Why do spies do it?

[glazbagun]

I'm sure there are ideological or disillusioned types out there but this case strikes me as sheer stupid greed from people who should know better. Or is it more a case of skilled and trusted people being paid poorly and feeling taken for granted. $100K doesn't seem worth the risk when your wife has a PhD and you've got a decent job, but maybe they were also up to their eyes in debt?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-6044222...

[CooperS]

glazbagun said:

I'm sure there are ideological or disillusioned types out there but this case strikes me as sheer stupid greed from people who should know better. Or is it more a case of skilled and trusted people being paid poorly and feeling taken for granted. $100K doesn't seem worth the risk when your wife has a PhD and you've got a decent job, but maybe they were also up to their eyes in debt?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-6044222...

Who knows (although financial difficulties might be the probable answer) but I’m surprised he only got 12 years for it.

[Fundoreen]

glazbagun said:

I'm sure there are ideological or disillusioned types out there but this case strikes me as sheer stupid greed from people who should know better. Or is it more a case of skilled and trusted people being paid poorly and feeling taken for granted. $100K doesn't seem worth the risk when your wife has a PhD and you've got a decent job, but maybe they were also up to their eyes in debt?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-6044222...

Most western academics are not far off this with all the eager collaborations with china. Look where that has got us.

[ClaphamGT3]

Greed, excitement, a sense of getting one over on the establishment, debt, a belief that you're so clever you'll never be caught probably all play a part

[glazbagun]

Here's another one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stewart_Nozette

Feted NASA scientist, great prestige and surely not a poor guy, decides to sell state secrets to "Mossad". Is this just some kind of risk taking behavior or a desire for ever more wealth like might lead a CEO to chase unwise mergers?

[Killer2005]

BBC News - The US suburban couple accused of a bungled treason plot
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-5892097...

Money apparently. From whats been written about the husband, he seemed to enjoy the role of being a (not very good) spy.

[LimaDelta]

All of the above and more. It is rarely ideological. Don't forget to add 'victim of blackmail' to your list. Intelligence agencies are very good at sniffing out the 'right' sort of people. Someone in debt, overlooked for promotion, having an affair, etc. can be relatively easy to convince, especially if you start with low-value intel first, and gradually ramp up the risk. There are some fascinating Cold War stories about this very sort of thing.

[JoshSm]

In a lot of these cases it's just the FBI running stings. They don't seem to have enough high profile fun cases to work on (or at least can't detect them) so basically just create their own from thing air. All you need is an easily lead/gullible patsy and off you go.

[The Rotrex Kid]

JoshSm said:

In a lot of these cases it's just the FBI running stings. They don't seem to have enough high profile fun cases to work on (or at least can't detect them) so basically just create their own from thing air. All you need is an easily lead/gullible patsy and off you go.

One for the conspiracy thread there methinks!

[Ian Geary]

I can't blame the FBI for casting the net. Who knows what they'll find? Surely better to end up in the FBI's net than some other net? (From a USA pov)

I also read part of the plea bargain was helping to recover part of the $100k paid in crypto currency


Ie the family "have" it (albeit unable to spend itin the prison shop) but have agreed to give it back to lessen the sentence.

Which adds another question:is part of $100k really that big a deal to the FBI's budget?


Or is it more a case of the fbi ensuring the couple can't profit from their crime?

[JoshSm]

The Rotrex Kid said:

JoshSm said:

In a lot of these cases it's just the FBI running stings. They don't seem to have enough high profile fun cases to work on (or at least can't detect them) so basically just create their own from thing air. All you need is an easily lead/gullible patsy and off you go.

One for the conspiracy thread there methinks!

Not really a conspiracy, there's lots of cases where the FBI prosecutes people over weapons smuggling or espionage or whatever and the 'buyer' initiating the whole scheme from scratch was the FBI.

Fair enough to clean out the mugs and to show anyone tempted what would happen if they tried it for real.

[The Rotrex Kid]

JoshSm said:

The Rotrex Kid said:

JoshSm said:

In a lot of these cases it's just the FBI running stings. They don't seem to have enough high profile fun cases to work on (or at least can't detect them) so basically just create their own from thing air. All you need is an easily lead/gullible patsy and off you go.

One for the conspiracy thread there methinks!

Not really a conspiracy, there's lots of cases where the FBI prosecutes people over weapons smuggling or espionage or whatever and the 'buyer' initiating the whole scheme from scratch was the FBI.

Fair enough to clean out the mugs and to show anyone tempted what would happen if they tried it for real.

Well yes, but its hardly because they don't have enough fun things to do! It's a core part of their remit to expose any cracks in the system.....

[captain_cynic]

glazbagun said:

I'm sure there are ideological or disillusioned types out there but this case strikes me as sheer stupid greed from people who should know better. Or is it more a case of skilled and trusted people being paid poorly and feeling taken for granted. $100K doesn't seem worth the risk when your wife has a PhD and you've got a decent job, but maybe they were also up to their eyes in debt?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-6044222...

You tell an entire culture that greed is good and money Uber alles. Then you remove their moral compass by politically polarising them, rub their noses in lifestyles they can never obtain, finally give them access to sensitive information and expect them to remain loyal.

Combine the above with James Bond-esque fantasies and I'm surprised this does not happen more often.

They say every man has his price but I usually don't expect it to be that cheap. Although this is a problem the US has always had. For any foreign power getting a turncoat was only a matter of money going right back to Benedict Arnold who was turned for £6000 (granted, a large fortune back then).

Edited by captain_cynic on Saturday 19th February 12:07

[Ian974]

JoshSm said:

The Rotrex Kid said:

JoshSm said:

In a lot of these cases it's just the FBI running stings. They don't seem to have enough high profile fun cases to work on (or at least can't detect them) so basically just create their own from thing air. All you need is an easily lead/gullible patsy and off you go.

One for the conspiracy thread there methinks!

Not really a conspiracy, there's lots of cases where the FBI prosecutes people over weapons smuggling or espionage or whatever and the 'buyer' initiating the whole scheme from scratch was the FBI.

Fair enough to clean out the mugs and to show anyone tempted what would happen if they tried it for real.

I imagine there might be an element of deterrent to this as well. There will be quite a lot of folk involved in these sorts of industries who could be easily swayed by a wad of cash.
Having something like this pop up every now and then is a useful reminder that this stuff is carefully monitored and has very serious implications.

[Oakey]

It's not a secret that the FBI we're basically stitching up people for terrorism offenses. And by stitching them up, I mean actively encouraging them to engage in acts of terrorism; suggesting targets, giving them motive, providing the required tools to carry out these acts and then arresting the people they'd convinced when, unsurprisingly, they tried to do these things the FBI encouraged them to do.

[Lardydah]

MICE

Money, ideology, compromise, ego

[JuanCarlosFandango]

I think money cuts it. $100k tax free in your pocket is not to be sniffed at even for someone earning a good salary. And although he got caught that time, who knows if he had done it before.

[rodericb]

She had severe TDS, he is easily led I would suggest: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[captain_cynic]

rodericb said:

She had severe TDS, he is easily led I would suggest: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Truth derisions syndrome...

Something that Trump supporters tend to suffer from.

[bloomen]

It is striking how often it's simply money.

The risk/reward ratio makes it a barking mad proposition. Your nation will throw unlimited money and resources at finding you if they get the faintest sniff of it.

I'd take a few grand to sneak a peak of my double glazing firm's order book to another one. Stirring the fury of a government would come with a rather higher price tag.