HC modifications - any Roundabout accidents yet?
Discussion
It’s still a bone of contention but most people seem to agree that the new rules reinforce something that had never been ‘in the culture’ but still technically the case - that people crossing at the exits from RABs have priority over traffic on the RAB.
At the weekend I had the opportunity to test this out.
Extremely heavy Sunday morning traffic (often due to other road closures) meant that I ended up waiting for some time at the junction of a cycle path with the A505, just after a RAB. In this sort of circumstance I would normally stay on the road and use the RAB, but here there is no way on to the path after the RAB and the path takes a better route.
Anyway I got fed up and started to slowly creep out onto the (2 lane) dual carriageway. No one stopped and there was much swerving and a horn blower who continued blowing well after passing me and for all I know was still incandescent with rage even when he got to the M11.
For the ‘suicidal cyclists’ blame brigade I wasn’t actually in much danger as the traffic was doing no more than about 15 mph, and I was easily visible a long way back from all junctions. However there are people much more militant (and brave) than me who are no doubt already taking this further - hence my question.
Strangely enough, when I reached the central reservation, drivers in both lanes immediately slowed to let me cross (and the same thing happened last week as well). My interpretation would be that I didn’t actually have priority crossing the RAB entry lanes as the drivers remain on the ‘same road’ until on the RAB, but drivers already slowing for the RAB are happy to let a cyclist cross.
At the weekend I had the opportunity to test this out.
Extremely heavy Sunday morning traffic (often due to other road closures) meant that I ended up waiting for some time at the junction of a cycle path with the A505, just after a RAB. In this sort of circumstance I would normally stay on the road and use the RAB, but here there is no way on to the path after the RAB and the path takes a better route.
Anyway I got fed up and started to slowly creep out onto the (2 lane) dual carriageway. No one stopped and there was much swerving and a horn blower who continued blowing well after passing me and for all I know was still incandescent with rage even when he got to the M11.
For the ‘suicidal cyclists’ blame brigade I wasn’t actually in much danger as the traffic was doing no more than about 15 mph, and I was easily visible a long way back from all junctions. However there are people much more militant (and brave) than me who are no doubt already taking this further - hence my question.
Strangely enough, when I reached the central reservation, drivers in both lanes immediately slowed to let me cross (and the same thing happened last week as well). My interpretation would be that I didn’t actually have priority crossing the RAB entry lanes as the drivers remain on the ‘same road’ until on the RAB, but drivers already slowing for the RAB are happy to let a cyclist cross.
Well, the bit about cyclists being able to go "right" on a roundabout by going on the left side all the way round has been in there for ages - and in some places they have painted a sort of cycle lane all the way round...
Not a great idea really, I've always been taught to cycle more like a slow motorbike! So multi lane roundabouts (except really big ones or those with proper paths through the middle) and other multi lane junctions to just use the correct lane as anyone else would - the idea being that you are where drivers are expecting you to be, so they are more likely to see you. Generally speed isn't an issue as cars aren't going that fast on a roundabout that you'd actually hold anyone up.
Obviously high speed main roads are another matter and require a different approach!
Crossings near exits to roundabouts are a daft idea as a rule, people are already looking in every direction to make sure they aren't cutting in front of anyone as they move over to leave (and to see if anyone is cutting in front of them!)
Not a great idea really, I've always been taught to cycle more like a slow motorbike! So multi lane roundabouts (except really big ones or those with proper paths through the middle) and other multi lane junctions to just use the correct lane as anyone else would - the idea being that you are where drivers are expecting you to be, so they are more likely to see you. Generally speed isn't an issue as cars aren't going that fast on a roundabout that you'd actually hold anyone up.
Obviously high speed main roads are another matter and require a different approach!
Crossings near exits to roundabouts are a daft idea as a rule, people are already looking in every direction to make sure they aren't cutting in front of anyone as they move over to leave (and to see if anyone is cutting in front of them!)
IJWS15 said:
I still act, and position myself, like a car.
Some of the roundabouts I use are quite high speed (30-40) and I don't want to take the chance that someone will assume I am turning left off the roundabout and continuing round it.
Yes, I do the same. However in this specific instance I actually wanted to use the cycle lane - which cuts a big corner off the main road further along and there is no way on to the cycle lane without crossing the exit to the RAB (Dual carriageway and the cycle lane is on top of a 15 foot bank next to the RAB). My point really is that an alien cyclist reading the latest version of the HC might expect at least someone in a stream of traffic to respect priority. Some of the roundabouts I use are quite high speed (30-40) and I don't want to take the chance that someone will assume I am turning left off the roundabout and continuing round it.
Foss62 said:
My point really is that an alien cyclist reading the latest version of the HC might expect at least someone in a stream of traffic to respect priority.
Can you point to the specific bit of the highway code you're referring to? Much as I support people walking and cycling I don't think 'pedestrians wanting to cross at roundabout exits get priority' is in the HC, nor is it a particularly good idea for reasons given above.There is the bit about giving priority to pedestrians wanting to cross a side road that you're turning into, but the highway code treats junctions and roundabouts in separate sections, so if it was to apply to roundabout exits I would expect it to have been added to the roundabout section, which from memory it wasn't.
There are differences in wording between junctions and roundabouts.
I don't think either apply to cyclist crossing as it specifically says "pedestrians", which makes some sense as cyclists shouldn't be on pavements. Traffic crossing in front of you (including cyclists) having priority seems to be limited to traffic on the roundabout. From what I've seen cycle lanes often have road markings and usually give way markings when crossing a road, road markings should be obeyed.
As a driver I will be trying to avoid hitting other road users and that may involve stopping while exiting a roundabout but as a cyclist on a minor road or cycle path I wouldn't expect to have priority when crossing a major road.
Road Junctions Rule 170 said:
Take extra care at junctions. You should
- give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way
- give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way
Roundabouts Rule 187 said:
In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to
- pedestrians who may be crossing the approach and exit roads
- traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit
I would take that as pedestrians having priority at junctions and pedestrians being a hazard to watch out for at the exit of roundabouts. - pedestrians who may be crossing the approach and exit roads
- traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit
I don't think either apply to cyclist crossing as it specifically says "pedestrians", which makes some sense as cyclists shouldn't be on pavements. Traffic crossing in front of you (including cyclists) having priority seems to be limited to traffic on the roundabout. From what I've seen cycle lanes often have road markings and usually give way markings when crossing a road, road markings should be obeyed.
As a driver I will be trying to avoid hitting other road users and that may involve stopping while exiting a roundabout but as a cyclist on a minor road or cycle path I wouldn't expect to have priority when crossing a major road.
donteatpeople said:
There are differences in wording between junctions and roundabouts.
I don't think either apply to cyclist crossing as it specifically says "pedestrians", which makes some sense as cyclists shouldn't be on pavements. Traffic crossing in front of you (including cyclists) having priority seems to be limited to traffic on the roundabout. From what I've seen cycle lanes often have road markings and usually give way markings when crossing a road, road markings should be obeyed.
As a driver I will be trying to avoid hitting other road users and that may involve stopping while exiting a roundabout but as a cyclist on a minor road or cycle path I wouldn't expect to have priority when crossing a major road.
I suppose it depends if the rules pertaining to RABs put them in a specific category or if they are just junctions with some additional rules? If the latter, vehicles are ‘turning’ into roads whenever they enter or leave the RAB, and just have a specific requirement to give way to the right when entering.Road Junctions Rule 170 said:
Take extra care at junctions. You should
- give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way
- give way to pedestrians crossing or waiting to cross a road into which or from which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way
Roundabouts Rule 187 said:
In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to
- pedestrians who may be crossing the approach and exit roads
- traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit
I would take that as pedestrians having priority at junctions and pedestrians being a hazard to watch out for at the exit of roundabouts. - pedestrians who may be crossing the approach and exit roads
- traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit
I don't think either apply to cyclist crossing as it specifically says "pedestrians", which makes some sense as cyclists shouldn't be on pavements. Traffic crossing in front of you (including cyclists) having priority seems to be limited to traffic on the roundabout. From what I've seen cycle lanes often have road markings and usually give way markings when crossing a road, road markings should be obeyed.
As a driver I will be trying to avoid hitting other road users and that may involve stopping while exiting a roundabout but as a cyclist on a minor road or cycle path I wouldn't expect to have priority when crossing a major road.
I must admit I don’t know the answer.
Cycle lanes that cross close to RABs are crazy anyway and I think most cyclists try to avoid them by using the RAB in the normal way.
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