Employee taking a lot of sick days
Discussion
We're a tiny business and an employee of ours is taking an annoying amount of sick days, it's consistently on a Monday (and probably the Tuesday too) and being such a small business it has a really detrimental impact on things. I can't imagine it's a weekend of partying that causes the frequent Monday illness as he's just not that kind of person and has a young family.
His contract allows for a set amount of fully paid sick in a year, and last year he took exactly that amount of days which seems very convenient. He works from home 100% of the time and the job is entirely digital. For the most part he is good at what he does, reliable and hard working. He gets plenty of flexibility around picking his kid up from school, vets appointments for his cats etc... whatever he asks for really within reason.... but the role requires him to be at his desk and answering client emails for the majority of the working day and he has regular tasks throughout the week that need to be completed.
Obviously if he's ill I want him to be able to take time off, but whilst I could well be a little paranoid, I don't think he's ill as much as he says he is and the fact that it is nearly always a Monday and that he took the exact amount of full paid sick leave last year that he is allowed in his contract rings alarm bells. It feels to me that he is using the paid sick to top up his holiday allowance.
As I said, we're a really tiny business, this absence has a really negative impact and we just can't keep supporting this type of behaviour. What i'd like to do is de-incentivise it by making all sick days statutory sick pay only, but I can't change his contract without him agreeing.
Does anybody have any experience of dealing with this type of thing effectively? The only idea I had was talking to him about it, explaining my concerns and offering a small pay rise and a revised contract with statutory sick pay only for all absence aside from annual leave. The pay rise feels like a bit of an undeserved reward but at the same time i'd rather pay him a bit more and be able to rely on him showing up on a Monday morning.
His contract allows for a set amount of fully paid sick in a year, and last year he took exactly that amount of days which seems very convenient. He works from home 100% of the time and the job is entirely digital. For the most part he is good at what he does, reliable and hard working. He gets plenty of flexibility around picking his kid up from school, vets appointments for his cats etc... whatever he asks for really within reason.... but the role requires him to be at his desk and answering client emails for the majority of the working day and he has regular tasks throughout the week that need to be completed.
Obviously if he's ill I want him to be able to take time off, but whilst I could well be a little paranoid, I don't think he's ill as much as he says he is and the fact that it is nearly always a Monday and that he took the exact amount of full paid sick leave last year that he is allowed in his contract rings alarm bells. It feels to me that he is using the paid sick to top up his holiday allowance.
As I said, we're a really tiny business, this absence has a really negative impact and we just can't keep supporting this type of behaviour. What i'd like to do is de-incentivise it by making all sick days statutory sick pay only, but I can't change his contract without him agreeing.
Does anybody have any experience of dealing with this type of thing effectively? The only idea I had was talking to him about it, explaining my concerns and offering a small pay rise and a revised contract with statutory sick pay only for all absence aside from annual leave. The pay rise feels like a bit of an undeserved reward but at the same time i'd rather pay him a bit more and be able to rely on him showing up on a Monday morning.
i had this when managing a small team of 9 employees a few years ago.
One employee certainly seemed to know how to play the game in terms of time off, sick leave, parental needs /even religious holidays etc.
It ended up with a chat with myself and HR manager - no disciplinary mentioned - but we had a serious discussion about his motivation for the job and the team. HR manager asked him about what motivates him to do the job, what he enjoyed about his role, what he thought his career path could look like, where he struggled in his role, and a great question - what skills did his team mates have that he would like to learn or develop.
The conversation with the employee itself was very interesting.
His behaviour, defensiveness, and outright guilt exhibited did show that we had caught him out.
His responses were totally negative - could not demonstrate any initiative about the job, no desire to deliver anything on top of his minimal requirements, and totally argued he was delivering against his tasks. (He wasn't). During the conversation, we did tell him that he had taken almost as many days absence compared to all of the other team members combined.
HR manager was insistent that no carrots were dangled in terms of extra days off/salary/bonuses until the employee met expected behaviour (as in, doing their job and turning up on time).
What we did announce to the team was that employee bonuses were to be linked with attendance and job KPI's (that if you did your job, you could meet them and be considered for a bonus).
As for that employee, we established that any further absence, for whatever reason, would require direct contact with HR manager on the day of absence (he couldn't just email his boss to say he was ill) and could begin a PIP.
He lasted a month before taking another day off for sickness - did not call the HR manager as previously agreed and when notified that he would have another HR meeting, he resigned.
One employee certainly seemed to know how to play the game in terms of time off, sick leave, parental needs /even religious holidays etc.
It ended up with a chat with myself and HR manager - no disciplinary mentioned - but we had a serious discussion about his motivation for the job and the team. HR manager asked him about what motivates him to do the job, what he enjoyed about his role, what he thought his career path could look like, where he struggled in his role, and a great question - what skills did his team mates have that he would like to learn or develop.
The conversation with the employee itself was very interesting.
His behaviour, defensiveness, and outright guilt exhibited did show that we had caught him out.
His responses were totally negative - could not demonstrate any initiative about the job, no desire to deliver anything on top of his minimal requirements, and totally argued he was delivering against his tasks. (He wasn't). During the conversation, we did tell him that he had taken almost as many days absence compared to all of the other team members combined.
HR manager was insistent that no carrots were dangled in terms of extra days off/salary/bonuses until the employee met expected behaviour (as in, doing their job and turning up on time).
What we did announce to the team was that employee bonuses were to be linked with attendance and job KPI's (that if you did your job, you could meet them and be considered for a bonus).
As for that employee, we established that any further absence, for whatever reason, would require direct contact with HR manager on the day of absence (he couldn't just email his boss to say he was ill) and could begin a PIP.
He lasted a month before taking another day off for sickness - did not call the HR manager as previously agreed and when notified that he would have another HR meeting, he resigned.
sly fox said:
i had this when managing a small team of 9 employees a few years ago.
One employee certainly seemed to know how to play the game in terms of time off, sick leave, parental needs /even religious holidays etc.
It ended up with a chat with myself and HR manager - no disciplinary mentioned - but we had a serious discussion about his motivation for the job and the team. HR manager asked him about what motivates him to do the job, what he enjoyed about his role, what he thought his career path could look like, where he struggled in his role, and a great question - what skills did his team mates have that he would like to learn or develop.
The conversation with the employee itself was very interesting.
His behaviour, defensiveness, and outright guilt exhibited did show that we had caught him out.
His responses were totally negative - could not demonstrate any initiative about the job, no desire to deliver anything on top of his minimal requirements, and totally argued he was delivering against his tasks. (He wasn't). During the conversation, we did tell him that he had taken almost as many days absence compared to all of the other team members combined.
HR manager was insistent that no carrots were dangled in terms of extra days off/salary/bonuses until the employee met expected behaviour (as in, doing their job and turning up on time).
What we did announce to the team was that employee bonuses were to be linked with attendance and job KPI's (that if you did your job, you could meet them and be considered for a bonus).
As for that employee, we established that any further absence, for whatever reason, would require direct contact with HR manager on the day of absence (he couldn't just email his boss to say he was ill) and could begin a PIP.
He lasted a month before taking another day off for sickness - did not call the HR manager as previously agreed and when notified that he would have another HR meeting, he resigned.
Thanks Sly Fox, really helpful. This is slightly different as for the most part our guy is a model employee, he does the job well and efficiently. I think I do need to have an honest discussion with him about it though and I like the points about establishing that any further absence would be met with direct contact (can't just drop an email which is what he does currently) and also to discuss that bonuses were linked to attendance (He got a decent Christmas bonus despite a lot of sick days in Nov/Dec).One employee certainly seemed to know how to play the game in terms of time off, sick leave, parental needs /even religious holidays etc.
It ended up with a chat with myself and HR manager - no disciplinary mentioned - but we had a serious discussion about his motivation for the job and the team. HR manager asked him about what motivates him to do the job, what he enjoyed about his role, what he thought his career path could look like, where he struggled in his role, and a great question - what skills did his team mates have that he would like to learn or develop.
The conversation with the employee itself was very interesting.
His behaviour, defensiveness, and outright guilt exhibited did show that we had caught him out.
His responses were totally negative - could not demonstrate any initiative about the job, no desire to deliver anything on top of his minimal requirements, and totally argued he was delivering against his tasks. (He wasn't). During the conversation, we did tell him that he had taken almost as many days absence compared to all of the other team members combined.
HR manager was insistent that no carrots were dangled in terms of extra days off/salary/bonuses until the employee met expected behaviour (as in, doing their job and turning up on time).
What we did announce to the team was that employee bonuses were to be linked with attendance and job KPI's (that if you did your job, you could meet them and be considered for a bonus).
As for that employee, we established that any further absence, for whatever reason, would require direct contact with HR manager on the day of absence (he couldn't just email his boss to say he was ill) and could begin a PIP.
He lasted a month before taking another day off for sickness - did not call the HR manager as previously agreed and when notified that he would have another HR meeting, he resigned.
Simpo Two said:
Not my area, but doesn't sick leave require a doctor's certificate? You can't have staff thinking 'I want to cut the grass today, I'll say I'm ill'.
His contract stipulates if he is off for 7 or more days in a row he needs a doctors certificate, I don't think he has ever been off for more than 2 days at a time... just a lot of 2 day blocks of absence.... but yeah, I think a lot of this is 'I want to cut the grass today' type stuff.phil y said:
I think having a specified amount of allowed sick days is an issue, as employees will know how much time off they can get away with.
I absolutely agree... to my detriment this was an out of the box employment contract and I perhaps didn't review the finer details as much as I should have. milfordkong said:
His contract stipulates if he is off for 7 or more days in a row he needs a doctors certificate, I don't think he has ever been off for more than 2 days at a time... just a lot of 2 day blocks of absence.... but yeah, I think a lot of this is 'I want to cut the grass today' type stuff.
And law now says 28 days absence before sick note (temporary measure).https://www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave
phil y said:
I think having a specified amount of allowed sick days is an issue, as employees will know how much time off they can get away with.
This. I have been asked several times over the years "whether I have taken all my sick leave that year". Pi**es me off the attitude but there you go - generally speaking these are not high achievers, but people sleepwalking through life with no desire, motivation or ambition to do anything worthwhile with their time on this planet.Do you do return to work interviews with him?
Do you have a sickness/absence policy?
For the former, this can seem like an unnecessary hassle, but it's vital with an employee who is taking a lot of time off. You need to probe why they're regularly sick - Is this a recurring illness? Are they having regular treatment from a Doctor?
Their answers will form part of your basis for action in the future. Nobody has a heavy cold/food poisoning/etc for 28 days a year, 2 days at a time - for example.
You need to be professional about this, so take proper training if you don't have it - you can't accuse them of anything underhand and you can't probe too deeply into personal matters. You need to play it factual.
However, it does make the employee aware that the light is being shined on their time off and that it's being noticed. Sometimes, this can be enough for them to tone it down.
The sickness/absence policy is also vital. It's perfectly possible to manage sickness and, if an employee has time off sick without good reason that is above what is reasonable, to manage them out of your business as a result. But, it needs to be documented via a proper policy and policed accordingly.
Again, take proper training if you need to our contract this out.
Do you have a sickness/absence policy?
For the former, this can seem like an unnecessary hassle, but it's vital with an employee who is taking a lot of time off. You need to probe why they're regularly sick - Is this a recurring illness? Are they having regular treatment from a Doctor?
Their answers will form part of your basis for action in the future. Nobody has a heavy cold/food poisoning/etc for 28 days a year, 2 days at a time - for example.
You need to be professional about this, so take proper training if you don't have it - you can't accuse them of anything underhand and you can't probe too deeply into personal matters. You need to play it factual.
However, it does make the employee aware that the light is being shined on their time off and that it's being noticed. Sometimes, this can be enough for them to tone it down.
The sickness/absence policy is also vital. It's perfectly possible to manage sickness and, if an employee has time off sick without good reason that is above what is reasonable, to manage them out of your business as a result. But, it needs to be documented via a proper policy and policed accordingly.
Again, take proper training if you need to our contract this out.
Maybe have a preliminary talk with him along the lines of saying you've noticed a lot of sick days, you're concerned for his well being, and is there anything you can do to help overcome this? Then if he says no, keep an eye on it, see if it encourages him to turn it down a bit. If not then go to stage 2, "I've offereed help, but it's now impacting the business unacceptably" etc. And in the mean time be on the look out for a replacement employee...
A close family member has just retired from their role as Head of Employment Law at a major City financial institution. This is their suggestion.
TAKE LEGAL ADVICE.
This issue is fraught with potential difficulties. First get proper legal advice.Theres a proper process for this situation.
One option is to have a chat with the chap about your concerns.
Establish if there's an underlying illness that may be a disability by sending him to an Occupational Health specialist doctor.
And.....
GET LEGAL ADVICE.
TAKE LEGAL ADVICE.
This issue is fraught with potential difficulties. First get proper legal advice.Theres a proper process for this situation.
One option is to have a chat with the chap about your concerns.
Establish if there's an underlying illness that may be a disability by sending him to an Occupational Health specialist doctor.
And.....
GET LEGAL ADVICE.
Seems a bit stingy taking all paid sick leave away, surely you'd have to do that for everyone? A business that did that I wouldn't consider looks after their staff particularly well.
That said it's quite clear he's taking the piss and you need to sit down and find out why.
Maybe he thinks he's underpaid for the work by 20% and he feels he's getting his own back.
That said it's quite clear he's taking the piss and you need to sit down and find out why.
Maybe he thinks he's underpaid for the work by 20% and he feels he's getting his own back.
I've dealt with people on this and the most useful thing was a colour chart highlighting Monday and Friday sickness. Funny how people's behaviour changed when you show them their own pattern and that you know it. Don't be afraid to confront it, there is nothing wrong with challenging it. Funny how it will stop when you manage it.
Muzzer79 said:
Do you do return to work interviews with him?
Do you have a sickness/absence policy?
For the former, this can seem like an unnecessary hassle, but it's vital with an employee who is taking a lot of time off. You need to probe why they're regularly sick - Is this a recurring illness? Are they having regular treatment from a Doctor?
Their answers will form part of your basis for action in the future. Nobody has a heavy cold/food poisoning/etc for 28 days a year, 2 days at a time - for example.
You need to be professional about this, so take proper training if you don't have it - you can't accuse them of anything underhand and you can't probe too deeply into personal matters. You need to play it factual.
However, it does make the employee aware that the light is being shined on their time off and that it's being noticed. Sometimes, this can be enough for them to tone it down.
The sickness/absence policy is also vital. It's perfectly possible to manage sickness and, if an employee has time off sick without good reason that is above what is reasonable, to manage them out of your business as a result. But, it needs to be documented via a proper policy and policed accordingly.
Again, take proper training if you need to our contract this out.
Thanks Muzzer, no return to work interviews - but this is something that should definitely be implemented. Definitely plan to be professional, and perhaps training is a good idea. The idea of accusing him of something underhand being inappropriate has certainly crossed my mind, and tough to play it factual when I really have no facts... just an idea that being ill for 2 days on a Monday/Tuesday at least once a month seems unlikely and suspicious as well as being really bloody annoying as an employer who needs the work he's paid for to get done. Do you have a sickness/absence policy?
For the former, this can seem like an unnecessary hassle, but it's vital with an employee who is taking a lot of time off. You need to probe why they're regularly sick - Is this a recurring illness? Are they having regular treatment from a Doctor?
Their answers will form part of your basis for action in the future. Nobody has a heavy cold/food poisoning/etc for 28 days a year, 2 days at a time - for example.
You need to be professional about this, so take proper training if you don't have it - you can't accuse them of anything underhand and you can't probe too deeply into personal matters. You need to play it factual.
However, it does make the employee aware that the light is being shined on their time off and that it's being noticed. Sometimes, this can be enough for them to tone it down.
The sickness/absence policy is also vital. It's perfectly possible to manage sickness and, if an employee has time off sick without good reason that is above what is reasonable, to manage them out of your business as a result. But, it needs to be documented via a proper policy and policed accordingly.
Again, take proper training if you need to our contract this out.
Always a sensitive issue firstly you need to establish if there is an underlying issue, we use the Bradford Factor to monitor absence
E² x D = Bradford Factor
E = the number of instances of absence
D = the total number of days absent in a 52-week period
this works as follows
(a) One absence of 10 days = 1 x 1 x 10 = 10 points
(b) 3 absences of 1 day, 3 days and 6 days – 3 x 3 x 10 = 90 points
(c) 5 absences of two days each – 5 x 5 x 10 = 250 points
(d) Ten absences of one day each – 10 x 10 x 10 = 1,000 points
obviously you can apply your own rules but
51 points – verbal warning.
201 points – written warning
401 points - Final warning
As stated you first need to establish if there is an underlying reason health or otherwise but if they are just extracting the p then it is a useful tool
E² x D = Bradford Factor
E = the number of instances of absence
D = the total number of days absent in a 52-week period
this works as follows
(a) One absence of 10 days = 1 x 1 x 10 = 10 points
(b) 3 absences of 1 day, 3 days and 6 days – 3 x 3 x 10 = 90 points
(c) 5 absences of two days each – 5 x 5 x 10 = 250 points
(d) Ten absences of one day each – 10 x 10 x 10 = 1,000 points
obviously you can apply your own rules but
51 points – verbal warning.
201 points – written warning
401 points - Final warning
As stated you first need to establish if there is an underlying reason health or otherwise but if they are just extracting the p then it is a useful tool
I had this.
I supported the guy for ages, running him to the doctors, picking up prescriptions etc.
In the end he just took the pee so I fired him. Sometimes you just need to bite the bullet & then deal with the fallout.
(there was no fallout in this case, he didn't have the stomach for a scrap...which is often the way)
I supported the guy for ages, running him to the doctors, picking up prescriptions etc.
In the end he just took the pee so I fired him. Sometimes you just need to bite the bullet & then deal with the fallout.
(there was no fallout in this case, he didn't have the stomach for a scrap...which is often the way)
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