say mine was expensive but I do very few miles. Had front pads and disks done last year for about £700. It is under warranty which is £70 a month but I’d have been better off, by FAR, saving that and self-warranting.

Brake service is due soon which is about £80 from memory.

[Court_S]

Thanks for that. How long have you owned it?

[nickfrog]

I have noticed that M2 prices have softened a little bit after their peak over the past few weeks.

I think they are still excellent VFM even at the higher prices. I think they had gone too low before Covid for some reason.

They may still depreciate a bit more than older cars (although in manual guise I am not even sure) but that's bound to be at least partially and if not totally offset by lower tax, insurance, servicing, fuel consumption, risk of big bills.

[Bemmer]

Don't know were your based or what your budget is? But this place always seem to have all three of what your looking for. www.cramag.com

[Mr Tidy]

Given that you seem much happier with your 130i than with the M140i it replaced maybe an N/A engine is the way to go - and an S65 has to be one of the greatest before everything ended up with a turbo, flappy paddles and fake sound-tracks. We'll never see the like again.

I don't know much about them other than the rod bearing shell issues, but any M car with an "S" engine has to be a special event and maybe too good an opportunity to miss out on. If 2 seats would work Z4 MCs seem like a bargain compared to E46 M3s!

Different car admittedly, but I went from an E86 3.0Si Z4 Coupe with the same engine as your 130i to an M Coupe with the S54 engine 2 years ago and it's much the same but with the volume turned up from 10 to 15! Even if running costs go from 10 to 20.

Heart definitely ruled head and it would be into 3 figures in third before hitting the rev-limiter, so while it is a brief ride it's really special.

Maybe you should see if you can try an E9* M3 before you commit.

Good luck anyway.

Edited by Mr Tidy on Tuesday 18th January 23:05

[cerb4.5lee]

My BIL has had his E93 M3 for 10 years now, and other than the sat nav packing up, absolutely nothing has gone wrong with it. It is a weekend car though, and he doesn't do all that many miles in it(around 1500 miles a year).

[TheAngryDog]

Do it. Ignore what lee says about lack of torque. Hang on, he didn't mention it .

Seriously though, just do it. The engine is lovely.

Rod bearings, throttle actuators and injectors are the main things.

[Court_S]

Mr Tidy said:

Given that you seem much happier with your 130i than with the M140i it replaced maybe an N/A engine is the way to go - and an S65 has to be one of the greatest before everything ended up with a turbo, flappy paddles and fake sound-tracks. We'll never see the like again.

I don't know much about them other than the rod bearing shell issues, but any M car with an "S" engine has to be a special event and maybe too good an opportunity to miss out on. If 2 seats would work Z4 MCs seem like a bargain compared to E46 M3s!

Different car admittedly, but I went from an E86 3.0Si Z4 Coupe with the same engine as your 130i to an M Coupe with the S54 engine 2 years ago and it's much the same but with the volume turned up from 10 to 15! Even if running costs go from 10 to 20.

Heart definitely ruled head and it would be into 3 figures in third before hitting the rev-limiter, so while it is a brief ride it's really special.

Maybe you should see if you can try an E9* M3 before you commit.

Good luck anyway.

Edited by Mr Tidy on Tuesday 18th January 23:05

I’ve driven my uncles old E90 M3 (DCT) a fair few times and I really, really liked it. There was a real zing to the car that other BMW’s I’ve had or driven did it have.

I did toy with the idea of buying that off him at the time I ordered my M140i but I bottled it. Looking at the prices of E90 M3’s now that was a mistake….

cerb4.5lee said:

My BIL has had his E93 M3 for 10 years now, and other than the sat nav packing up, absolutely nothing has gone wrong with it. It is a weekend car though, and he doesn't do all that many miles in it(around 1500 miles a year).

Thant’s good to know. The one my uncle had was reliable in the 18 months or are he had it.

TheAngryDog said:

Do it. Ignore what lee says about lack of torque. Hang on, he didn't mention it .

Seriously though, just do it. The engine is lovely.

Rod bearings, throttle actuators and injectors are the main things.

Ha ha. I didn’t really notice the lack of torque in the one that I’ve driven. The engine was amazing and it loved to rev.

My uncle is an absolute RS fanboy but the M3 lasted longer than any of the RS4’s or RS6’s he’s had. He described it as a car that grows on you.

I was wondering if they liked leaking oil as much as other BMW V8’s.

[Court_S]

nickfrog said:

I have noticed that M2 prices have softened a little bit after their peak over the past few weeks.

I think they are still excellent VFM even at the higher prices. I think they had gone too low before Covid for some reason.

They may still depreciate a bit more than older cars (although in manual guise I am not even sure) but that's bound to be at least partially and if not totally offset by lower tax, insurance, servicing, fuel consumption, risk of big bills.

I’ve noticed that they’ve softened a tad too. I think I’m hung up on the fact that there was a good selection at £26-28k on the AUC site.

The running costs are lower as you said, it’s just whether I’m willing to pay the entry fee! One went past me on Saturday at full chat and it sounded bloody good, so much better then the B58 I had in my M140i.

[cerb4.5lee]

TheAngryDog said:

Do it. Ignore what lee says about lack of torque. Hang on, he didn't mention it .

The DCT really suits the S65 engine I reckon(even though mine was a manual). What gearbox will you go for Sam?

[Jefferson Steelflex]

My current car is a 21k miles E92 M3, and i’ll tell anyone who’ll listen it’s the best all-round car i’ve ever had. It replaced a couple of Porkers and it really has just grown on me.

Six months in, hasn’t cost me a penny except tyres, but being low miles i’d not expect big bills for a while. But that engine is it sounds amazing and it feels as quick as anything i’ve driven before. I sort of stumbled on this car as a short term stop-gap to another 911, but i’ll be keeping it for while i think. Just an event every time i drive it.

Costs aren’t too bad, probably 20mpg is about as good as it gets and of course £600 VED but these are known expenses and these cars don’t throw up too many expensive bills. Even the actuators and bearings are relatively cheap (permanent) fixes when they’re needed. The previous owner of my car did the actuators and they have a lifetime warranty, cost him £500.

[nickfrog]

Court_S said:

I’ve noticed that they’ve softened a tad too. I think I’m hung up on the fact that there was a good selection at £26-28k on the AUC site.

The running costs are lower as you said, it’s just whether I’m willing to pay the entry fee! One went past me on Saturday at full chat and it sounded bloody good, so much better then the B58 I had in my M140i.

So much for fake sound.

And it might even have been a manual for all we know.

Doesn't the uplift you got from your M140i compared to what it was worth when the M2s bottomed out in 2019 offset for the delta in M2 prices? In other words, perhaps the cost to change may have been similar if COVID hadn't happened.

[Court_S]

cerb4.5lee said:

The DCT really suits the S65 engine I reckon(even though mine was a manual). What gearbox will you go for Sam?

I’m honestly not fussed these days, it more about finding the right / good car. This time last year, I was firmly in the DCT only camp, but having gone back to a manual in May, I wouldn’t rule one out.

Jefferson Steelflex said:

My current car is a 21k miles E92 M3, and i’ll tell anyone who’ll listen it’s the best all-round car i’ve ever had. It replaced a couple of Porkers and it really has just grown on me.

Six months in, hasn’t cost me a penny except tyres, but being low miles i’d not expect big bills for a while. But that engine is it sounds amazing and it feels as quick as anything i’ve driven before. I sort of stumbled on this car as a short term stop-gap to another 911, but i’ll be keeping it for while i think. Just an event every time i drive it.

Costs aren’t too bad, probably 20mpg is about as good as it gets and of course £600 VED but these are known expenses and these cars don’t throw up too many expensive bills. Even the actuators and bearings are relatively cheap (permanent) fixes when they’re needed. The previous owner of my car did the actuators and they have a lifetime warranty, cost him £500.

Hats good to hear. I’d likely be buying one with more miles on the clock. My M140i did 28mpg (sane as the current 130i), so worse but not drastically so.

Your experience seems to mirror that if my uncles who bought one because it was there / not that expensive but actually really got under his skin.

nickfrog said:

So much for fake sound.

And it might even have been a manual for all we know.

Doesn't the uplift you got from your M140i compared to what it was worth when the M2s bottomed out in 2019 offset for the delta in M2 prices? In other words, perhaps the cost to change may have been similar if COVID hadn't happened.

That’s true actually, pre Covid my M140i would have been worth about 10 pence so the cost to change probably isn’t that great. I’d like to try an M2 and an M3 back to back, it’d be an interesting experiment to see which grabs me more.

[benm3evo]

I've had my e92 for 7ish years, I've done about 20k miles in it. Off the top of my head -

Every ABS sensor has been changed.
The brake vacuum pressure sensor failed
Thermostat got stuck open

All about done by myself (or the old man!) so not so much wallet abuse by the BMW dealer.

I think that is it as regards problems.
I have done the rod bearings as preventative maintenance & I think it's probably due a new battery soon as it went into limp mode the other day with various messages relating to battery discharge but was ok after a re-charge. It doesn't get used much so no surprise with the battery.

I make sure it's serviced every year, no matter what the iDrive says, that costs a couple of quid as it takes around 9 litres of oil.

I get around 21mpg, don't usually do any town driving though, I imagine that would kill it a bit.

Overall, I'm not complaining at all & there's certainly nothing I'd want to replace it with.

[Court_S]

cerb4.5lee said:

The DCT really suits the S65 engine I reckon(even though mine was a manual). What gearbox will you go for Sam?

I’m honestly not fussed these days, it more about finding the right / good car. This time last year, I was firmly in the DCT only camp, but having gone back to a manual in May, I wouldn’t rule one out.

Jefferson Steelflex said:

My current car is a 21k miles E92 M3, and i’ll tell anyone who’ll listen it’s the best all-round car i’ve ever had. It replaced a couple of Porkers and it really has just grown on me.

Six months in, hasn’t cost me a penny except tyres, but being low miles i’d not expect big bills for a while. But that engine is it sounds amazing and it feels as quick as anything i’ve driven before. I sort of stumbled on this car as a short term stop-gap to another 911, but i’ll be keeping it for while i think. Just an event every time i drive it.

Costs aren’t too bad, probably 20mpg is about as good as it gets and of course £600 VED but these are known expenses and these cars don’t throw up too many expensive bills. Even the actuators and bearings are relatively cheap (permanent) fixes when they’re needed. The previous owner of my car did the actuators and they have a lifetime warranty, cost him £500.

Hats good to hear. I’d likely be buying one with more miles on the clock. My M140i did 28mpg (sane as the current 130i), so worse but not drastically so.

Your experience seems to mirror that if my uncles who bought one because it was there / not that expensive but actually really got under his skin.

nickfrog said:

So much for fake sound.

And it might even have been a manual for all we know.

Doesn't the uplift you got from your M140i compared to what it was worth when the M2s bottomed out in 2019 offset for the delta in M2 prices? In other words, perhaps the cost to change may have been similar if COVID hadn't happened.

That’s true actually, pre Covid my M140i would have been worth about 10 pence so the cost to change probably isn’t that great. I’d like to try an M2 and an M3 back to back, it’d be an interesting experiment to see which grabs me more.

[acme]

As you’ll know from my previous thread I’ve got a manual 2013 E92, it’s a low miles AUC car I bought in July ’19, it took me 2+ years to find, AUC low miler LCI manuals are like rocking horse poo!

Also as you’ll know I was looking to sell it and my daily Fiesta ST and consolidate into a M140, that was until I drove one……

It’s very easy to become complacent about it & the S65, ‘til you drive something else!

Cost wise it’s costing me 2.2k per annum to sit there – 600VED, 1000 BMW warranty, 600 insurance, & then there’s fuel (20mpg, 25 on a gentle motorway cruise), servicing, consumables etc.

Having test driven one I fully see why many say DCT suits it better, and you can certainly access the top end more easily, but I had to have a manual, its like will never be seen again.

Once on it it’s quite something, but you so rarely get that opportunity (especially if you're mechanically sympathetic and allow the 10w-60 to fully warm), it really feels up on its toes and transforms. Annoyances at regular speeds it feels quite ordinary, 'til you lower the window and hear that engine, and the fuel tank resembles that of a gnats bladder, I regularly re-fill at 200 miles.

If you can afford it, don’t do many miles and are prepared to accept its short comings I wholeheartedly recommend.

I am still likely to sell mine in the Spring.

[Court_S]

acme said:

As you’ll know from my previous thread I’ve got a manual 2013 E92, it’s a low miles AUC car I bought in July ’19, it took me 2+ years to find, AUC low miler LCI manuals are like rocking horse poo!

Also as you’ll know I was looking to sell it and my daily Fiesta ST and consolidate into a M140, that was until I drove one……

It’s very easy to become complacent about it & the S65, ‘til you drive something else!

Cost wise it’s costing me 2.2k per annum to sit there – 600VED, 1000 BMW warranty, 600 insurance, & then there’s fuel (20mpg, 25 on a gentle motorway cruise), servicing, consumables etc.

Having test driven one I fully see why many say DCT suits it better, and you can certainly access the top end more easily, but I had to have a manual, its like will never be seen again.

Once on it it’s quite something, but you so rarely get that opportunity (especially if you're mechanically sympathetic and allow the 10w-60 to fully warm), it really feels up on its toes and transforms. Annoyances at regular speeds it feels quite ordinary, 'til you lower the window and hear that engine, and the fuel tank resembles that of a gnats bladder, I regularly re-fill at 200 miles.

If you can afford it, don’t do many miles and are prepared to accept its short comings I wholeheartedly recommend.

I am still likely to sell mine in the Spring.

Thanks for that.

I think I’m happy with the costs (I’ve pissed away a lot of money on my recent cars). VED and insurance are about double what I’m paying (insurance is less than my M140i was).

I’m massively drawn to that engine especially as we’ll never see it’s sort again. I’m of the opinion at the moment that I’d rather have one, experience it and get shot of the shortcomings are too great.

[custardkid]

I technically went m135i to E92 M3
.. but one was a daily the other isn't

If it's a daily it'll be wasted .. but as a WFH home or a summer car alongside a 120d or something you won't regret it

Try finding another V8 that revs to 8,400 rpm

... They also handle better than many a sports GT car

[acme]

Court_S said:

Thanks for that.

I think I’m happy with the costs (I’ve pissed away a lot of money on my recent cars). VED and insurance are about double what I’m paying (insurance is less than my M140i was).

I’m massively drawn to that engine especially as we’ll never see it’s sort again. I’m of the opinion at the moment that I’d rather have one, experience it and get shot of the shortcomings are too great.

Logically if you buy sensibly depreciation should be minimal so total cost of ownership is semi reasonable.

I’d totally agree that we just won’t get the chance in the future. I really do fear they’ll clamp down on ICE cars and it’ll become almost impossible even if they’re still legal!