First ever experience of a rogue debiting one of my bank ac
Discussion
A debit card transaction appeared on a current account bank statement, involving a burger shop which I have never dealt with.
Luckily it is a tiny amount, but that is probably a test technique, before attempting bigger sums.
When queried with the bank, I was told that it was an online transaction. Impossible though to speak to their Fraud Department. Holding with speaker phone three times for 40 minutes.
Do they not answer, so they don't have to reimburse ?
Debit card cancelled and account balance now minimal.
I have never had a bank card stolen or lost.
I expect we all sometimes make a purchase by phone and need to give Card Number, Expiry, and Code.
If the person we talk to happens to be dishonest, they presumably have everything needed for an online purchase.
Almost always I use credit cards (not debit) first because protection is better, and secondly cash back is automatic.
At ATMs I always hold an object above my fingers, when entering a PIN, so try to be as careful as possible.
I am intrigued that this all seems too easy for fraudsters and the bank seems useless in helping.
I thought perhaps of not having a debit card, but they are sometimes required to set up a new online payee.
Is the answer to keep minimal cash in a current account? Would cash in savings account (without debit card) be safer place?
Comments about debit cards welcome. Let's not get involved with email or phone scammers, because at least resistance is a possibility, whereas card fraud seems beyond our control.
Edited by Jon39 on Monday 14th March 07:30
I can't help with your particular problem but I was having trouble with a large pension provider and, like you, I was on hold for an eternity without anyone answering. I sent an old fashioned letter through the post and had a reply in two days.
You could do the same and have a paper trail to boot.
You could do the same and have a paper trail to boot.
One of my CCs started being used for online payments just before Christmas. I have no idea how the details got out, but when the CC company looked at the records the orders were placed using an Apple device (I don't have any) and sent to a different address. I queried them over the fact that addresses were supposed to match, but they said not. It seems these days companies are happy to deliver to a different address (as Amazon does).
Luckily - or perhaps because CCs have different rules to debit cards - I got all the money back without quibble or delay, and a new card very soon after. In total there were about 8 bogus transactions totalling around £700.
Interestingly if I rang the customer services number I had to wait 30+ minutes and spoke to a jobsworth; if you ring the fraud number they answer immediately and have a decent IQ!
Luckily - or perhaps because CCs have different rules to debit cards - I got all the money back without quibble or delay, and a new card very soon after. In total there were about 8 bogus transactions totalling around £700.
Interestingly if I rang the customer services number I had to wait 30+ minutes and spoke to a jobsworth; if you ring the fraud number they answer immediately and have a decent IQ!
I may be a little bit over-cautious but I pay for everything with credit cards, never have more than £200 in my current account and avoid Direct Debits like the plague!
As far as I'm concerned if the credit card gets compromised its the banks problem not mine. If I were to loose a load of money fraudulently from my current a/c then even though I may get it back its my problem to sort out and I don't want that problem.
As far as I'm concerned if the credit card gets compromised its the banks problem not mine. If I were to loose a load of money fraudulently from my current a/c then even though I may get it back its my problem to sort out and I don't want that problem.
Ean218 said:
I may be a little bit over-cautious but I pay for everything with credit cards, never have more than £200 in my current account and avoid Direct Debits like the plague!
As far as I'm concerned if the credit card gets compromised its the banks problem not mine. If I were to loose a load of money fraudulently from my current a/c then even though I may get it back its my problem to sort out and I don't want that problem.
As far as I'm concerned if the credit card gets compromised its the banks problem not mine. If I were to loose a load of money fraudulently from my current a/c then even though I may get it back its my problem to sort out and I don't want that problem.
Yes good point about CC is their problem and DC our problem.
I have never had a CC compromised, but had a couple of occasions involving duff goods. Point that out online before statement due for payment, then they dealt with everything. None of the hold the telephone nonsense.
I also avoided DDs, even use standing orders for Council Taxes, but has become more difficult to avoid now with many services.
How do you handle that? Those who still accept bill payments, understandably charge higher prices.
I am using a separate bank for DDs, but that was the one nobbled.
I now realise that renewed bank cards continue with the same card number. Now I have cancelled mine, the replacement will have a different number. Don't really want it, although it is required if doing a new online payee which is annoying. HSBC is better in that respect with their little number pad gadget.
Jon39 said:
What puzzles me most, is that this particular account debit card, has only been used on two occasions during the past few years.
Have debit cards become more hazardous now ?
What use is the bank reimbursement rule, if a bank refuses to even talk to you ?
Unfortunately card fraud happens, you’re usually fully protected and refunded, I’d try not to let it stress you out too much.
Greshamst said:
Jon39 said:
What puzzles me most, is that this particular account debit card, has only been used on two occasions during the past few years.
Have debit cards become more hazardous now ?
What use is the bank reimbursement rule, if a bank refuses to even talk to you ?
Unfortunately card fraud happens, you’re usually fully protected and refunded', I’d try not to let it stress you out too much.
Thank you. That is interesting. It was fortunate that it was a tiny amount and that I spotted it fairly promptly, so was then able to invalidate the debit card number they used.
The fraudsters were not as bright as they might think. They had a week to take a significant sum, but blew it by being too slow.
The only stress for me, is realising that, 'you’re usually fully protected and refunded', turned out to be myth with debit cards. The bank easily got out of that, by refusing to speak.
The particular bank involved, state a maximum daily payment amount, which applies when you want to quickly reduce a balance. Daily to me and to most people, is Monday, Tuesday etc. To the bank, daily means 24 hours since your previous withdrawal payment. More obfuscation.
The money was moved immediately to another institution, then moved again to get it away from a current account. The original bank mark it as a pending transaction, which further extends the timescale of their daily payment limit.
Edited by Jon39 on Monday 14th March 17:38
Jon39 said:
The only stress for me, is realising that, 'you’re usually fully protected and refunded', turned out to be myth with debit cards. The bank easily got out of that, by refusing to speak.
The particular bank involved, state a maximum daily payment amount, which applies when you want to quickly reduce a balance. Daily to me and to most people, is Monday, Tuesday etc. To the bank, daily means 24 hours since your previous withdrawal payment. More obfuscation.
The money was moved immediately to another institution, then moved again to get it away from a current account. The original bank mark it as a pending transaction, which further extends the timescale of their daily payment limit.
The bank may have emptied its 'phone answering' department to pay for a website and TV advertising, but you can still write a letter, and if they don't reply, proceed to the banking ombudsman. They can't get out of an obligation just by not answering the phone. Not quick of course, but then how urgently do you need £10 back? The card is cancelled so no more money can disappear.The particular bank involved, state a maximum daily payment amount, which applies when you want to quickly reduce a balance. Daily to me and to most people, is Monday, Tuesday etc. To the bank, daily means 24 hours since your previous withdrawal payment. More obfuscation.
The money was moved immediately to another institution, then moved again to get it away from a current account. The original bank mark it as a pending transaction, which further extends the timescale of their daily payment limit.
As for the 24 hours, well, we face that when we buy or sell funds and seem to manage
Simpo Two said:
The bank may have emptied its 'phone answering' department to pay for a website and TV advertising, but you can still write a letter, and if they don't reply, proceed to the banking ombudsman. They can't get out of an obligation just by not answering the phone. Not quick of course, but then how urgently do you need £10 back? The card is cancelled so no more money can disappear.
As for the 24 hours, well, we face that when we buy or sell funds and seem to manage
As for the 24 hours, well, we face that when we buy or sell funds and seem to manage
Thank you.
Yes, certainly agree what you say, but of course it is obvious to them, that customers won't bother to follow up as they are entitled to, when the amount involved is miniscule.
Rather suspicious, that after describing the circumstance to the first bank human spoken to, we are told, " I will put you through to our Fraud Department, but please hold because I have to talk to them first". Perhaps they tip off the FD not to answer the call, because it will be an easy fob off.
Have never held funds (have been lucky doing it myself), but maybe the fund operators make 24 hours clear to their customers, whereas this bank just display 'daily' on their online banking system. Inevitably, depending on circumstances, confusion will occur.
Anyway, 7pm now, so they might let me move another chunk of money.
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