Retiring & how best to play things…
Discussion
Planning on retiring 12 months from now .
The wife has health issues which the firm I work for are well aware of.
My contract dictates that I give/serve a Years notice which is standard practice in this industry.
Between now and my planned end date next year I’ll have 3 bonuses and resigning now I think will impact what I’m likely to get paid .
If I actually resign they may boot me straight away and make me sit at home on just a basic salary for 12 months.
If on the other hand I wait till this time next year and resign they might make me sit at my desk for 12 months which I really don’t want to do.
Anyone think of a decent work around ?
The wife has health issues which the firm I work for are well aware of.
My contract dictates that I give/serve a Years notice which is standard practice in this industry.
Between now and my planned end date next year I’ll have 3 bonuses and resigning now I think will impact what I’m likely to get paid .
If I actually resign they may boot me straight away and make me sit at home on just a basic salary for 12 months.
If on the other hand I wait till this time next year and resign they might make me sit at my desk for 12 months which I really don’t want to do.
Anyone think of a decent work around ?
With a 1 year's notice period aren't you ALWAYS going to be in a situation where there are X number of bonus dates falling between the date you hand in your notice and the date you leave?
If it's a standard notice period then your HR department will have a Policy for this as it will have come up before.
If it's a standard notice period then your HR department will have a Policy for this as it will have come up before.
I would lie. Resign in 12 months time, telling them your wife's health situation has taken a turn for the worse and you need to leave straight away. If they kick off, tell them that if they insist you stay, with the worry of your wife health on your mind all day, you're sure that your performance will be effected and it won't be good for you or them.
Basically, "I'm not working my notice, and if you make me, you'll wish you hadn't." But politely.
Basically, "I'm not working my notice, and if you make me, you'll wish you hadn't." But politely.
Countdown said:
With a 1 year's notice period aren't you ALWAYS going to be in a situation where there are X number of bonus dates falling between the date you hand in your notice and the date you leave?
If it's a standard notice period then your HR department will have a Policy for this as it will have come up before.
Yes that’s correct I’ll always be in a bonus period even when I resign so if I’m made to work I’d be entitled to receiving a bonus although if they put me on gardening leave I’m only entitled to my basic salary. If it's a standard notice period then your HR department will have a Policy for this as it will have come up before.
What id like to do is leave end of feb 2023 and never return & also sell all the shares I have although these usually have a 4 year vesting period.
As I said, resigning now might not play out well for me for the reasons stated above
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I would lie. Resign in 12 months time, telling them your wife's health situation has taken a turn for the worse and you need to leave straight away. If they kick off, tell them that if they insist you stay, with the worry of your wife health on your mind all day, you're sure that your performance will be effected and it won't be good for you or them.
Basically, "I'm not working my notice, and if you make me, you'll wish you hadn't." But politely.
Tks . This has also crossed my mind as her health issues are well documented . Basically, "I'm not working my notice, and if you make me, you'll wish you hadn't." But politely.
Maybe they will let me go and pay me gardening leave for 12 months with a further 6 month non compete restriction.
Pondering still ….
They could also make me sit there for 3 months post bonus and work then let me go and I won’t be entitled to a bonus as they won’t pro rata the bonus
Edited by GT3Manthey on Friday 11th February 13:19
I had thought of laying the seed now ( given my wife’s situation) and then in 6 months from now telling them I’ll do another 6 months and that’s it .
Edited by GT3Manthey on Friday 11th February 13:22
Sorry for the constant edits but I’m mulling over the various scenarios.
Part of me actually thinks that I try and work with them they’ll work with me given my wife’s situation although maybe I’m being naive
Edited by GT3Manthey on Friday 11th February 13:43
I dont know your organisation OP but, generally, you'll leave one of three ways. 1.) Redundancy 2.) Retirement as a good leaver or 3.) Retirement as a bad leaver. Obviously these are in decending order of preference.
Redundancy is the first prize. You'll get the most money and the smallest tax bill but the redundancy must be 100% real. Not even a hint of impropriety must be allowed. You'll need to devise a structure that eliminates your own role, usually through consolidation, and then follow a well documented process.
Retirement as a good leaver will likely vest your stock awards and pay your final years bonuses (though you will pay tax on any employee share scheme contributions for the last five years). It isn't a common outcome but in your favour is the health issue and also any willingness to work part time until your replacement is fully up to speed? This will be a negotiation so your level of relationship with the CEO and head of HR will be the determining factor.
Retirement as a bad leaver leaves you exposed to the problems outlined in your op.
From what I have seen, mostly in very large organisations, this is better started with an informal chat about the hypothetical options, outside of the workplace, with a line manager, ceo, HR head etc who you can trust 100% to keep it between you and advise what outcomes could be possible. A friendly HR professional will be able to tell you what the company has done typically for people in your position and what the current appetite for generosity is.
It is risky to start the process informally but, in most cases, if you just quit you'll get the worst option.
Redundancy is the first prize. You'll get the most money and the smallest tax bill but the redundancy must be 100% real. Not even a hint of impropriety must be allowed. You'll need to devise a structure that eliminates your own role, usually through consolidation, and then follow a well documented process.
Retirement as a good leaver will likely vest your stock awards and pay your final years bonuses (though you will pay tax on any employee share scheme contributions for the last five years). It isn't a common outcome but in your favour is the health issue and also any willingness to work part time until your replacement is fully up to speed? This will be a negotiation so your level of relationship with the CEO and head of HR will be the determining factor.
Retirement as a bad leaver leaves you exposed to the problems outlined in your op.
From what I have seen, mostly in very large organisations, this is better started with an informal chat about the hypothetical options, outside of the workplace, with a line manager, ceo, HR head etc who you can trust 100% to keep it between you and advise what outcomes could be possible. A friendly HR professional will be able to tell you what the company has done typically for people in your position and what the current appetite for generosity is.
It is risky to start the process informally but, in most cases, if you just quit you'll get the worst option.
Hang On said:
I dont know your organisation OP but, generally, you'll leave one of three ways. 1.) Redundancy 2.) Retirement as a good leaver or 3.) Retirement as a bad leaver. Obviously these are in decending order of preference.
Redundancy is the first prize. You'll get the most money and the smallest tax bill but the redundancy must be 100% real. Not even a hint of impropriety must be allowed. You'll need to devise a structure that eliminates your own role, usually through consolidation, and then follow a well documented process.
Retirement as a good leaver will likely vest your stock awards and pay your final years bonuses (though you will pay tax on any employee share scheme contributions for the last five years). It isn't a common outcome but in your favour is the health issue and also any willingness to work part time until your replacement is fully up to speed? This will be a negotiation so your level of relationship with the CEO and head of HR will be the determining factor.
Retirement as a bad leaver leaves you exposed to the problems outlined in your op.
From what I have seen, mostly in very large organisations, this is better started with an informal chat about the hypothetical options, outside of the workplace, with a line manager, ceo, HR head etc who you can trust 100% to keep it between you and advise what outcomes could be possible. A friendly HR professional will be able to tell you what the company has done typically for people in your position and what the current appetite for generosity is.
It is risky to start the process informally but, in most cases, if you just quit you'll get the worst option.
Good post tks. Redundancy is the first prize. You'll get the most money and the smallest tax bill but the redundancy must be 100% real. Not even a hint of impropriety must be allowed. You'll need to devise a structure that eliminates your own role, usually through consolidation, and then follow a well documented process.
Retirement as a good leaver will likely vest your stock awards and pay your final years bonuses (though you will pay tax on any employee share scheme contributions for the last five years). It isn't a common outcome but in your favour is the health issue and also any willingness to work part time until your replacement is fully up to speed? This will be a negotiation so your level of relationship with the CEO and head of HR will be the determining factor.
Retirement as a bad leaver leaves you exposed to the problems outlined in your op.
From what I have seen, mostly in very large organisations, this is better started with an informal chat about the hypothetical options, outside of the workplace, with a line manager, ceo, HR head etc who you can trust 100% to keep it between you and advise what outcomes could be possible. A friendly HR professional will be able to tell you what the company has done typically for people in your position and what the current appetite for generosity is.
It is risky to start the process informally but, in most cases, if you just quit you'll get the worst option.
Redundancy won’t be an option unless they are suddenly generous ( never previously known to be) and I agree to post non compete maybe although there is an older member of staff that has signalled his intentions of also leaving in the next 2 years so they won’t want me to go.
I’d prefer to be a good leaver and ask if they will release all my shares on departure . The tax will be paid on the shares so I’ll receive them net of tax which will compensate me for the next half yearly bonus.
I’m just wondering if , given my wife’s situation, there is any form of ‘help’ in terms of insurance that can kick in so I become her carer as such & stay tied to the firm but take off an indefinite period of time.
I also agree that early negotiations have to be carried out informally
andburg said:
Have you considered asking your employer to make reasonable adjusts to help you with the care? It could at least start the conversation without you bring up retirement or leaving the business as a whole.
I won’t be able to work part time that won’t be an option plus I actually REALLY want to leave and retire. Had chats with my pension guy this week and the plan to retire has been in place for some time . All on track .
Also given my wife’s situation things are likely to not improve so I’d much rather quit altogether and be with her
trevalvole said:
How important are the bonuses to you? If they aren't the most important thing, then just give your notice now. And anyway, if they won't play fair with the bonuses and still expect you to work, then they'll have to deal with an annoyed employee.
The bonuses make up the bulk of my earnings so from a financial standpoint they are key . Knowing the situation at home I’d like to think they will take onboard that I’m trying to work with them but in this game it’s usually every man for himself. I guess if I lay the seed now then in 6 months really get negotiating it could all work out .
Obviously I want to leave with the best possible solution for me
I have been in a similar position with my wifes health and to be honest you have to think, which takes priority, your bonus or your wife, in my case it was f
k the bonus im off, im really pleased i did as things went very pear-shaped with my wife only a few months later.
Money is not everything.
k the bonus im off, im really pleased i did as things went very pear-shaped with my wife only a few months later. Money is not everything.
phumy said:
I have been in a similar position with my wifes health and to be honest you have to think, which takes priority, your bonus or your wife, in my case it was fk the bonus im off, im really pleased i did as things went very pear-shaped with my wife only a few months later.
Money is not everything.
I do obviously totally agree . k the bonus im off, im really pleased i did as things went very pear-shaped with my wife only a few months later. Money is not everything.
I am happy to work for another year and she’s ok with it too .
Just looking for the best possible outcome.
I do think honesty is the best way to approach it.
I think if I work with them they’ll work with me.
In this game it never goes down well to wait for the bonus to clear then Chuck in your notice
Sorry to hear about your wife’s health issues
Edited by GT3Manthey on Friday 11th February 17:31
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I would lie. Resign in 12 months time, telling them your wife's health situation has taken a turn for the worse and you need to leave straight away. If they kick off, tell them that if they insist you stay, with the worry of your wife health on your mind all day, you're sure that your performance will be effected and it won't be good for you or them.
Basically, "I'm not working my notice, and if you make me, you'll wish you hadn't." But politely.
This would be the best outcome I reckon, aslong as they can't claim the bonuses back off you etc. Basically, "I'm not working my notice, and if you make me, you'll wish you hadn't." But politely.
Leicester Loyal said:
This would be the best outcome I reckon, aslong as they can't claim the bonuses back off you etc.
They can’t claim bonuses back but there will be the slow release of shares . That’s not a deal breaker in itself but the key is wanting to actually leave the daily grind on a set date. I’ve never been in this position so excuse me if I’m naïve but aren’t bonuses paid for work and targets already completed?
How can this affect your bonuses in your notice year, unless they specifically set the bonuses at an unattainable level or they are purely discretionary.
Is your fear that they are just going to say ‘Stuff you, you’re leaving so you get no bonuses this year?’
I think the way your bonus structure is set up is key and only you are able to answer that.
Firstly sorry to hear about your wife’s health issues.
Assuming the bonus’s have already been “ earnt but not paid out “ then going for retirement in a years time and sticking to your contract should mean leaving as a good leaver and then receiving the said bonus’s or LTIP’s or share options proceeds when normally due should happen.
If on the other hand they are not contractual per se then whilst hopefully still good leaver it may not be as simple.
Either way should be detailed somewhere especially on share option paperwork.
If there is a friendly person in HR then worth an informal chat before submitting any formal letter / intent to your boss and be careful on the wording when it comes to it.
Good luck.
Assuming the bonus’s have already been “ earnt but not paid out “ then going for retirement in a years time and sticking to your contract should mean leaving as a good leaver and then receiving the said bonus’s or LTIP’s or share options proceeds when normally due should happen.
If on the other hand they are not contractual per se then whilst hopefully still good leaver it may not be as simple.
Either way should be detailed somewhere especially on share option paperwork.
If there is a friendly person in HR then worth an informal chat before submitting any formal letter / intent to your boss and be careful on the wording when it comes to it.
Good luck.
Drawweight said:
I’ve never been in this position so excuse me if I’m naïve but aren’t bonuses paid for work and targets already completed?
How can this affect your bonuses in your notice year, unless they specifically set the bonuses at an unattainable level or they are purely discretionary.
Is your fear that they are just going to say ‘Stuff you, you’re leaving so you get no bonuses this year?’
I think the way your bonus structure is set up is key and only you are able to answer that.
In simple terms the bonus paid is entirely discretionary.How can this affect your bonuses in your notice year, unless they specifically set the bonuses at an unattainable level or they are purely discretionary.
Is your fear that they are just going to say ‘Stuff you, you’re leaving so you get no bonuses this year?’
I think the way your bonus structure is set up is key and only you are able to answer that.
So you can work your butt off but then the boss comes up with various reasons you're getting X as opposed to Y.
You can contest it but it never gets you anywhere so if someone is known to be leaving then there is always the chance the bonus gets 'trimmed'
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