Steering pump whine
Discussion
Good afternoon all.
I took the complete steering system apart this winter for a complete overhaul.
I have changed all of the pipes which I either bought in internet or at my local hydraulic pipe reseller.
The pump itself is a new unit and the steering rack has just returned from Racing Green for a sealing replacement and general overhaul.
Now that everything is back together, I can't seem to get rid of the pump whine.
No matter how many times I steer from left to right in an attempt to get rid of the potential bubbles in the system, I can't get the system to behave the way it was working before.
After a night at rest, the engine is started, the pump produces a small whine which increases in intensity as the oil circulates in the system.
After 1-2 minutes of operation the noise is so loud and present that I fear for the integrity of the pump itself.
The hydraulic fluid is Total Fluidmatic ATX. The liquid is red and after several minutes of operation it is all frothy inside of the tank.
I have been trying for quite some time now and I have the feeling that something is not quite right.
What are the checks I can perform in order to verify is everything is working fine?
What about the high-pressure pipe being too restrictive? (Just in case the connectors have been badly crimped on to the pipe), Could it have an influence on the pump noise?
Any pointers would be highly appreciated.
Thanks
Philippe
I took the complete steering system apart this winter for a complete overhaul.
I have changed all of the pipes which I either bought in internet or at my local hydraulic pipe reseller.
The pump itself is a new unit and the steering rack has just returned from Racing Green for a sealing replacement and general overhaul.
Now that everything is back together, I can't seem to get rid of the pump whine.
No matter how many times I steer from left to right in an attempt to get rid of the potential bubbles in the system, I can't get the system to behave the way it was working before.
After a night at rest, the engine is started, the pump produces a small whine which increases in intensity as the oil circulates in the system.
After 1-2 minutes of operation the noise is so loud and present that I fear for the integrity of the pump itself.
The hydraulic fluid is Total Fluidmatic ATX. The liquid is red and after several minutes of operation it is all frothy inside of the tank.
I have been trying for quite some time now and I have the feeling that something is not quite right.
What are the checks I can perform in order to verify is everything is working fine?
What about the high-pressure pipe being too restrictive? (Just in case the connectors have been badly crimped on to the pipe), Could it have an influence on the pump noise?
Any pointers would be highly appreciated.
Thanks
Philippe
intake restriction will create pump whine noise When I changed my power steering fluid, even with first cycling the steering wheel from side to side with the engine off, it took 3 days for all the air to come out, then the pump stopped whining. The reservoir just turned into a mess of foam each time I turned the engine on. Finally it just came right.
I have ordered two bottles of finest ATF 220 and we'll see if it improves the situation.
While I'll be flushing the system, I'll also give a go to cleaning the bottle.
Didn't know there was a mesh inside...and don't see how to access it.
Will keep you posted on the progresses.
If nothing works, I'll just go ahead, purchase the short belt and bypass the steering pump altogether.
Don't want to miss any bit of sun this year and certainly not the Le Mans Classic.
While I'll be flushing the system, I'll also give a go to cleaning the bottle.
Didn't know there was a mesh inside...and don't see how to access it.
Will keep you posted on the progresses.
If nothing works, I'll just go ahead, purchase the short belt and bypass the steering pump altogether.
Don't want to miss any bit of sun this year and certainly not the Le Mans Classic.
Have you fitted replacement hoses? And if so was it the kit with the 'U' bend formed from cone seat fittings? If so then dismantle the fitting and see if the cone seat on all parts are nice and uniform. If the joints have been tightened well then you should see nice witness marks (rings) on the mating parts.
In any case when you refit I would suggest adding a sealant.
I've had them leak after fitting so likewise they could be where your air is getting in. The ATF turning pink is air.
Steve
In any case when you refit I would suggest adding a sealant.
I've had them leak after fitting so likewise they could be where your air is getting in. The ATF turning pink is air.
Steve
Steve,
Yes I have fitted replacement hoses which I didn't purchase as a kit. These are normal hydraulic pipes, correct diameter, which I have cut to lenght.
And yes, I am using the U shapped metal pipe at the entry of the pump.
I would imagine air is getting in the system indeed. This just drives me nuts. I can't seem to find where the air is coming in from.
Sorry but I didn't get the part with the mating surfaces. Could you explain it again?
I am seriously considering leaving the system as it is and just changing the belt for a non PAS car to bypass the pump.
I fear that driving long distances with this noise will:
1) drive me nuts
2) damage the pump until failure.
Don't want that happening on the way to Le Mans Classic.
What is the routing of the belt on a non PAS car? Can't find any picture on the forum. It is a seprentine engine.
Yes I have fitted replacement hoses which I didn't purchase as a kit. These are normal hydraulic pipes, correct diameter, which I have cut to lenght.
And yes, I am using the U shapped metal pipe at the entry of the pump.
I would imagine air is getting in the system indeed. This just drives me nuts. I can't seem to find where the air is coming in from.
Sorry but I didn't get the part with the mating surfaces. Could you explain it again?
I am seriously considering leaving the system as it is and just changing the belt for a non PAS car to bypass the pump.
I fear that driving long distances with this noise will:
1) drive me nuts
2) damage the pump until failure.
Don't want that happening on the way to Le Mans Classic.
What is the routing of the belt on a non PAS car? Can't find any picture on the forum. It is a seprentine engine.
I am completely lost with what to do next.
I have replaced the steering fluid with proper ATF 220: no results, the whine is still there.
I have replaced the high pressure hose. This is now a new unit from "Parts for TVR" and the o'ring is there: the whine is still there.
I have dismantled all pipes and re-installed them, doubling the clips in an attempt to prevent any air getting in the system: the whine is still there.
What else can I do? Coudn't the noise be more of a mechanical nature? Like a misalignment of the pump in the casing, causing the vibration to happen?
Please help me out, this is driving me nuts.
Thanks
Philippe
I have replaced the steering fluid with proper ATF 220: no results, the whine is still there.
I have replaced the high pressure hose. This is now a new unit from "Parts for TVR" and the o'ring is there: the whine is still there.
I have dismantled all pipes and re-installed them, doubling the clips in an attempt to prevent any air getting in the system: the whine is still there.
What else can I do? Coudn't the noise be more of a mechanical nature? Like a misalignment of the pump in the casing, causing the vibration to happen?
Please help me out, this is driving me nuts.
Thanks
Philippe
Im sure you have done the following already but here goes.
Jack the car up so the front wheels are off the ground so the steering can turn without any resistance.
Have someone else sit in the car ready to turn the steering wheel from side to side almost to its limit each side, but not completely.
Now remove the filler cap to view the level, and have the other person start to turn the steering....slowly, from side to side.
You should see air bubbles in the reservoir as the wheel is turned. Keep doing this and checking the level for at least 5 minutes.
Start the car and check for any noise.
Repeat the above process a few more times if required, and hopefully you will have removed all the air.
Think back to a point in time before you dismantled the P.A.S for maintenance.
Why did you have the rack refurbed ? was it just leaking seals ? Was there any problems before with the pump or rack ?
If we assume the refurb is good, the pump is the working original, or if a new pump it is good, then it can only be air in the system.
Jack the car up so the front wheels are off the ground so the steering can turn without any resistance.
Have someone else sit in the car ready to turn the steering wheel from side to side almost to its limit each side, but not completely.
Now remove the filler cap to view the level, and have the other person start to turn the steering....slowly, from side to side.
You should see air bubbles in the reservoir as the wheel is turned. Keep doing this and checking the level for at least 5 minutes.
Start the car and check for any noise.
Repeat the above process a few more times if required, and hopefully you will have removed all the air.
Think back to a point in time before you dismantled the P.A.S for maintenance.
Why did you have the rack refurbed ? was it just leaking seals ? Was there any problems before with the pump or rack ?
If we assume the refurb is good, the pump is the working original, or if a new pump it is good, then it can only be air in the system.
TJC46 said:
Im sure you have done the following already but here goes.
Jack the car up so the front wheels are off the ground so the steering can turn without any resistance.
Have someone else sit in the car ready to turn the steering wheel from side to side almost to its limit each side, but not completely.
Now remove the filler cap to view the level, and have the other person start to turn the steering....slowly, from side to side.
You should see air bubbles in the reservoir as the wheel is turned. Keep doing this and checking the level for at least 5 minutes.
Start the car and check for any noise.
Repeat the above process a few more times if required, and hopefully you will have removed all the air.
Think back to a point in time before you dismantled the P.A.S for maintenance.
Why did you have the rack refurbed ? was it just leaking seals ? Was there any problems before with the pump or rack ?
If we assume the refurb is good, the pump is the working original, or if a new pump it is good, then it can only be air in the system.
I have done all of the above several time indeed.Jack the car up so the front wheels are off the ground so the steering can turn without any resistance.
Have someone else sit in the car ready to turn the steering wheel from side to side almost to its limit each side, but not completely.
Now remove the filler cap to view the level, and have the other person start to turn the steering....slowly, from side to side.
You should see air bubbles in the reservoir as the wheel is turned. Keep doing this and checking the level for at least 5 minutes.
Start the car and check for any noise.
Repeat the above process a few more times if required, and hopefully you will have removed all the air.
Think back to a point in time before you dismantled the P.A.S for maintenance.
Why did you have the rack refurbed ? was it just leaking seals ? Was there any problems before with the pump or rack ?
If we assume the refurb is good, the pump is the working original, or if a new pump it is good, then it can only be air in the system.
The rack was overhauled by Racing Green last month. Before that, the right hand side boot would fill with steering fluid, indicating a shot seal.
Now, I have removed the U pipe at the entry of the pump and connected the pipe directly. I have put two hose clips in an attempt to ensure tightness.
And the liquid is frotthy again and the whine is back after 20-30s.
I can't understand where the air is coming from? It can only be from the aspiration side, right? If there was any leak, I would see it? And the liquid would be going out, not the air going in?
What the hell is going on?
And the liquid is frotthy again and the whine is back after 20-30s.
I can't understand where the air is coming from? It can only be from the aspiration side, right? If there was any leak, I would see it? And the liquid would be going out, not the air going in?
What the hell is going on?
That's it, i am done with this pump. Moving on to another strategy.
I have aquired a Citroën saxo electric pump and will substitute it to the mechanical one.
Since I have one old one remaining from an old swap, I have re-used it as a free wheel to be installed in place of the pump.
It has been emptied from its internals and filled with bearing grease.
Pleased to report that the whining noise has left me for good.
Now.... I need to install the electric pump and connect it.
Given the current requirement of the pump, I must wire it with 10 AWG minimum.
And this is where it gets difficult. Most of the automotive electrical stuff is for small cables (16 AWG max) and I can't seem to find the necessary connectors and crimping terminals.
Do you guys know a shop (on-line) where I could find automotive 2 poles connectors in 10 AWG?
Thanks
Philippe
I have aquired a Citroën saxo electric pump and will substitute it to the mechanical one.
Since I have one old one remaining from an old swap, I have re-used it as a free wheel to be installed in place of the pump.
It has been emptied from its internals and filled with bearing grease.
Pleased to report that the whining noise has left me for good.
Now.... I need to install the electric pump and connect it.
Given the current requirement of the pump, I must wire it with 10 AWG minimum.
And this is where it gets difficult. Most of the automotive electrical stuff is for small cables (16 AWG max) and I can't seem to find the necessary connectors and crimping terminals.
Do you guys know a shop (on-line) where I could find automotive 2 poles connectors in 10 AWG?
Thanks
Philippe
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