Graphics Card Upgrade

[Equus]

Complete numpty questions:

I need to upgrade the graphics card on my aging desktop, to run some new graphics rendering software.

Current spec. is:

• Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce GT545 with 2GB VRAM
• Main processor: Intel Core i7-3770CPU @ 3.4Ghz
• 16GB main memory
• C: drive is a Samsung 850 Pro 1TB SSD and I have a 4TB SSD for data.
• 250W power supply.

In need to run as a minimum something like a Geforce RTX3070 or Radeon RX6700 with 8GB; I'm thinking about maybe something like an Asus Radeon RX6900XT graphics card with 16GB VRAM.

I'd rather not go through the pain of getting an entirely new PC and having to re-install software, copy files across, etc., so if I can make it work reasonably well with my current system, that would be preferable. I live in the arse end of nowhere, so if I can limit the upgrades to stuff that the local Currys/PC World can supply and install for me, so much the better (and convenience is more important to me than price, so I'm not bothered about hunting round for the cheapest supplier).

Questions:

I'm assuming I'll need a new power supply, but apart from that, is it a straightforward swap? Will the new graphics card simply plug into the existing motherboard, or will I need to upgrade other components as well? What else do I need to think about?

[judas]

Your biggest issue will be finding a graphics card at all unless you want to pay well over the odds from a scalper You certainly won’t get one from Currys/PC World at the moment.

[Ouroboros]

3050 are in stock just over 300.

you get 2 for similar price for 3070

Edited by Ouroboros on Monday 21st February 23:43

[Equus]

judas said:

You certainly won’t get one from Currys/PC World at the moment.

They're listing the Asus Radeon RX6900 as being in stock, at £1,500. Whether that is correct remains to be seen, but humor me for the moment and assume I'll actually be able to obtain one?

[BlueMR2]

Your processor may be a bit slow for a graphics card that fast.

You may be better getting a full system with good components for not a massive amount more.

[xeny]

BlueMR2 said:

Your processor may be a bit slow for a graphics card that fast.

You may be better getting a full system with good components for not a massive amount more.

Software that expects that much GPU may expect a more modern CPU. In particular check that it doesn't require a 4th Gen (with a i#-4### format model number) or later as they introduce what are called AVX2 instructions which are also useful for graphics apps.

You will definitely need a new power supply as the 6900XT looks to draw over 250W on its own.

Is it a generic PC chassis, or something from HP, Dell or similar with slightly non standard parts?

I'd be very tempted to buy a complete new machine and migrate software over as you find you need it or you'll end up with something like one of those crabs which have one claw hugely larger than their actual body.

[Equus]

xeny said:

I'd be very tempted to buy a complete new machine and migrate software over as you find you need it or you'll end up with something like one of those crabs which have one claw hugely larger than their actual body.

The specific software I need it to run (an architectural rendering package) doesn't have any minimum requirement for the CPU and actually states in its system requirements that 'almost all the calculations the software performs are being handled on the graphics card (GPU)', hence that may not be a particular problem, so long as everything works (the current system seems to run my other CAD software fluently enough, and other than that I don't use it for anything taxing - I'm not into gaming).

the system requirements said:

The software performs its renders using your graphics card (GPU), but the GPU has to have dedicated VRAM, and not shared VRAM as found with Intel Integrated Graphics chips. If your systems CPU and RAM are capable of handling Revit, for instance, and you have a capable GPU, the software should work. A good CPU can speed up the software’s loading times.

Another numpty question though: at what point does a 'Trigger's broom' become a new computer that needs reinstallation of software? I'm assuming that a new motherboard and CPU (which will be pretty much all that's left of the original electronics, once I've replaced the graphics card and PSU) would require a new installation of Windows. A reinstallation of all my software, what with finding old product keys etc., would be a major pain in the ass that I simply don't have time for at the moment, hence I'd rather avoid it if I can.

It's a Lenovo desktop PC, but to my eye it looks like pretty generic construction.

[devnull]

You should definitely consider a new PC. You say you have a Lenovo - from experience, business PCs tend to have good quality motherboards but are low on expandability and future upgradeability capabilities. Assuming you can even fit the new GFX card into the machine (the 3xxx series are huge), you would at a minimum need a new PSU. Also consider that business grade PCs sometimes have weirdo propriety power connectors and/or non standard shaped PSUs which might stop you at this point (rare but does happen).

I don't buy into the don't want to reinstall point - short term pain for a lot of long term gain. Xeny's point about running side by side and migrating is sound, that is how I would do it. A new PC will feel like a whole new experience.

[Miserablegit]

Given the situation with graphics cards at the moment and the fact you’ll need a new power supply anyway I’d be going for a new machine. I know it seems a waste but you’ll get a faster machine for not much more outlay.

I’d then do a clean install and migrate programs over as and when you need them- keeping the old machine as a back up.

[GoodDoc]

devnull said:

PSU. Also consider that business grade PCs sometimes have weirdo propriety power connectors and/or non standard shaped PSUs which might stop you at this point (rare but does happen).

I'll second this! I have a HP PC that was a decent specification when new, and still does sterling work now, but as soon as I wanted to upgrade anything other than RAM or storage I fell into a world of non-standard connectors for power delivery and low wattage power supplies custom designed to fit specific PCs. There were lots of solution to 'just about' make things works, but it just wasn't worth for GPU upgrades.

I do like business PC, but it very quickly became apparent that if you want decent upgrade options they are not a great place to start.

[paulrockliffe]

I'm fairly sure that if you take your windows license and attach it to a Microsoft Account you can move the hard drive over to entirely new hardware, sign in to the Microsoft Account and move the license painlessly. You might have other licensed software that griefs you though if it has hardware-tied licenses.

I would look at what £1000 gets you second hand, get something with a 2060 card in it, sell that on eBay leaving you with a cheap upgrade to your old PC, then add the new card.

My instinct is that it's worth spending the extra to upgrade the PC at the same time, so long as you're not budget limited by the card itself.

[Equus]

I know that this is PistonHeads, with a long-standing tradition of answering a different question to that actually asked, and yes, I get that there is good logic in replacing the whole system.

But can we just assume for the moment that I have made a decision to upgrade the existing machine, based on information about logistics and current business constraints that you've not been given information on?

Would anyone care to actually answer the questions posed?

[paulrockliffe]

Your last question was pretty open ended to be fair.

If you just want to know whether Currys can come and install a 3070 in your machine, you'd be better of just asking Currys or looking in the machine to see whether it will fit.

[journeymanpro]

Equus said:

I know that this is PistonHeads, with a long-standing tradition of answering a different question to that actually asked, and yes, I get that there is good logic in replacing the whole system.

But can we just assume for the moment that I have made a decision to upgrade the existing machine, based on information about logistics and current business constraints that you've not been given information on?

Would anyone care to actually answer the questions posed?

Chuckle

[Harpoon]

I'd echo that buying a new PC which is the right spec' and moving things over is going to be much easier.

If it's business use, I'd buy something from Dell / HP / Lenovo rather than something gaming orientated - fewer bells and whistles.

https://www.hp.com/gb-en/shop/product.aspx?id=2N2F... - £1570 inc VAT (can you claim the VAT back?) with a 3070 graphics card, 3 year on-site warranty etc etc. In stock, delivered in 3 days.

Depending how old your existing PC and monitor(s) are, you might need to see what video outputs are on a new PC in case you need a different cable, adaptor or even a new monitor.

[TO73074E]

www.scan.co.uk are a reputable supplier and can build a PC to your spec and ship it out to you.

[deckster]

Equus said:

Would anyone care to actually answer the questions posed?

You will 100% need a new PSU.

You will, probably, find it hard to find a GPU at a reasonable price. But you knew that already.

There is a non-zero chance that standard PSUs will not fit into your case, or connect to your system. We can't tell without actually seeing the internals of your system.

There is a non-zero chance that your case is too small to fit a 3x series GPU. We can't tell without actually seeing the internals of your system.

If your system does take a standard power supply, and your case is big enough for the new CPU. then you can swap in the PSU and GPU and it should (tm) All Just Work.

Hopefully that "answers the questions posed". But, being honest and friendly here, if this is business and time critical, then by far your path of least resistance is to buy a new machine that is pre-built and working. What is the impact to your business if you do this upgrade and knock your system out of commission for a couple of days? Unless you're well versed in ripping out the guts of your machine, it could easily take the best part of a day to do this and fix any problems that arise. Particularly if a machine has been running for a few years, it's very common for simply taking it apart to flex the motherboard or RAM sockets and expose dry or cracked joints which could cause any number of issues.

I note that your standard (and correct) answer to many questions posed in your sphere of expertise is "engage an expert". Perhaps take a moment to consider what "the experts" are telling you here.

[mmm-five]

If you put in a new, all-singing, all-dancing 1000W Platinum Digital PSU, is the motherboard capable of handling the increased power demands of a modern GPU.

• What's the motherboard?
• Is it PCIe 3 or PCIe4?
• How many slots does it have free for a new GPU?
• How much power can the PCIe slot deliver?
• How much space do you have for a chonky GPU?

Can you see why 'answering the question posed' is not as straightforward as you think?

However we could simply tell you that a RTX3090Ti will suit all your needs and let you find out the error on your own.

Edited by mmm-five on Tuesday 22 February 10:47

[xeny]

Equus said:

Would anyone care to actually answer the questions posed?

Typically you can move a windows installation around, but you'll run into issues with Windows activation (partly depending on how windows is licenced) Without an explicit list of all the software you've got installed, and corresponding licence agreements it is challenging to say the least to say how installed software will behave.

You've been somewhat cagy about the software you need to run but it appears to be Enscape 3D. They say your CPU should be able to handle Revit, and you seem to be looking at GPU requirements for VR according to https://enscape3d.com/community/blog/knowledgebase... . VR is notable for being reasonably demanding on a computer.

Revit's system requirements are here https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit/learn... and say "Single- or Multi-Core Intel®, Xeon®, or i-Series processor or AMD® equivalent with SSE2 technology. Highest affordable CPU speed rating recommended." for the balanced price and performance spec.

You're proposing to use a 9 year old CPU in the above context.

[Harpoon]

deckster said:

You will 100% need a new PSU.

You will, probably, find it hard to find a GPU at a reasonable price. But you knew that already.

There is a non-zero chance that standard PSUs will not fit into your case, or connect to your system. We can't tell without actually seeing the internals of your system.

There is a non-zero chance that your case is too small to fit a 3x series GPU. We can't tell without actually seeing the internals of your system.

If your system does take a standard power supply, and your case is big enough for the new CPU. then you can swap in the PSU and GPU and it should (tm) All Just Work.

We also need to see what the existing monitor connections, as something really old could be VGA or DVI and thus need a new monitor or cables.

As part of it All Just Working (TM), you may also have to uninstall old video drivers and install new drivers. That might work first time but you might also find you waste hours messing with them, BIOS settings and the like to get it all working.