Councils to issue Yellow Box PCNs ?
Discussion
Much-needed new income stream for profligate Councils?
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20037656.drivers-w...
What a surprise that councils are going to use the motorist to generate more income. The fines aren’t justifiable to the “crime”. Silly mistake costs £80, yet other real illegal activities done intentionally can have lesser fines. It’s like the councils etc never ever make any mistakes. Aren’t we all human and so naturally make mistakes, every one of us.
Geffg said:
What a surprise that councils are going to use the motorist to generate more income. The fines aren’t justifiable to the “crime”. Silly mistake costs £80, yet other real illegal activities done intentionally can have lesser fines. It’s like the councils etc never ever make any mistakes. Aren’t we all human and so naturally make mistakes, every one of us.
I don't get the anger about yellow box fines.It's a massive, bright yellow box on the floor. The law is clear - if you are stationary in it, you get a fine.
It's hardly some kind of massive 'gotcha', is it? If your exit isn't clear, you don't enter - it's really simple.
London is rife with them, and I've somehow managed to completely avoid getting a fine from one in a decade or so driving here.
C70R said:
Geffg said:
What a surprise that councils are going to use the motorist to generate more income. The fines aren’t justifiable to the “crime”. Silly mistake costs £80, yet other real illegal activities done intentionally can have lesser fines. It’s like the councils etc never ever make any mistakes. Aren’t we all human and so naturally make mistakes, every one of us.
I don't get the anger about yellow box fines.It's a massive, bright yellow box on the floor. The law is clear - if you are stationary in it, you get a fine.
It's hardly some kind of massive 'gotcha', is it? If your exit isn't clear, you don't enter - it's really simple.
London is rife with them, and I've somehow managed to completely avoid getting a fine from one in a decade or so driving here.
C70R said:
I don't get the anger about yellow box fines.
It's a massive, bright yellow box on the floor. The law is clear - if you are stationary in it, you get a fine.
It's hardly some kind of massive 'gotcha', is it? If your exit isn't clear, you don't enter - it's really simple.
London is rife with them, and I've somehow managed to completely avoid getting a fine from one in a decade or so driving here.
Blocking a yellow box justifies a fine. Having the rear 6 inches or so of your car overhanging one does not. Yet London authorities seem not to see it that way.It's a massive, bright yellow box on the floor. The law is clear - if you are stationary in it, you get a fine.
It's hardly some kind of massive 'gotcha', is it? If your exit isn't clear, you don't enter - it's really simple.
London is rife with them, and I've somehow managed to completely avoid getting a fine from one in a decade or so driving here.
C70R said:
I don't get the anger about yellow box fines.
It's a massive, bright yellow box on the floor. The law is clear - if you are stationary in it, you get a fine.
It's hardly some kind of massive 'gotcha', is it? If your exit isn't clear, you don't enter - it's really simple.
London is rife with them, and I've somehow managed to completely avoid getting a fine from one in a decade or so driving here.
Unless your turning right!It's a massive, bright yellow box on the floor. The law is clear - if you are stationary in it, you get a fine.
It's hardly some kind of massive 'gotcha', is it? If your exit isn't clear, you don't enter - it's really simple.
London is rife with them, and I've somehow managed to completely avoid getting a fine from one in a decade or so driving here.
Cliftonite said:
Much-needed new income stream for profligate Councils?
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20037656.drivers-w...
It says Yellow boxes are used to ensure traffic flows smoothly through busy junctions and motorists should only enter them when their exit is clear or they are waiting to turn right.https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/20037656.drivers-w...
I do wish they would make it crystal clear and mention you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming vehicles, or BY OTHER VEHICLES WAITING TO TURN RIGHT.
We have one massive box up in Aberdeen, it’s a one way system, and as you are waiting at the lights, coming from Carmelite St you can’t see the end of the box as it is around the corner of the junction.
Forgot to add coming right to left, before the start of that ginormous box are regular lights, on the other side of the box it’s pedestrian controlled lights.
Edited by Vipers on Sunday 3rd April 11:40
Edited by Vipers on Sunday 3rd April 17:19
Vipers said:
It says Yellow boxes are used to ensure traffic flows smoothly through busy junctions and motorists should only enter them when their exit is clear or they are waiting to turn right.
I do wish they would make it crystal clear and mention you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming vehicles, or BY OTHER VEHICLES WAITING TO TURN RIGHT.
True.I do wish they would make it crystal clear and mention you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming vehicles, or BY OTHER VEHICLES WAITING TO TURN RIGHT.
But what do you then do, as a right-turner waiting patiently in the middle of the box-junction, when you find, as your light turns red, that your exit is now blocked by backed-up traffic that you had watched turning left as you waited?
Cliftonite said:
Vipers said:
It says Yellow boxes are used to ensure traffic flows smoothly through busy junctions and motorists should only enter them when their exit is clear or they are waiting to turn right.
I do wish they would make it crystal clear and mention you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming vehicles, or BY OTHER VEHICLES WAITING TO TURN RIGHT.
True.I do wish they would make it crystal clear and mention you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming vehicles, or BY OTHER VEHICLES WAITING TO TURN RIGHT.
But what do you then do, as a right-turner waiting patiently in the middle of the box-junction, when you find, as your light turns red, that your exit is now blocked by backed-up traffic that you had watched turning left as you waited?
The HC says this :-
You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right.
Edited by Vipers on Sunday 3rd April 12:48
normalbloke said:
C70R said:
Geffg said:
What a surprise that councils are going to use the motorist to generate more income. The fines aren’t justifiable to the “crime”. Silly mistake costs £80, yet other real illegal activities done intentionally can have lesser fines. It’s like the councils etc never ever make any mistakes. Aren’t we all human and so naturally make mistakes, every one of us.
I don't get the anger about yellow box fines.It's a massive, bright yellow box on the floor. The law is clear - if you are stationary in it, you get a fine.
It's hardly some kind of massive 'gotcha', is it? If your exit isn't clear, you don't enter - it's really simple.
London is rife with them, and I've somehow managed to completely avoid getting a fine from one in a decade or so driving here.
Of course you can remain stationary if you're turning right into a clear road, but that's not what any of this discussion was about.
Cliftonite said:
C70R said:
I don't get the anger about yellow box fines.
It's a massive, bright yellow box on the floor. The law is clear - if you are stationary in it, you get a fine.
It's hardly some kind of massive 'gotcha', is it? If your exit isn't clear, you don't enter - it's really simple.
London is rife with them, and I've somehow managed to completely avoid getting a fine from one in a decade or so driving here.
Blocking a yellow box justifies a fine. Having the rear 6 inches or so of your car overhanging one does not. Yet London authorities seem not to see it that way.It's a massive, bright yellow box on the floor. The law is clear - if you are stationary in it, you get a fine.
It's hardly some kind of massive 'gotcha', is it? If your exit isn't clear, you don't enter - it's really simple.
London is rife with them, and I've somehow managed to completely avoid getting a fine from one in a decade or so driving here.
Cliftonite said:
C70R said:
I don't get the anger about yellow box fines.
It's a massive, bright yellow box on the floor. The law is clear - if you are stationary in it, you get a fine.
It's hardly some kind of massive 'gotcha', is it? If your exit isn't clear, you don't enter - it's really simple.
London is rife with them, and I've somehow managed to completely avoid getting a fine from one in a decade or so driving here.
Blocking a yellow box justifies a fine. Having the rear 6 inches or so of your car overhanging one does not. Yet London authorities seem not to see it that way.It's a massive, bright yellow box on the floor. The law is clear - if you are stationary in it, you get a fine.
It's hardly some kind of massive 'gotcha', is it? If your exit isn't clear, you don't enter - it's really simple.
London is rife with them, and I've somehow managed to completely avoid getting a fine from one in a decade or so driving here.
From: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/rules-...
How to use a yellow box junction
You may enter a yellow box junction when your exit is clear and there is enough space on the other side of the junction for your vehicle to clear the box completely without stopping.
So having six inches of your car overhanging the box junction is a breach of the Law
Annoying scenario: Waiting at edge of yellow box for it to become clear and space for one car at exit, I move off into the yellow box and car appears from road on the right and sees the space I am heading for but hoofs it into that one car space then I'm left stranded in the yellow box and fined. No recourse and nothing I can do about it!
C70R said:
Geffg said:
What a surprise that councils are going to use the motorist to generate more income. The fines aren’t justifiable to the “crime”. Silly mistake costs £80, yet other real illegal activities done intentionally can have lesser fines. It’s like the councils etc never ever make any mistakes. Aren’t we all human and so naturally make mistakes, every one of us.
I don't get the anger about yellow box fines.It's a massive, bright yellow box on the floor. The law is clear - if you are stationary in it, you get a fine.
It's hardly some kind of massive 'gotcha', is it? If your exit isn't clear, you don't enter - it's really simple.
London is rife with them, and I've somehow managed to completely avoid getting a fine from one in a decade or so driving here.
Some waiting to turn right will also suddenly decide they don't want to and do the same, breeze into your empty lane and take the spot you were carefully and legally aiming for. But now you are stopped on the box.
My worry is instead of councils at least looking at the boxes and re-designing them to assist, they will just draw them everywhere they can.
4rephill said:
Cliftonite said:
C70R said:
I don't get the anger about yellow box fines.
It's a massive, bright yellow box on the floor. The law is clear - if you are stationary in it, you get a fine.
It's hardly some kind of massive 'gotcha', is it? If your exit isn't clear, you don't enter - it's really simple.
London is rife with them, and I've somehow managed to completely avoid getting a fine from one in a decade or so driving here.
Blocking a yellow box justifies a fine. Having the rear 6 inches or so of your car overhanging one does not. Yet London authorities seem not to see it that way.It's a massive, bright yellow box on the floor. The law is clear - if you are stationary in it, you get a fine.
It's hardly some kind of massive 'gotcha', is it? If your exit isn't clear, you don't enter - it's really simple.
London is rife with them, and I've somehow managed to completely avoid getting a fine from one in a decade or so driving here.
From: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/red-routes/rules-...
How to use a yellow box junction
You may enter a yellow box junction when your exit is clear and there is enough space on the other side of the junction for your vehicle to clear the box completely without stopping.
So having six inches of your car overhanging the box junction is a breach of the Law
WyrleyD said:
Annoying scenario: Waiting at edge of yellow box for it to become clear and space for one car at exit, I move off into the yellow box and car appears from road on the right and sees the space I am heading for but hoofs it into that one car space then I'm left stranded in the yellow box and fined. No recourse and nothing I can do about it!
The relevant law actually states:TSRGD 2002 said:
no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
The bit in bold is always missed out in the highway code, and other guidance on box junctions. However, the bit in bold would be the basis of your defence against a PCN in the circumstances that you described.
Edited by Mandat on Sunday 3rd April 13:55
Cliftonite said:
True.
But what do you then do, as a right-turner waiting patiently in the middle of the box-junction, when you find, as your light turns red, that your exit is now blocked by backed-up traffic that you had watched turning left as you waited?
If you are waiting in the middle of the box junction, then you would have passed the stop line for those lights, therefore in effect the lights do not apply to you any longer. But what do you then do, as a right-turner waiting patiently in the middle of the box-junction, when you find, as your light turns red, that your exit is now blocked by backed-up traffic that you had watched turning left as you waited?
In the circumstances that you describe, I would proceed to turn right when safe to do so.
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