Any H&S bods in here?
Any H&S bods in here?
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Discussion

technodup

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

146 months

Monday 24th January 2022
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Got a query relating to working at height and the rules around it. I'll not fill up the page trying ti explain it but it should be straightforward for someone in the know...

-BFG-

160 posts

56 months

Tuesday 25th January 2022
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What do you need to know ? (Not strictly H&S but I cover it daily)

dundarach

5,726 posts

244 months

Tuesday 25th January 2022
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training training training

equipment equipment equipment

all documented



before you even begin

55palfers

6,137 posts

180 months

Tuesday 25th January 2022
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Retired CMIOSH. Need some specific questions.

lewes

361 posts

192 months

Tuesday 25th January 2022
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Fire away, fully conversant with the WAH regs.

technodup

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

146 months

Wednesday 26th January 2022
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We install windows for domestic customers. They are a lot of tenement flats in Glasgow and most companies shy away form doing the upper floors due to H&S, insurance or other concerns (I'm never sure if it's a convenient excuse as lugging huge window up three flights of stairs isn't easy).

So if we want to install windows at max 3rd floor level... what do we need to do? Most of the work is done with feet on the floor, however at certain points they would stand on the cill, not outside the building line but still aiui 'at height'. A scaffold isn't hugely practical, we sometimes use towers for other things but again not hugely practical as need a second van to move it in. So we come to restraints, and this is the question, if the guy wears a fall arrest or restraint harness/rope, what/where does he anchor it to, bearing in mind it's someone's home?

Or is there some other way I haven't thought of?

Tom8

4,496 posts

170 months

Wednesday 26th January 2022
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Anchor points must be certified and tested and there won't be any in homes. Scaffold and or platforms would be the only way to do that type of work safely even if it is a pain.

joshleb

1,548 posts

160 months

Wednesday 26th January 2022
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No scope for telehandler with working platform? With proper fall arrests etc?


skilly1

2,785 posts

211 months

skilly1

2,785 posts

211 months

Groat

5,637 posts

127 months

Wednesday 26th January 2022
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technodup said:
There are a lot of tenement flats in Glasgow and most companies shy away form doing the upper floors due to H&S, insurance or other concerns (I'm never sure if it's a convenient excuse as lugging huge window up three flights of stairs isn't easy).
Having done at least 100 2nd and 3rd floor DG installations in and around Glasgow I can categorically state that you're talking nonsense.

They're done every day and don't need to be done off cherry pickers, towers or scaffolding. The ONLY thing they MIGHT need is somebody on the pavement below to ensure passerby safety from falling debris (which really only needs the fitter to take care to prevent anyway).



technodup

Original Poster:

7,608 posts

146 months

Wednesday 26th January 2022
quotequote all
Groat said:
technodup said:
There are a lot of tenement flats in Glasgow and most companies shy away form doing the upper floors due to H&S, insurance or other concerns (I'm never sure if it's a convenient excuse as lugging huge window up three flights of stairs isn't easy).
Having done at least 100 2nd and 3rd floor DG installations in and around Glasgow I can categorically state that you're talking nonsense.

They're done every day and don't need to be done off cherry pickers, towers or scaffolding. The ONLY thing they MIGHT need is somebody on the pavement below to ensure passerby safety from falling debris (which really only needs the fitter to take care to prevent anyway).
I'm not interested in someone who's done it, I know plenty of them. I'm interested in someone who knows the legalities of it, which is why I asked for a H&S person. Whether it's 'most' or 'some' who don't do it isn't the point, I get calls on an almost daily basis from people being refused by other local businesses. There's a reason they're refusing work and I'm trying to find out what it is. Can they not be arsed with the stairs? Has their insurance warned them off? Do they not want to spend on H&S or deal with the fallout from an accident? Have they misunderstood something along the way? I don't know.

As for the useful answers above, thanks. I'll speak to our insurers and take their advice. If we're going to do them I want to make sure I'm covered as far as possible.







dudleybloke

20,553 posts

202 months

Wednesday 26th January 2022
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Couple of these signs should be all you need.


Groat

5,637 posts

127 months

Wednesday 26th January 2022
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rofl

( Of course, if you've much involvement in tradeswork in a city, sooner or later you'd get involved with projects which are council or insurer supervised including mandatory involvement of CS and other qualified professional overseers and managers. And these not infrequently require very tight adherence to manifold regulatory regimes. So you'd be very familiar with any special requirements for things like window installation in upper floors.

But hey ho! What does experience buy you at the shops? )

wink

Edited by Groat on Wednesday 26th January 20:53

rufmeister

1,449 posts

138 months

Wednesday 26th January 2022
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How about a rope grab system? We use these for places where there is no safe system of work.

https://www.heightsafety.uk.com/product/miller-aut...

You need to be attached to something secure, we use:

https://www.heightsafety.uk.com/product/protecta-c...

On commercial properties the roof will have something substantial to attach to.

Thinking on your use, it wouldn’t stop your operative falling out the window, so ignore all of the above.

I always ask suppliers, as they can recommend kit for different situations.

lewes

361 posts

192 months

Wednesday 26th January 2022
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Under the Work at Height Regulations you have the Hierarchy of control which should be considered and in this order:

- Avoid working at height completely. ...
- Prevent falls using a safe place to carry out work. ...
- Prevent falls using collective equipment. ...
- Use personal protective equipment (PPE): Fall restraint. ...
- Minimise the distance the worker could fall. ...
- Minimise the impact of a fall. ...
- Use PPE: Fall arrest.

This is then coupled with Equipment hierarchy of:

- Fixed Scaffolding
- MEWP
- Tower Scaffolding
- Ladders

You would find it very difficult to defend a litigation case if appropriate risk management wasn't adopted and the cheapest option only was the first priority. There would also be a liability aspect on the client if they were aware this task couldn't be undertaken safely for the contract value.

What does your Risk Assessment state as Control Measures and Risk Evaluation?

rufmeister

1,449 posts

138 months

Wednesday 26th January 2022
quotequote all
How about a rope grab system? We use these for places where there is no safe system of work.

https://www.heightsafety.uk.com/product/miller-aut...

You need to be attached to something secure, we use:

https://www.heightsafety.uk.com/product/protecta-c...

On commercial properties the roof will have something substantial to attach to.

Thinking on your use, it wouldn’t stop your operative falling out the window, so ignore all of the above.

I always ask suppliers, as they can recommend kit for different situations.

dudleybloke

20,553 posts

202 months

Wednesday 26th January 2022
quotequote all
Tie a long plank to their back.