At what point does it reach one problem too many?
Discussion
I’ve been running a 2006 low mileage mint (bodywork/interior) condition BMW since June 2021, its been around Europe with me and overall its a great car. But it’s constantly needing something replaced. Over the last 10 months and 10,000 miles (out-with general maintenance) it’s needed £1,600 in new parts alone (not including labour) and I’m waiting on a quote for valve stem replacements which can be £1,500+ I believe. The average monthly running repair costs along with its 27mpg and high tax means I could have had something newer on HP finance and be better off. I decided to go down the route of owning a car outright so my outgoings were reduced but its not really worked out that way haha! I keep thinking that after every repair it’ll be reliable but then it always has a surprise up its sleeve. At what point do I just get rid of it as annoyingly I love this car.
Let's say it's cost you £3k in 12 months.
How much would a new car cost you over the same period in depreciation or monthlies?
It won't cost you this much every year. Every older car throws up a bill now and again. If the cost bothers you, put aside some money every month in a slush fund.
Or swap it for something Japanese or Korean.
ETA: IME the cost when acquiring used cars tends be front-loaded. I find I spend a ton in the first year getting the car up to my standards, then not much for a couple years, then the odd big bill every three years or so.
Still works out far more cost-effective than buying new or leasing as long as you hold onto the car for a few years.
How much would a new car cost you over the same period in depreciation or monthlies?
It won't cost you this much every year. Every older car throws up a bill now and again. If the cost bothers you, put aside some money every month in a slush fund.
Or swap it for something Japanese or Korean.
ETA: IME the cost when acquiring used cars tends be front-loaded. I find I spend a ton in the first year getting the car up to my standards, then not much for a couple years, then the odd big bill every three years or so.
Still works out far more cost-effective than buying new or leasing as long as you hold onto the car for a few years.
Edited by plenty on Sunday 3rd April 08:24
My rule would be variable depending on what needs doing. Clutch on an otherwise fine car at 150,000 for £1000, ok. Replacement engine for the same, not worth it. When is regularly costing more than is worth to repair or more than monthly rent on a new one would be, you're keeping it for love rather than sense. Basics eg tyres/ filter don't count. Brake pads might if I want to keep/ change
Mouse Rat said:
Carry out preventative maintenance. Research and schedule repairs / upgrades over the next 5 years.
Its a 16 year old BMW! If you're reactive only and wait for something to go wrong, it will!! and annoy you at the time.
That isn't necessarily sensible depending what's gone wrong - some things are predictable, some aren't.Its a 16 year old BMW! If you're reactive only and wait for something to go wrong, it will!! and annoy you at the time.
For me the tipping point is when something goes wrong and it either no longer upsets you, or it goes on the bottom of a list long enough to make you pause starting.
I was between cars about 5 years ago, when a family emergency meant I quickly needed to pick up something for hospital visits. I turned to what I felt I knew and bought a 12-year-old A3 2.0T.
The car had a very unusual and high spec, so I splashed out a further 15% of its purchase price doing a new cam belt and fixing all the small niggles. The first few weeks were spent using it and congratulating myself on my good fortune. You know what’s coming next though…!
The car started running rough and throwing up various codes after a few more weeks, so I spent another 20% of its purchase cost fixing this and some other arguably unnecessary titivation. I used it some more on business miles to recoup some of the spend.
At this point, there were still some things like brakes and general age-related issues with the car - plus potential unknowns. It fell into a limbo between not quite being a Shed, nor a particularly noteworthy car despite its huge spec.
I though to myself: “What am I doing? This isn’t a new car; it’s worth a tiny fraction of my income and it’s not like I can’t afford something decent. Just get a newer car for goodness sake!”. So, I traded it and crystallised a chunky loss.
I’m hindsight, I should have kept it longer. The car has since had 4 more years of fault-free MoTs and someone else has no doubt benefited from my spend! The problem is, I didn’t know that at the time…!
The car had a very unusual and high spec, so I splashed out a further 15% of its purchase price doing a new cam belt and fixing all the small niggles. The first few weeks were spent using it and congratulating myself on my good fortune. You know what’s coming next though…!
The car started running rough and throwing up various codes after a few more weeks, so I spent another 20% of its purchase cost fixing this and some other arguably unnecessary titivation. I used it some more on business miles to recoup some of the spend.
At this point, there were still some things like brakes and general age-related issues with the car - plus potential unknowns. It fell into a limbo between not quite being a Shed, nor a particularly noteworthy car despite its huge spec.
I though to myself: “What am I doing? This isn’t a new car; it’s worth a tiny fraction of my income and it’s not like I can’t afford something decent. Just get a newer car for goodness sake!”. So, I traded it and crystallised a chunky loss.
I’m hindsight, I should have kept it longer. The car has since had 4 more years of fault-free MoTs and someone else has no doubt benefited from my spend! The problem is, I didn’t know that at the time…!
I love older BMW's. From valve stem repair, Sounds like a v8. I always found mine (1998 735, 1999 740 and 2005 650) very reliable over the 320k miles I put on them over 15 years. But things do go wrong. I sold the 740 to a breaker for £500. It had 208k miles on it, but ran beautifully. It needed 4 new tyres @ 800, weeping waterpump @ 400 and the abs light came on, so either a sensor or pump @ 30 to 1500. Tough decision, but the correct one.
We had the same with my wife's extremely nice 2002 330i convertible, that we owned from 2010 to 2021. It had 78k miles when we sold it. It had been just normal maintenance up to last 2 years and 1200 miles, when it needed an alternator and AC pump and would need 4 tyres due to age, sold it. I did need the garage space it was taking up
An hour with a spreadsheet working out known costs like tax, ins, MOT, tyres and then add an amount for the unexpected like alternator, fuel tank, springs etc, then add a bit. The high tax is painful.
On the flip side, I do not like the way most car designs have evolved, so would keep the car. Sometimes logic just does not work.
We had the same with my wife's extremely nice 2002 330i convertible, that we owned from 2010 to 2021. It had 78k miles when we sold it. It had been just normal maintenance up to last 2 years and 1200 miles, when it needed an alternator and AC pump and would need 4 tyres due to age, sold it. I did need the garage space it was taking up
An hour with a spreadsheet working out known costs like tax, ins, MOT, tyres and then add an amount for the unexpected like alternator, fuel tank, springs etc, then add a bit. The high tax is painful.
On the flip side, I do not like the way most car designs have evolved, so would keep the car. Sometimes logic just does not work.
Years ago when I was struggling with a troublesome car, Mrs Swiss, who’s not into cars at all, remarked that I should get rid of it as “it isn’t making you happy”.
Initially I harrumphed at such a simplistic remark. I really liked the car. And what did she know, anyway?
But ultimately she was right. If this thing is now giving you more aggro than fun, then what are you actually doing?
Initially I harrumphed at such a simplistic remark. I really liked the car. And what did she know, anyway?
But ultimately she was right. If this thing is now giving you more aggro than fun, then what are you actually doing?
I think almost every car person has felt this way. Drive that long lusted after, much loved car then realise that you could buy a n other car, which is just as fast, much more reliable, nearly twice the mpg and has one of the new gizmos that you didn't know you wanted.......
Then you buy the new fangled idea and tell yourself you did the right thing.......but did you....
When it gets to the point where the old car is no longer the one you love go and find a newer model, it's not like your married to it ;-)
I went to the dark side and bought a 430D. NEVER wanted diesel, within two weeks I'd done 2k, it'd done 59mpg on a long steady run (over 600 miles round trip). Was quicker than the Cooper S it replaced, had more space, more toys and I still (over 6 months later) have not looked back.
The Cooper S had needed brakes, suspension, few electrical gremlins, couple of bushes here and there etc etc. It became unreliable to the point where it was a chore.
It was cheaper to fix, I could have even improved, but the new car makes me smile everyday, the old one didn't anymore.
Then you buy the new fangled idea and tell yourself you did the right thing.......but did you....
When it gets to the point where the old car is no longer the one you love go and find a newer model, it's not like your married to it ;-)
I went to the dark side and bought a 430D. NEVER wanted diesel, within two weeks I'd done 2k, it'd done 59mpg on a long steady run (over 600 miles round trip). Was quicker than the Cooper S it replaced, had more space, more toys and I still (over 6 months later) have not looked back.
The Cooper S had needed brakes, suspension, few electrical gremlins, couple of bushes here and there etc etc. It became unreliable to the point where it was a chore.
It was cheaper to fix, I could have even improved, but the new car makes me smile everyday, the old one didn't anymore.
I had my last car for 7 1/2 years, liked it, did everything I ever wanted, always said I would keep it forever and I spent a lot on maintaining it over the years.
It was going rusty but looked OK when clean and then two things went wrong with it, only minor items , still got me home, and I just fell out with it.
I had been saving because I knew it would need replacing at some time. I had been looking at 5 series BMW's and one appeared that really caught my eye. I got a small loan to top up what I had saved and that was it.
Really enjoying the 'new' car.
Taken some stick off people about it being a diesel and many comments about me saying I would keep the last one forever but I just fell out with it over two small repairs.
It was going rusty but looked OK when clean and then two things went wrong with it, only minor items , still got me home, and I just fell out with it.
I had been saving because I knew it would need replacing at some time. I had been looking at 5 series BMW's and one appeared that really caught my eye. I got a small loan to top up what I had saved and that was it.
Really enjoying the 'new' car.
Taken some stick off people about it being a diesel and many comments about me saying I would keep the last one forever but I just fell out with it over two small repairs.
plenty said:
Let's say it's cost you £3k in 12 months.
How much would a new car cost you over the same period in depreciation or monthlies?
It won't cost you this much every year. Every older car throws up a bill now and again. If the cost bothers you, put aside some money every month in a slush fund.
Or swap it for something Japanese or Korean.
ETA: IME the cost when acquiring used cars tends be front-loaded. I find I spend a ton in the first year getting the car up to my standards, then not much for a couple years, then the odd big bill every three years or so.
Still works out far more cost-effective than buying new or leasing as long as you hold onto the car for a few years.
This is my view also.How much would a new car cost you over the same period in depreciation or monthlies?
It won't cost you this much every year. Every older car throws up a bill now and again. If the cost bothers you, put aside some money every month in a slush fund.
Or swap it for something Japanese or Korean.
ETA: IME the cost when acquiring used cars tends be front-loaded. I find I spend a ton in the first year getting the car up to my standards, then not much for a couple years, then the odd big bill every three years or so.
Still works out far more cost-effective than buying new or leasing as long as you hold onto the car for a few years.
Edited by plenty on Sunday 3rd April 08:24
Occasionally you get a fault that is going to give you a big bill, that is the decision gate. Only once have I sold a car with a fault, because the cost of repair exceeded the value of the car without the fault (an intermittently slipping autobox) and I fancied a change anyway. However, the person who bought it, with the fault highlighted, has done another 50k miles (I have followed the MOT history
) so either fixed/swapped the gearbox more cheaply than I could, or has just lived with it.I've always prioritised any repairs and upgrades so that brakes and tyres are top priority, structure and suspension are second priority, engine and transmission are third priority, anything that would be an MOT advisory is next and everything else is a nice to have. I would rather my stereo cuts out than my brakes!
Sometimes you see cars for sale where the owner has sunk time and money into wraps, fairy lights and ICE but ignored things like brakes and tyres...
Chubbyross said:
Simple: when the money overtakes the love.
Or the money runs out entirely.
Or the money runs out entirely.
If the money is overtaking the love then the answer is simple - get shot before the money runs out.You may fall in love with your car but your car will never fall in love with you, and if you are in any way besotted with your car then its only ever going to be a one sided relationship which invariably end up as toxic and exploitative ones.
stuart-ermrc said:
I’ve been running a 2006 low mileage mint (bodywork/interior) condition BMW since June 2021, its been around Europe with me and overall its a great car. But it’s constantly needing something replaced. Over the last 10 months and 10,000 miles (out-with general maintenance) it’s needed £1,600 in new parts alone (not including labour) and I’m waiting on a quote for valve stem replacements which can be £1,500+ I believe. The average monthly running repair costs along with its 27mpg and high tax means I could have had something newer on HP finance and be better off. I decided to go down the route of owning a car outright so my outgoings were reduced but its not really worked out that way haha! I keep thinking that after every repair it’ll be reliable but then it always has a surprise up its sleeve. At what point do I just get rid of it as annoyingly I love this car.
I think the previous owner probably got it right!Throwing 4 -figure sums at old cars is fraught. It's OK when you are sure the car will give you long service afterwards. But there are so many things that can cost north of £500. How much fith do you have that you won't get 'too many' fair sized bills.
Big picture is that any car costs money in depreciation and/or repairs and £1k a year is a good average IMHO. So a good year can cost nothing and a bad year can cost £3k. If you can't handle the risk of a bad year, buy something newer and duller.
The other thing is - you've spent so much on it already, and if you get rid, that means the next owner benefits from your expense.
Don't know who's doing your car, BMW dealership?, but it might be worth shopping around a few garages or asking about good ones known to PHer's in your area?
Don't know who's doing your car, BMW dealership?, but it might be worth shopping around a few garages or asking about good ones known to PHer's in your area?
Depends on what your actual limit is vs the cars worth.
I ran a bmw for approx 11/12 yrs.
to be fair it was good to me in terms of bills. Never broke down and was mostly routine servicing.
I ran it to about 120k and at that point the clutch was in that “ I need replaced soon” territory.
3 yrs ago when I got rid of it the car was worth maybe 3k ? Vs a clutch bill of around £1.2k or so.
I decided I wouldn’t be the one paying for that and moved the car on at that stage.
If it wasn’t for that clutch I’d have just continued running it.
I ran a bmw for approx 11/12 yrs.
to be fair it was good to me in terms of bills. Never broke down and was mostly routine servicing.
I ran it to about 120k and at that point the clutch was in that “ I need replaced soon” territory.
3 yrs ago when I got rid of it the car was worth maybe 3k ? Vs a clutch bill of around £1.2k or so.
I decided I wouldn’t be the one paying for that and moved the car on at that stage.
If it wasn’t for that clutch I’d have just continued running it.
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