gearbox buggered

[ssc1]

afterr having a nice day at the bbwf apart from the weather letting go , my gearbox also decided to let go and is now whining heavily in all the gears and a smell of burning gearbox oil, and having had a few rover SD1's with buggered boxes i know when the input shaft has let go ,,,,,so is the box a standard SD1 vittesse unit and where can i get one for a reasonable price , it looks an ok job to do , but what a bloody day...

[NHyde]

Bad news ! The box is an LT77 , but you need to make sure it is from an SD1 Vitesse as all the ratios are are hardened . If you fit a standard LT77 unit it will behave like chocolate .

[ssc1]

thanks neil , aircraft engineer ( same here), i thought it was , and i notice that rimmers are selling a heavy duty lt77 type box so i wonder if it is ok for the 400se, anyway i also notice that the bible states that the engine and box have to come out as a unit unless i cut a tube off the chassis (which seems a bit extreme) and then weld it back later or move the engine forward 6-7 inches which is ok but i dont have an engine hoist , so has anyone done the job without removing the engine or have they used another method , as i can see a bill of over a grand here if i get it done by a dealer/specialist ....

[GreenV8S]

It may be cheaper to get yours rebuilt? Bernie at Competition Transmissions in Luton rebuilds them with an uprated input bearing which makes them much more durable for high power applications. They seem to be pretty solid up to about 300 lb-ft which should be more than adequate for you I would have thought.

[350matt]

I've had the box out a few times on mine and it is possible to remove it from below the car, with the engine having to been moved fowards in the engine bay but not removed. you still have to remove the driverside exhaust manifold but you'll save a couple of hours work getting it out this way, although you may have to unbolt the bellhousing while its underneath the car unless you can raise the car really high up.

4 post lift anyone?

and I'd reccommend Bernie as well and when it goes back in use the semi-synthetic 75-90W oil as this helps a lot.

Matt

[adam quantrill]

I've done this and as I recall I got away without a hoist by jacking it up from underneath. However I wouldn't really recommend this as you could dent or crack the sump (although that is easier to replace anyway).

You can hire a hoist for about 15 quid for a weekend, make sure you get some chains with it.

I am about to do my 350i so I'll let you know any other hints on Tuesday....

On the subject of the Vitesse box, I thought the difference was better bearings and a stronger 5th gear, so I'd like to know more about any other differences.

[chassis 33]

The SD1 Vitesse box is the 'D' varient of the LT77 box which i believe has a stronger bearing configuration.

The strongest option is aparently the 'E' varient as fitted to Sherpa vans, as this has a larger layshaft too.

Regards
Iain

sorry edited to add...
Try emailing Hugh Chambers via eBay his id is room05. He has virtually every SD1 part you can think of and doesnt charge silly money, and i know he's currently got a Vitesse TP that he's stripping

>> Edited by chassis 33 on Sunday 31st July 20:39

[ssc1]

excellent thanks people i might try and get it rebuilt then as in no rush , just wish i had checked the oil level the nite before, i had a niggling feeling about it and thought should i check the level but thought no as it did not leak , but there we are now with a buggered box, still we live and learn....

[ssc1]

well after pricing up the bits that may need replacing ( worse case scenario) , it may be cheaper to get a recon unit , the gearbox number has a D at the end of it does this mean its a D variant and does anybody know where i can get a recon box that wont break the bank and would the heavy duty vittesse box from rimmers be suitable ...as my box only had about one cup of oil in it when i drained it and was full of bits so im thinking that everything will need replacing , i got the prices from rimmers , dont want to get it stripped down only to find that the bits cost more than a recon unit....need some overtime now

[chassis 33]

Yes, the gearbox varient is the suffix at the end of the gearbox number.

Incidentally www.rpiv8.com/transmission-3.htm may be of interest?

Regards
Iain

[JR]

ssc1 said:

dont want to get it stripped down only to find that the bits cost more than a recon unit....need some overtime now

You might see if this guy would give you a few tips having rebuilt his 'box: www.pistonheads.com/members/showProfile.asp?memberId=12835

[ssc1]

i have also noticed that theLT77 box is fitted to landrovers ,,are these the same box or are the ratios different as i can get the D variant or better.

[andymadmak]

JR said:

ssc1 said: dont want to get it stripped down only to find that the bits cost more than a recon unit....need some overtime now You might see if this guy would give you a few tips having rebuilt his 'box: www.pistonheads.com/members/showProfile.asp?memberId=12835

Fame at Last!
I got my gearbox rebuilt by Ken Tomlinson at N+T transmissions . They are in a little village called Over Whitacre, near Coleshill, Birmingham way.
Ken designed the thing in the first place so he should know what he's doing.
If memory serves, my total rebuild cost me the princely sum of £245 a couple of years ago.
It now runs on Castrol Synthetic SMS oil and it's the smoothest, quietest, best shifting LT77 I've ever driven now.!!

If you cannot find Ken, try e mailing BoostedLS1 through his profile, I think he is sure to have Kens number (I've lost it )

andy

[adam quantrill]

I've just picked up a hoist as the jacking-up method isn't really on. It's a one-tonne one, a bit of overkill maybe but it'll do the job.

I'm making a list of things you have to disconnect etc and will post it when I'm done - hopefully Thursday...

[ssc1]

where did you get a hoist from and is it big enough , i was hoping to lift the engine up from the front of the car but a few of the hoists dont stretch enough most only have a reach of 1163mm is this enough, i have unbolted everything gearbox end and removed some engine bits like the offside manifold and the top and bottom hoses. i only get to do a bit every weekend as im on an intensive course covering boeing 747-400, so a bit tied up weekdays , still no rush just dont like having the car in the garage all the time high up on axlestands ,,,ian

[350zwelgje]

ssc1 said:

where did you get a hoist from and is it big enough , i was hoping to lift the engine up from the front of the car but a few of the hoists dont stretch enough most only have a reach of 1163mm is this enough, i have unbolted everything gearbox end and removed some engine bits like the offside manifold and the top and bottom hoses. i only get to do a bit every weekend as im on an intensive course covering boeing 747-400, so a bit tied up weekdays , still no rush just dont like having the car in the garage all the time high up on axlestands ,,,ian

I am also interested in the length (combined with the required weight capacity) the hoist needs to have. Saw a bargin but chickend out as it was unclear that it would do the job from the large wedge nose side(350i '87, not as long as series 1, but still).
Please enlighten us, as I am planning since one year to get the gearbox (noisy since bought in 2001, and the release bearing is now joining in) out to get it rebuild before it breaks (had this experience in my SD1 and do not want that to happen again, as the box was beyond repair).

Rob

[gsx600]

350zwelgje said:

ssc1 said: where did you get a hoist from and is it big enough , i was hoping to lift the engine up from the front of the car but a few of the hoists dont stretch enough most only have a reach of 1163mm is this enough, i have unbolted everything gearbox end and removed some engine bits like the offside manifold and the top and bottom hoses. i only get to do a bit every weekend as im on an intensive course covering boeing 747-400, so a bit tied up weekdays , still no rush just dont like having the car in the garage all the time high up on axlestands ,,,ian I am also interested in the length (combined with the required weight capacity) the hoist needs to have. Saw a bargin but chickend out as it was unclear that it would do the job from the large wedge nose side(350i '87, not as long as series 1, but still). Please enlighten us, as I am planning since one year to get the gearbox (noisy since bought in 2001, and the release bearing is now joining in) out to get it rebuild before it breaks (had this experience in my SD1 and do not want that to happen again, as the box was beyond repair). Rob

Mine goes from 1000kg to 250kg depending on how far out the arm is. Had a length of 120 cm on the 250 kg and managed to put the engine with gearbox on without any issues. Crane was at front of engine and you just had to be a little carefull on the angle as the gearbox end drops down.

When I took just the engine out to start of with I used the crane at the side of the car which also worked quite well.

Goes without saying that injection system and manifolds were off saving some weight.

[o2ace]

Not sure whether this is any use to you, but I have a "A" frame with a block and tackle on it in my garage. You are most welcome to borrow it, as I use it very rarely. I last lifted a V12 and box from a XJS, so it should done the job. If interested email me and we can come to some arrangement. I only live in Rugby, not too far from you.

[mr-scott]

The ratios of the gearboxes are wider on Landrovers, and I seem to remember there is a difference in the input shaft especially where it goes into the spigot bush. Just to clarify the Vitesse gearboxes had shot peened gears (this was the hardening mentioned) and to the best of my knowledge a,b,c suffix gearboxes have smaller bearings than the D suffix gearboxes, as well as a smaller diameter output shaft. The D suffix V8 gearbox is generally thought to be the one to go for don't be tempted by a late diesel box as these have wide ratios.

ssc1 said:

i have also noticed that theLT77 box is fitted to landrovers ,,are these the same box or are the ratios different as i can get the D variant or better.

[briantvr350]

Hi guys...

This crane...
www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=020110145&r=2050&g=107
from Machine Mart was long and strong enough to lift the engine, gearbox + manifolds out of my wedge..

Only issue is the wheels on the end of the front legs fouling the lower wishbones..

If you have limited headroom you also need to ensure the hook is as close to the plenum top as possible.

To extract the engine in this manner you also need a lot of room in front of the car...

While you have the box out, suggest you change the rubber bushes in the remote.. it's a lot easier with the box on the floor. It seems to be the season for them going.

Regards,

Brian (and a Red 350i)