930 Turbo or 993

[Wilmslowboy]

Ok just thinking out aloud.

I have a well-sorted 70s 911 (rides and drives great) but I'm starting to think something slightly more usable would be better.

Car looks matter to me, and therefore the two options that spring to mind are 930 Turbo (or turbo bodied 3.2) for me the absolute definitive 911 shape, or a 993.

I know my way around 993's and I reckon for my car I could straight swap in a well-sorted 993 (man, coupe), and perhaps for £30k more into a 4S, but then I am into late 930 Turbo money (has to be 5 speed for me).

Is the late 80s 911 a big step up (on a 70's 911) in terms of comfort, motorway driving etc at the time theyy were touted as the top luxury Porsche

Edited by Wilmslowboy on Saturday 29th January 11:09

[smudger911]

Man maths and cost aside for a moment, I wouldn't say the 70's -> early 80's 911's are that different in terms of drive / noise etc. Just to throw a spanner in your thinking have you considered a 964? IME the 964 is best of old and modern air cooled and can easily be used as a daily (just like the 993 if you wanted too) e.g clutches not to heavy, air con that 'works' yet still give the 911 experience.

Edited by smudger911 on Saturday 29th January 12:07

[Desert Dragon]

Having owned both I'd go for a 993 Carrera 2. Looks wise 930 hands down but a really ordinary drive for me. Maybe subject to set up but 930 love lift off over steer and straight over steer for no reason whatsoever in the wet occasionally hence bit less useable for me. Steering quite tiresome I expect too nowadays not being assisted. Maybe I'd go for a 993 turbo if I want wide body. I do love them too.

[Louis Balfour]

Wilmslowboy said:

Ok just thinking out aloud.

I have a well-sorted 70s 911 (rides and drives great) but I'm starting to think something slightly more usable would be better.

Car looks matter to me, and therefore the two options that spring to mind are 930 Turbo (or turbo bodied 3.2) for me the absolute definitive 911 shape, or a 993.

I know my way around 993's and I reckon for my car I could straight swap in a well-sorted 993 (man, coupe), and perhaps for £30k more into a 4S, but then I am into late 930 Turbo money (has to be 5 speed for me).

Is the late 80s 911 a big step up (on a 70's 911) in terms of comfort, motorway driving etc at the time theyy were touted as the top luxury Porsche

Edited by Wilmslowboy on Saturday 29th January 11:09

The 930 IS the turbo. So a "930 turbo" would be a turbo turbo and you really wouldn't want that.

Pedantry aside, they look better than they drive. I had one for a couple of years and really didn't like it. I had a turbo look 3.0SC at the same time and it was WAY nicer to drive.

I'd look at normally aspirated cars and a good 3.0SC would be on my list.

Finding a decent one at a fair price is a challenge, though.

[Cheib]

Desert Dragon said:

Having owned both I'd go for a 993 Carrera 2. Looks wise 930 hands down but a really ordinary drive for me. Maybe subject to set up but 930 love lift off over steer and straight over steer for no reason whatsoever in the wet occasionally less useable for me. Steering quite tiresome I expect too nowadays not being assisted. Maybe I'd go for a 993 turbo if I want wide body. I do love them too.

Mate of mine has a very early 930 Turbo....we took our cars to Milbrook together (mine is an early 70's 911). Both had a good go on the handling pad...both cars are running modern but still the correct N rated Porsche tyres. Think mine are N6 !

Maybe the cars have been well set up (mine had been to CG just before) and maybe it is the modern rubber compounds but both behaved impeccably when trying to provoke lift off oversteer....not a sign of it. The instructor we were with has been at the PEC for ten years so knows his way around a 911's handling traits.

[Wilmslowboy]

Thank you for the replies

Great example today, wife and I popped from Manchester to B'Ham and back, to see friends/ family. I would never dream of going in the 70's 911 (except if I was on my own and then only on the best of summer days), yet we would probably be happy in a well sorted 993.

For some reason, I'm not a fan of the 964 looks.

Perhaps I want my cake and to eat it, as I love the 70's 911 on country roads, at the weekend driving on my own, (more than I would a 993), yet it's not suited to daily jaunt.

[Wozy68]

I owned (briefly) a 1988 SSE. Personally I wasn’t overly impressed. Yes it looked the business but dare I say it, it felt a slow and heavy car. I owned mine though when they were circa £18-20K. Big money now but I’m still glad I sold it.

I’ve also owned a 1977 2.7, a 964 C2 and a 968CS

I’ve now owned my 993 C2 for 10 years….. by far the longest period of ownership of any of them.

IMHO it’s the finest aircooled 911 of them all. I’ve commuted at times in her, travelled all over Europe in her and for unfamiliar B roads it’s by far the best of the 911s……

Running on suspension that’s tip top (a lot now through age arnt) it’s an absolutely lovely drive and miles ahead of what came before it IMO (Still not as good as the CS was though which was sublime but underpowered).

An utter pleasure to drive when your in the mood for a fast blast.

If you do head for a 993 ….. Just don’t dismiss a high miler as I’ve quite often found they are kept up together better than the garage queens . These cars love being used as intended.

Edited by Wozy68 on Sunday 30th January 19:38

[Wilmslowboy]

The feedback I've collected is an 80's 911 is very similar to a late 70's 911 (ride, comfort etc)

A 993 is a real option, although they are 1/4 of a tonne heavier than a mid-70s 911 - and lightweight is one of the joys of my current 911.

I had a 993 4S 10 years ago, if I got another it would need to go on a weight reduction programme...which all adds to the cost.


Sound slike my ideal motor is a Singer

[Wozy68]

Wilmslowboy said:

The feedback I've collected is an 80's 911 is very similar to a late 70's 911 (ride, comfort etc)

A 993 is a real option, although they are 1/4 of a tonne heavier than a mid-70s 911 - and lightweight is one of the joys of my current 911.

I had a 993 4S 10 years ago, if I got another it would need to go on a weight reduction programme...which all adds to the cost.


Sound slike my ideal motor is a Singer

Yes I’d agree the difference between the Seventies and Eighties is minimal (G50 aside) and yes I realise the 911 got heavier but it was the old school 911 rear suspension (pre 993) that really had got to the point where it couldn’t really cope IMO as the cars got naturally heavier from model to model.

Lastly power to weight. A standard C2 993 was knocking out 200bhp per tonne in the early Nineties and could hit 0-100 In around 12.5 seconds, (That’s biting on the heels of an Eighties 3.3 Turbo).

The SSE was about 4-5 seconds slower to 100 if memory serves.

Singer sounds a plan though

Edited by Wozy68 on Sunday 30th January 23:22

[marine boy]

Good choice OP,

I've got a 5-speed 930 (very few around so buy carefully) and a 964 C2

Love the driving experience both give, driven both across Europe on long drives on motorways, mountain back roads, in the rain and sunshine.

Can understand why many don't get on with the 930 as it's a bit old school, no PAS, no ABS, no traction control and massive turbo lag. All qualities that make it more difficult car to drive which is where the appeal is for me. Don't be surprised if you don't gel with it on a test drive

The 964 is the complete opposite and I'd imagine a similar drive to a 993. NA engine is far more responsiveness and the 964 is better handling, a more relaxing and flowing driving experience on twisty roads

If you want more of an event each time you drive buy the 930 but if you want something more everyday, useable buy the 993

[Wilmslowboy]

smudger911 said:

Man maths and cost aside for a moment, I wouldn't say the 70's -> early 80's 911's are that different in terms of drive / noise etc. Just to throw a spanner in your thinking have you considered a 964? IME the 964 is best of old and modern air cooled and can easily be used as a daily (just like the 993 if you wanted too) e.g clutches not to heavy, air con that 'works' yet still give the 911 experience.

I might need to re-consider the 964 - this looks great.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1993-porsche-9...

[seawise]

I’ve owned and driven many air cooled 911’s over the past 25 years and the 964 remains the sweet spot for me.

930 drives in a way that feels very different to a narrow body a/c 911 of similar vintage. Not in a good way in my humble opinion. And i am speaking from the privileged position of having owned a very nicely set up ‘89 5sp 930, wonderfully iconic looking car but to drive they are quite marmite.

I adore my 964 Carrera RS, and you can make a standard C2 drive just as well, as it’s all about the fundamentals (size, weight, involvement, etc).

993’s can be lovely as well, but again some drive better that others. For instance my early pre-variocam 993 C2 felt faster and more exciting on a charge than my late 993 RS. So try and drive a few before deciding.

Enjoy your search, get it right and you will find something close to motoring nirvana i think.

[Grantstown]

Wilmslowboy said:

The feedback I've collected is an 80's 911 is very similar to a late 70's 911 (ride, comfort etc)

A 993 is a real option, although they are 1/4 of a tonne heavier than a mid-70s 911 - and lightweight is one of the joys of my current 911.

I had a 993 4S 10 years ago, if I got another it would need to go on a weight reduction programme...which all adds to the cost.


Sound slike my ideal motor is a Singer

Nah, Singer is just too much. Check out Theon design. I’d love one of those.

[marine boy]

seawise said:

I adore my 964 Carrera RS, and you can make a standard C2 drive just as well, as it’s all about the fundamentals (size, weight, involvement, etc).

Enjoy your search, get it right and you will find something close to motoring nirvana i think.

Should have mentioned my 964 C2 is stripped to the bare bones and 100kgs lighter than a 964 RS, it's great fun!

No trick bits fitted (yet) or very few lightweight bits added (only exception being lighter wheels and de-cat pipe).

964 shape wasn't my favourite 911 shape but I think it's aged extremely well, much more so than the 993 as it's kept more of the traditional 911 shape

OP, worth considering a 964, or at least test drive one as you may miss out on your nirvana

[Louis Balfour]

seawise said:

I’ve owned and driven many air cooled 911’s over the past 25 years and the 964 remains the sweet spot for me.

930 drives in a way that feels very different to a narrow body a/c 911 of similar vintage. Not in a good way in my humble opinion. And i am speaking from the privileged position of having owned a very nicely set up ‘89 5sp 930, wonderfully iconic looking car but to drive they are quite marmite.

I adore my 964 Carrera RS, and you can make a standard C2 drive just as well, as it’s all about the fundamentals (size, weight, involvement, etc).

993’s can be lovely as well, but again some drive better that others. For instance my early pre-variocam 993 C2 felt faster and more exciting on a charge than my late 993 RS. So try and drive a few before deciding.

Enjoy your search, get it right and you will find something close to motoring nirvana i think.

In my deepest memory, do I recall your 930 was the Jersey import?

[seawise]

Louis Balfour said:

In my deepest memory, do I recall your 930 was the Jersey import?

Not mine nope. Bought and sold through Paragon (was actually the proprietor fathers car many moons ago).

[GTRene]

Love some 911, specially the wide body Turbo look cars.
those Turbo cars you see them much lately in ads, from 70-tish and 80-tish and a few 90-tish 964

In the early days (younger me) liked the Turbo spoiler... nowadays not... If I ever would buy a Turbo, I would change it, shorter bumpers to make it a bit more compact like backdating, and say such Singer rear spoiler, then the classic 911 bucket seats and more ala RS and them tuning the engine, maybe faster spooling turbo's and around 400+ or... ditch the Turbo's and supercharge that engine.

So I would not use a rare Turbo version for such :-) but most you can build back when needed.

I had a 930 engined ;-) 911 3.0 carrera coupe 1976 which looked great, but was used to other fast stuf with engine in front and not getting light at the front at high speeds.

Later had a lovely 964 C2 in RS look outside but, with 3.8 cup engine, which was nice and a bit better for going faster, but still could not get used when the tank gets emptier, the front get lighter at higher speeds, not that it get dangerous then, but did not gave more confidence.

but hey, Matra's and alpine v6 turbo acting the same when the fuel tank gets more empty.

a 933 C2 (S) looks nice, but almost to modern? but I like the back date looks ala Singer does with those.

[Louis Balfour]

seawise said:

Louis Balfour said:

In my deepest memory, do I recall your 930 was the Jersey import?

Not mine nope. Bought and sold through Paragon (was actually the proprietor fathers car many moons ago).

Ah OK.

When I was looking for one, a dealer from London brought up a tatty one that had just come from Jersey. The dashboard was warped and the seatbelts were all fluffy, yet it was showing remarkably few miles.

It had clearly been used for trips to outer space, but the dealer claimed that all the wear and tear was due to... Jersey, where people get in and out of their cars a lot.

[smudger911]

Wilmslowboy said:

smudger911 said:

Man maths and cost aside for a moment, I wouldn't say the 70's -> early 80's 911's are that different in terms of drive / noise etc. Just to throw a spanner in your thinking have you considered a 964? IME the 964 is best of old and modern air cooled and can easily be used as a daily (just like the 993 if you wanted too) e.g clutches not to heavy, air con that 'works' yet still give the 911 experience.

I might need to re-consider the 964 - this looks great.

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1993-porsche-9...

Looks fairly tidy for a 100k mile 964 - a few cosmetic items - but mostly general wear on seats, body work.
From the history and limited description it's been looked after by some well known independents.
Collecting Cars have been good enough to leave the owner details on some of the invoices....

[GTRene]

In the Netherlands there is a nice one for sale, a bit restomod, based on a 964 3.3 Turbo Coupé, it now has the 3.6 Turbo.







inside they went for this







more>

https://www.autowereld.nl/porsche/911/964-3-6-turb...