How can she plead not guilty?
Discussion
Apologies in advance if this is a bit long winded, I'll keep it as short as possible!
In August last year I was returning from work in London at about 9.30 pm and coming down the A21. I joined a dual carriageway part and was doing about 70, at that point a 4x4 came flying past me, doing 100+ IMO. Anyway the dual carriageway part wasn't too long and I actually said out loud 'good luck making the roundabout at that speed'......well she didn't! As I came round the corner there was the 4x4 facing me having lost control and hit the roundabout, demolishing a sign and badly damaging her car. There was also two cars parked at the side of the road and two people standing by them, my initial reaction was that they'd been involved but I was later informed that one car had broken down, they weren't hit by the 4x4.
I slowed down ready to stop when the 4x4 drove off, badly damaged but still apparently driveable. I followed and phoned 999 assuming that it was a stolen car. I kept up a commentary including when she clipped roadside bollards later on, until she finally pulled over and stopped in a layby.
After a while and after checking with the 999 operator I got out and approached the 4x4, the driver was a lady, probably in her early 40's and quite obviously drunk. I chatted to her for 25 minutes until the fire service and police finally arrived and then they took over, I gave an intial statement at roadside and a much fuller statement later on.
She was charged with offences relating to the accident and also drink driving and I have now been informed that she has pleaded not guilty and I will be required to give evidence in court in a few months time.
My questions are how the hell can she plead not guilty, when it appears a slam dunk conviction to me and how likely is it to actually go to court, or will she change her plea when they confirm I and I asume other witnesses will be attending?
I could really do without having to take a day off work to attend court but have no qualms about doing so, however inconvenient it may be.
In August last year I was returning from work in London at about 9.30 pm and coming down the A21. I joined a dual carriageway part and was doing about 70, at that point a 4x4 came flying past me, doing 100+ IMO. Anyway the dual carriageway part wasn't too long and I actually said out loud 'good luck making the roundabout at that speed'......well she didn't! As I came round the corner there was the 4x4 facing me having lost control and hit the roundabout, demolishing a sign and badly damaging her car. There was also two cars parked at the side of the road and two people standing by them, my initial reaction was that they'd been involved but I was later informed that one car had broken down, they weren't hit by the 4x4.
I slowed down ready to stop when the 4x4 drove off, badly damaged but still apparently driveable. I followed and phoned 999 assuming that it was a stolen car. I kept up a commentary including when she clipped roadside bollards later on, until she finally pulled over and stopped in a layby.
After a while and after checking with the 999 operator I got out and approached the 4x4, the driver was a lady, probably in her early 40's and quite obviously drunk. I chatted to her for 25 minutes until the fire service and police finally arrived and then they took over, I gave an intial statement at roadside and a much fuller statement later on.
She was charged with offences relating to the accident and also drink driving and I have now been informed that she has pleaded not guilty and I will be required to give evidence in court in a few months time.
My questions are how the hell can she plead not guilty, when it appears a slam dunk conviction to me and how likely is it to actually go to court, or will she change her plea when they confirm I and I asume other witnesses will be attending?
I could really do without having to take a day off work to attend court but have no qualms about doing so, however inconvenient it may be.
She's probably chancing her luck. The police weren’t a witness to the driving so they're evidence is purely the evidential breath test etc.
She'll be hoping the witness (you, any others?) won't attend court, then the magistrates etc or the CPS may be inclined to drop the whole case.
As you said. If she has a solicitor, and the witnesses attend, she'll probably plead guilty on the day, and you won't need to give evidence.
She'll be hoping the witness (you, any others?) won't attend court, then the magistrates etc or the CPS may be inclined to drop the whole case.
As you said. If she has a solicitor, and the witnesses attend, she'll probably plead guilty on the day, and you won't need to give evidence.
Another possibility is that there has been some procedural mistake by the police and that her solicitor thinks that this is worth going Not Guilty for. Although you , her and the police might all have been fully aware that she was drunk, there is a requirement that she needs to provide two evidential breath samples at the police station in a certain time and that the readings in both should be no more than 10% apart (don't know if that is the correct figure, but it gives an idea of what must be done as part of the procedure). If this hasn't happened she shouldn't have been charged however perhaps the police think it's worth going with it when there are witnesses to say that she was drunk and if she doesn't have a solicitor to argue that point.
CoolHands said:
The way the courts are, she’s probably safeguarding her licence for another couple years at least. They only see about 2 customers a day. Covid, ya see
Yes that's probably what she is doing. I had to give a witness statement to the police over an accident where the driver was bang to rights on a careless driving charge. The police told me the guy was pleading not guilty just to delay losing his licence for as long as possible. He eventually changed his plea on the court date,Thanks all.
The court case is apparently set for August. I'm hoping when her defence know I am happy to give evidence they will tell her to change her plea, if not I'm going to have to spend a day in court, or at least take a day off work and waste it going to and from court whilst her defence waits until we all turn up before she then changes her plea.
As for claiming costs, I presume there is a maximum and I doubt if it's going to be a lot!
The court case is apparently set for August. I'm hoping when her defence know I am happy to give evidence they will tell her to change her plea, if not I'm going to have to spend a day in court, or at least take a day off work and waste it going to and from court whilst her defence waits until we all turn up before she then changes her plea.
As for claiming costs, I presume there is a maximum and I doubt if it's going to be a lot!
You're right, the Defence will play silly games -
Hope witnesses don't turn up, which is why they'll call someone who loves 300 miles away or a police officer that was just at scene and offers nothing of evidential value.
Hope there's an error with the procedure, a missed signature or no sound on the CCTV
Hope witnesses don't turn up, which is why they'll call someone who loves 300 miles away or a police officer that was just at scene and offers nothing of evidential value.
Hope there's an error with the procedure, a missed signature or no sound on the CCTV
i was done for drink driving 14 years ago, high risk, 3 times over the limit. Pled guilty.
I had to do a high risk offenders course, and straight away admitted i had a problem and needed to change,
The others on the course, well it was everyone else's fault, one had been drugged by a friend and put in the car and they phoned the police. The other drank 1 -2 bottles of wine a night and didn't see a problem, even after calculating the time until fully clear of alcohol, which was never.
The one thing I noticed was, they had no problems, they were selfish (as I was) and couldn't see any issues with drink driving.
I had to do a high risk offenders course, and straight away admitted i had a problem and needed to change,
The others on the course, well it was everyone else's fault, one had been drugged by a friend and put in the car and they phoned the police. The other drank 1 -2 bottles of wine a night and didn't see a problem, even after calculating the time until fully clear of alcohol, which was never.
The one thing I noticed was, they had no problems, they were selfish (as I was) and couldn't see any issues with drink driving.
Shiv_P said:
Good on you OP to agree to go to court at least, will bring one driver we don't need off the road!
I always assumed that if you were called. A didn't turn up, you could end up in the s
t. I was the only witness to my mate driving off the road, and hitting a guy that died 3 days later.
I was supposed to be a prosecution witness, but they never let me know. I knew when It was and turned up Anyway. And was called as a defence witness. Prosecution solicitor treated me like a lying
. Which didn't do their case any favours. I think turning up in a suit helped. Before hand one of the Police asked me why he wasn't pleading guilty. Erm, because then the guilt he was feeling would be even worse? Because the road surface was greasy and because he was driving normally, and the car had gone into a spin despite him being sober, driving normally at much less than the actual speed limit, and was a tragic accident.
They thought he should just plead guilty when he was not to save the court and them the hassle.
Obviouly not the case with said drunken driver.
nordboy said:
She's probably chancing her luck. The police weren’t a witness to the driving so they're evidence is purely the evidential breath test etc.
She'll be hoping the witness (you, any others?) won't attend court, then the magistrates etc or the CPS may be inclined to drop the whole case.
As you said. If she has a solicitor, and the witnesses attend, she'll probably plead guilty on the day, and you won't need to give evidence.
That^^.She'll be hoping the witness (you, any others?) won't attend court, then the magistrates etc or the CPS may be inclined to drop the whole case.
As you said. If she has a solicitor, and the witnesses attend, she'll probably plead guilty on the day, and you won't need to give evidence.
Piginapoke said:
She can plead whatever she wants, but will likely change it on the day,
What did she have to say for herself in the lay by?
Not a lot that made any sense, I won't go into any detail but suffice to say the 25 minutes I stood there waiting for the police to turn up was a long 25 minutes. What did she have to say for herself in the lay by?
Enut said:
Piginapoke said:
She can plead whatever she wants, but will likely change it on the day,
What did she have to say for herself in the lay by?
Not a lot that made any sense, I won't go into any detail but suffice to say the 25 minutes I stood there waiting for the police to turn up was a long 25 minutes. What did she have to say for herself in the lay by?
CoolHands said:
Instead they get a reward for pleading guilty
That annoys me. I had a drink driver. Nearly three times the limit. Driving like an idiot (number of witnesses before the crash). Crashed into a tree and seriously injured himself (thankfully no one else). Went no comment in interview. Then not guilty at court.
He went guilty on the day of the trail. After it had been postponed for a few months as they kept bringing something else up.
They still got a discount!
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