Another sunken F35?

[Hard-Drive]

Oops! What's going on here? Two in a few months seems like a bit of an issue...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-6014848...

[normalbloke]

So different from the F35-B that went swimming, and the circumstances around it, you might as well be talking about a bus crash.

[Teddy Lop]

I'm surprised that with something the yanks are so cautious about not wanting the Chinese to swoop in and half-inch, there isn't a procedure to either somehow harpoon or simply blow it to smithereens before it sinks?

Homing beacon activates on ejection and send a beacon seeking big bang torpedo after it?

I mean once the pilots out and it's in the water it's toast anyway?

[Yertis]

Hard-Drive said:

Oops! What's going on here? Two in a few months seems like a bit of an issue...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-6014848...

"after what the Navy describes as a "mishap" during take-off". The US Navy refers to all such incidents as 'mishaps', it's the exact terminology they use.

[46and2]

Teddy Lop said:

I'm surprised that with something the yanks are so cautious about not wanting the Chinese to swoop in and half-inch, there isn't a procedure to either somehow harpoon or simply blow it to smithereens before it sinks?

Homing beacon activates on ejection and send a beacon seeking big bang torpedo after it?

I mean once the pilots out and it's in the water it's toast anyway?

I'm just musing but I would say that if it was recovered in good time than a fair number of parts could be recycled, airframe/engines/undercarriage maybe? I suppose it depends on how hard and deep it hits the seabed

[goldbazinga]

46and2 said:

Teddy Lop said:

I'm surprised that with something the yanks are so cautious about not wanting the Chinese to swoop in and half-inch, there isn't a procedure to either somehow harpoon or simply blow it to smithereens before it sinks?

Homing beacon activates on ejection and send a beacon seeking big bang torpedo after it?

I mean once the pilots out and it's in the water it's toast anyway?

I'm just musing but I would say that if it was recovered in good time than a fair number of parts could be recycled, airframe/engines/undercarriage maybe? I suppose it depends on how hard and deep it hits the seabed

I'd be very surprised if any part of this airframe could be re-used.

[46and2]

Looks like the race is on to salvage it so they must think that the networking and electronics will be salvageable in some shape or form. It sounds like a crash on landing as there are people injured, so yea the airframe may be a write off but still something to learn from.

[Teddy Lop]

46and2 said:

Looks like the race is on to salvage it so they must think that the networking and electronics will be salvageable in some shape or form. It sounds like a crash on landing as there are people injured, so yea the airframe may be a write off but still something to learn from.

I thought the race to salvage was more about the Chinese not getting their mitts on it?

I doubt an urgent deep water salvage op comes cheap..

[46and2]

Teddy Lop said:

I thought the race to salvage was more about the Chinese not getting their mitts on it?

I doubt an urgent deep water salvage op comes cheap..

Yea

[anonymous-user]

I’d imagine there is a sub nearby, I can’t see a carrier not deploying with one lurking around. QEC took HMS Astute with her on the recent deployment for example.

[florian]

Any information regarding the Chinese capability for deep sea salvage operations? The sea bed east of the Philippines is about 13.000 feet deep.

It looks like the Americans are prepared for exactly this scenario with the "Flyaway Deep Ocean Salvage System (FADOSS)". An unmanned vessel that can be transported in a C-17. I would be surprised if it's not deployed already and near the wreck as we speak.

But even then, never underestimate the Chinese ... this won't be the last F-35 that's lost in the Ocean.

[Mark V GTD]

46and2 said:

I'm just musing but I would say that if it was recovered in good time than a fair number of parts could be recycled, airframe/engines/undercarriage maybe? I suppose it depends on how hard and deep it hits the seabed

No nothing will be re-useable after an accident/seawater immersion.

[NMNeil]

Teddy Lop said:

I'm surprised that with something the yanks are so cautious about not wanting the Chinese to swoop in and half-inch, there isn't a procedure to either somehow harpoon or simply blow it to smithereens before it sinks?

Homing beacon activates on ejection and send a beacon seeking big bang torpedo after it?

I mean once the pilots out and it's in the water it's toast anyway?

If the US military was so cautious, why did they outsource the manufacture of critical components to a Chinese company in the UK?
https://news.sky.com/story/f-35-jets-chinese-owned...

[Shinysideup]

florian said:

Any information regarding the Chinese capability for deep sea salvage operations? The sea bed east of the Philippines is about 13.000 feet deep.

It looks like the Americans are prepared for exactly this scenario with the "Flyaway Deep Ocean Salvage System (FADOSS)". An unmanned vessel that can be transported in a C-17. I would be surprised if it's not deployed already and near the wreck as we speak.

But even then, never underestimate the Chinese ... this won't be the last F-35 that's lost in the Ocean.

On the commercial side, the Chinese have been investing heavily in ROV systems for a long time. One example is a company based in Newcastle called SMD (Soil Machine Dynamics) they bought out a few years ago. The company i work for operate the same SMD work class ROVs and they are rated for diving to 4000msw from the factory and can be modified to go deeper.

I doubt they would be so blatant to try and recover anything with commercial tech though while the US are watching as that would require a DSV/Barge (Similar to the Russian Yantar) on standby in dynamic positioning on the surface for a long period of time.

[florian]

Shinysideup said:

On the commercial side, the Chinese have been investing heavily in ROV systems for a long time. One example is a company based in Newcastle called SMD (Soil Machine Dynamics) they bought out a few years ago. The company i work for operate the same SMD work class ROVs and they are rated for diving to 4000msw from the factory and can be modified to go deeper.

I doubt they would be so blatant to try and recover anything with commercial tech though while the US are watching as that would require a DSV/Barge (Similar to the Russian Yantar) on standby in dynamic positioning on the surface for a long period of time.

That's an interesting find. The "work class" looks like the right tool for the job ...
Remember the time when the Americans sent the "Hughes Glomar Explorer" in 1974 to retrieve a sunken Russian submarine? I don't think the Chinese wouldn't pull a similar stunt. But I think this time they are too late.

[anonymous-user]

[IanH755]

That picture and and an accompanying video showing the F-35's flight path right up until the moment of impact on the rear of the CVN (which is not shown) have been confirmed as genuine by the US Navy.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/f-35-crash-video-sout...

Video in linked article for those who've not seen it yet. You don't see much but the F-35 doesn't seem to be "in the groove" for long enough as it's only 10 seconds between line-up and "crashing" which is a very short time (the Groove is a 15-18 second time slot between the aircraft getting stable after it's final break and passing the rear of the carrier's deck).

[Trevatanus]

Latest modifications being urgently rolled out across the fleet

[IanH755]

Leaked footage of the crash from 2 of the Carriers onboard cameras with audio included -

https://twitter.com/SavunmaTR/status/1490285152345...

Lots of "wave off" and "power" calls, the tailerons are going mental trying to keep the F35's roll level but just not enough power/thrust used/available.

[eharding]

IanH755 said:

Leaked footage of the crash from 2 of the Carriers onboard cameras with audio included -

https://twitter.com/SavunmaTR/status/1490285152345...

Lots of "wave off" and "power" calls, the tailerons are going mental trying to keep the F35's roll level but just not enough power/thrust used/available.

A long video but worth a watch - three F-14 veterans discuss the event (prior to this PLAT video being released - suspect this leak being another career-terminating event for someone)....



I hadn't appreciated the degree to which modern CATOBAR approaches are automated - time will tell if this was an automation failure or a manual flying mishap. Also mentions speculation that the LSO was one of those injured by the debris.