Premium Sound queries
Discussion
I just updated the stereo on my 2009 V8V Roadster. Overall I'm very happy with the sound improvement. I was hoping someone could help with a couple of queries please:
1. I know all settings use the rear speakers, and with both Pro Logic and 3 channel off the centre speaker is not used, but what is the difference between the 3 Channel setting and Pro Logic and between it and everything off? I quite liked how 3 Channel sounds, but not quite sure exactly what it is.
2. In the music menu, what's the difference between upping the sub-woofer and upping the bass, considering the former essentially outputs the latter?
3. If in the music menu I fade completely to the rear speakers, they are exceptionally quiet, like maybe a quarter/fifth of the volume at the front. I know they are not the main drivers, but it still seems quiet to me. I think I had the sound set to 3 Channel at the time. Anyway, is this level of volume disparity entirely normal?
1. I know all settings use the rear speakers, and with both Pro Logic and 3 channel off the centre speaker is not used, but what is the difference between the 3 Channel setting and Pro Logic and between it and everything off? I quite liked how 3 Channel sounds, but not quite sure exactly what it is.
2. In the music menu, what's the difference between upping the sub-woofer and upping the bass, considering the former essentially outputs the latter?
3. If in the music menu I fade completely to the rear speakers, they are exceptionally quiet, like maybe a quarter/fifth of the volume at the front. I know they are not the main drivers, but it still seems quiet to me. I think I had the sound set to 3 Channel at the time. Anyway, is this level of volume disparity entirely normal?
TheHound said:
1. I know all settings use the rear speakers, and with both Pro Logic and 3 channel off the centre speaker is not used, but what is the difference between the 3 Channel setting and Pro Logic and between it and everything off? I quite liked how 3 Channel sounds, but not quite sure exactly what it is.
I dont believe the centre speaker is actually disabled in any of the settings. Pro Logic, 3 channel etc... are sound processing options. The amp uses a routine to "enhance" the sound distrubution to each speaker in order to make the soundstage wider. Its like choosing Dolby Pro Atmos or Dolby DTS etc on a home bluray in esscence. Go with whichever sounds best to your ears. May I suggest the settings in the FAQ above make a decent starting place for somebody new to Premium, and tweak to your own ears delight from there.TheHound said:
2. In the music menu, what's the difference between upping the sub-woofer and upping the bass, considering the former essentially outputs the latter?
The sub-woofer has a pre-filter applied so that ONLY deep bass is sent to it. Upping the volume therefore only increases the volume of those deepest notes. The bass adds as much feel to the "thump in your back" as it does to sound your ears can actually hear, too high however and it can cause unpleasant vibration and rattles in the car.The Bass setting increases the amount bass to ALL speakers, across a wider spread of bass frequencies than just the sub-woofer processes. Again too much can make the sound as bad as too little. Again start from FAQ and tweak to own preference.
TheHound said:
3. If in the music menu I fade completely to the rear speakers, they are exceptionally quiet, like maybe a quarter/fifth of the volume at the front. I know they are not the main drivers, but it still seems quiet to me. I think I had the sound set to 3 Channel at the time. Anyway, is this level of volume disparity entirely normal?
Try using Pro Logic on and using the "surround" option to change the "tone" of the sound going to the rears. +ve being equivalent of a high "tone" and -ve being the equivalent of a low "tone" setting.Again I've covered off a good starting setup to get a pleasing sound out of the rears in the FAQ above.
Thanks Adam. Was just wondering if there was a conceptual way of summing up the difference between 3 Channel and Pro Logic (and the main differences with "Off")?
I assume the EQ settings would apply regardless of which of the 3 are selected?
Great explanation on the sub, thank you.
On the rear speakers, noted. So that doesn't sound odd, that apparent degree of disparity?
I assume the EQ settings would apply regardless of which of the 3 are selected?
Great explanation on the sub, thank you.
On the rear speakers, noted. So that doesn't sound odd, that apparent degree of disparity?
TheHound said:
Thanks Adam. Was just wondering if there was a conceptual way of summing up the difference between 3 Channel and Pro Logic (and the main differences with "Off")?
They are different stound staging "effects", Pro Logic is one of the most established and long standing Dolby labs sound processing encoders. (google says it was released in 1982 - wow!) It is designed to give a wider soundstage and focus mid range human voice spectrum into the centre channel for a realistic experience of it coming from the tv / cinema screen, or I guess in a car the radio! 3 channel is simpler version and not Dolby Labs copyrighted, and I guess offers less rear focus sound staging.
The most natural stereo sound therefore would come from "off", which should be just pure stereo. That said "off" consequently makes far less use of the centre and rear speakers so you get a less "full" sound in the cabin. Having tried all 3 extensively I find "Pro Logic" to give the best overall and fullest sound, but off is indeed truest to how stereo music is intended to be listened to, but would in turn be a poor choice if Radio was your primary focus.
TheHound said:
I assume the EQ settings would apply regardless of which of the 3 are selected?
Good question - from memory (I dont have an AMi I car anymore, and this feature was discontinued in AMi II and III), there is a unique EQ settings memory per input channel. i.e. you can setup a different EQ saved for each of Radio, CD, etc....TheHound said:
On the rear speakers, noted. So that doesn't sound odd, that apparent degree of disparity?
The rear and centre speakers are just there to give surround sound, depth and a more 3D experience. They are not intended to be additional full spectrum speakers and as such are far less capable than the main stereo sets in the two doors. If you push too much sound through them you will realise that they don't sound anywhere near as good as the main stereo pairs in the doors, so there is a sweet spot to setting them, so that they just add a little 3D depth without revealing their limitations.
Edited by AdamV12V on Tuesday 26th April 19:30
Thanks Adam. I quite liked the 3 channel setting - Pro Logic (with all EQ settings flat) sounded a little lacking in body to me, and 3 Channel sounded almost like a nice halfway between the oomph of the off setting with better sound staging. I'll have a play and see - only done the one journey with it so far. I know people have posted recommended Pro Logic settings on here.
Yeah, I was just confused on the rears, as I know they're supplementary, but I read a post from someone who noticed them fading in and out and was asking why; I don't think I would notice them doing that, such is their volume, and I have a decent ear, so was thrown by just how quiet they were. It may because I checked using flat EQ settings on 3 Channel, though.
Yeah, I was just confused on the rears, as I know they're supplementary, but I read a post from someone who noticed them fading in and out and was asking why; I don't think I would notice them doing that, such is their volume, and I have a decent ear, so was thrown by just how quiet they were. It may because I checked using flat EQ settings on 3 Channel, though.
Ok so here is a copy of a thread I posted on the AMOC forums wayyyy back in 2009 when I had my first V8V and asked the same kind of questions you are asking about the rear speakers.
Hopefully it is a little help.
Shortly after this thread I began the tinkering that led to the FAQ settings above, which were the ones I posted. There have been others suggested I should add in the interests of fairness, some of which other people have preferred. Anyway I think its universally agreed the stock settings do not get the best out of the system.
AdamV12V - Aug 03, 2009
OK don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with the overall sound produced by the premium audio in my new V8 Vantage Coupe but in my quest for perfection I am trying to figure out why the rear speakers seem to under perform as a whole compared to the rest of the system. They seem very dull and muted compared to the fronts and the centre speaker.
So first I thought I would check the owners manual to see what "premium audio" physically comes with over the standard system. Sure enough lots of detail in the manual - page 8.2 states that the Premium Audio gets the following additional features :
Anyway next I went out to the car to see what I could find and have a fiddle with...
First stop try to locate the amp to see if there are any crossover settings on it which could be adjusted to release more sound to the rears. Well I didn't get off to the best start, I pulled off most of the panels in the boot and checked in that enclosure behind the seats but nothing, I've no idea where they have hidden the amp!!! Then again I didn't go to town dismantling the car in quite the same way as I would if I knew for sure where it was. Does anybody know where the premium amp is located so that I can have another and hopefully more productive attempt?
Second stop - check the rear speakers! This was quite easy, the grills pop off with very little effort - just a finger in the corner and off they pop and they are just as easy to get back on. Sure enough there are 2 speakers on each side as stated in the manual. A 4" mid range unit and a 1" tweeter mounted behind it (i.e. closer to the rear window). I was quite shocked to actually see the tweeter to be honest because no discernible treble whatsoever comes out of my rears - I wouldn't be totally surprised if the tweeters are not wired up but I'm sure they must be as that would be plain silly. But then again fitting them and then filtering out all the treble seems rather silly too! They look easy enough to remove with a screwdriver but as tonight was just a preliminary exploration without tools I stopped short of that. Anyway the good news here is that if replacement upgraded rears is the solution this is going to be very easy to do.
I'm pretty sure that as good as the premium audio is there is more that could be released from it with a little "setting up".
Need to find the amp first though - can anybody point me to the right location!Quote 0 0
Russell - Aug 03, 2009
rears do little apart from provide additonal mid/bass. where are you listening to the rears ? sat in the back ? where are they positioned to aid the sound stage ? nowhere im betting and if anything would detract from it when turned up.
you need them set so you can barely hear them and let the front do the work. if that isnt then you wasted your money.
you are listening to stereo. two channel. both should be in front of you. the rears should just add a bit of depth and further SPL.
thats my 2 cents
AdamV12V - Aug 04, 2009
Russell wrote: rears do little apart from provide additonal mid/bass. where are you listening to the rears ? sat in the back ?
errr??? back??? - the v8 vantage is a 2 seater!
Russell wrote: where are they positioned to aid the sound stage ? nowhere im betting and if anything would detract from it when turned up.
you need them set so you can barely hear them and let the front do the work. if that isnt then you wasted your money.
you are listening to stereo. two channel. both should be in front of you. the rears should just add a bit of depth and further SPL.
Yes, yes - I do have them set very low indeed at the moment as the sound they currently produce adds nothing really. For what its worth I have the 3d & pro-logic turned off but I would still like to try tweaking the rears to add a little more range to them.
So anybody know where the amp is - or better still have an idea of what model of alpine amp they use?
Grant - Aug 05, 2009
Although the rears are good quality they are really designed to add spatial depth, particularly with the Dolby turned on(the rears probably sound better than you think, just turn the fader to rear crank it up & turn around so your ears can hear it properly) , try it with Dolby switched on & some decent volume the depth of sound is very good. Don't forget you also have an equaliser as part of the premium package.
Press Release: Alpine Electronics, the car infotainment specialists, has developed a new bespoke sound system for the Aston Martin V8 Vantage. Designed specifically to get the best sound performance within the Vantage interior, Alpine has created a new subwoofer technology to maximise bass performance whilst custom speakers enhance the surround sound arrangement.
In keeping with Alpine’s strategy to use digital high power amplifiers, the Vantage is equipped with a substantial 700 watt amplifier that employs Dolby Pro Logic II home cinema technology to bring surround sound to stereo sources like a CD or FM radio.
"We are proud to be providing the soundtrack to the Vantage," says Alpine’s sales and marketing director Dave Sheen. "Research tells us many Aston Martin owners are real audio enthusiasts who enjoy listening to music on high end systems. The audio experience in the Vantage must therefore perform. We are delighted that Aston Martin selected Alpine to develop this important element and think that the surround sound experience is the perfect accompaniment to this car."
In its quest to accurately reproduce sound Alpine developed a unique subwoofer design, UR or Ultra Reflex. By tuning the acoustic alignment (rising responses) and filtering, the 15 litre subwoofer behaves like a much larger box creating considerably more sound for the space actually used.
Speakers designed by Alpine but manufactured by a Scandinavian Audio specialist confirm the commitment to audio brilliance. The bespoke speakers provide excellent linearity across the bandwidth, even at high volumes, an important, yet sometimes forgotten requirement in a sports car. To deliver the true surround sound performance, a dashboard mounted centre fill speaker delivers an ideal balance of sound ensuring occupants enjoy the audio sweet spot right in front of them.
About Alpine
Since 1978, Alpine has been at the forefront of in-car entertainment development, producing some of the world’s most advanced audio systems, on-board navigation and multimedia applications. As a result of focussing exclusively on high-fidelity in-car systems, Alpine has been nominated No.1 for customer satisfaction in the US for six consecutive years and is specified as original equipment in some of the world’s most prestigious marques.
Specification
Aston Martin V8 Vantage Premium Sound System includes:
- Watt Digital 5.1 amplifier, featuring Dolby Pro-Logic II technology
- Four 4 inch mid-bass speakers
- Two 1 inch soft dome tweeters
- One 4 inch co-ax mid-bass speaker mounted in the dashboard
- One UR 8 inch twin coil subwoofer and enclosure mounted behind the occupants
Dolby Pro Logic II
Dolby® Pro Logic® II technology processes any stereo (two-channel) music audio into five playback channels of surround sound. Using a matrix surround decoding technology, Dolby Pro Logic II detects the directional cues that occur naturally in stereo content and uses these elements to create a five-channel surround sound playback experience.
equaliser ...........
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-sMCLN7QLZnO/learn/lea...
AdamV12V - Aug 06, 2009
Well my little foray search for the Amp resulted in me finding it but declaring it "inaccessible" to mere mortals who do not wish to destroy their cars! Its located deep in the right rear wing of the car in front of the fuse box. Even after removing most of the boot carpet and if you had the worlds longest and thinnest arms I think it couldnt be reached, so I left well alone.
So bearing in mind the comments about Pro-Logic above I thought I would have a more in depth play with the settings on this feature as I had previously dismissed it as something that would detract from not add to the sound quality.
Positive results after an hour or so of stepping through each option one by one listening to its indivual effect on a single speaker. Interestingly with the Pro Logic switched on the new "Surround" option that appears doesnt add spacial effects as you might suspect but actually acts as an old fashioned "tone control" for the the rear speakers. The MIN setting making the rear sound very dull and the MAX setting making them very bright. The default setting for the rears with Pro-logic turned off is pretty much like the MIN setting with it turned on - hence I was rather unhappy before. With it switched on again I found the mid point a still a little flat/dull for my tastes but at about +30% it sounded quite neutral. Then I adjusted the front/rear fader 1 notch in favour of the rears and the sound became quite balanced and full, filling the cabin space with sound coming from all around (as I prefer). The rears give a reasonably full range set like this and are still quieter than the fronts which correctly carry most of the 'body' of the sound.
All that was left was to remove much of the centre speaker sound which to my ears hindered the stereo effect rather than enhancing it. I wound down the centre setting to about -70% and the resulting total effect was quite pleasing.
Seems Pro-logic isnt as bad as I had assumed. Although the settings seem a tad unusual to setup I have pretty much managed to achieve what I was hoping to do.
Hopefully it is a little help.
Shortly after this thread I began the tinkering that led to the FAQ settings above, which were the ones I posted. There have been others suggested I should add in the interests of fairness, some of which other people have preferred. Anyway I think its universally agreed the stock settings do not get the best out of the system.
AdamV12V - Aug 03, 2009
OK don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with the overall sound produced by the premium audio in my new V8 Vantage Coupe but in my quest for perfection I am trying to figure out why the rear speakers seem to under perform as a whole compared to the rest of the system. They seem very dull and muted compared to the fronts and the centre speaker.
So first I thought I would check the owners manual to see what "premium audio" physically comes with over the standard system. Sure enough lots of detail in the manual - page 8.2 states that the Premium Audio gets the following additional features :
- Door mounted speakers upgraded to 100W
- Two additional rear environment 100W speakers added (each with mid-range and tweeter units)
- Additional 100W centre-fill speaker
- Sudwoofer speaker upgraded to 200W
- Dolby Pro-Logic II
- Total power output of 700W
Anyway next I went out to the car to see what I could find and have a fiddle with...
First stop try to locate the amp to see if there are any crossover settings on it which could be adjusted to release more sound to the rears. Well I didn't get off to the best start, I pulled off most of the panels in the boot and checked in that enclosure behind the seats but nothing, I've no idea where they have hidden the amp!!! Then again I didn't go to town dismantling the car in quite the same way as I would if I knew for sure where it was. Does anybody know where the premium amp is located so that I can have another and hopefully more productive attempt?
Second stop - check the rear speakers! This was quite easy, the grills pop off with very little effort - just a finger in the corner and off they pop and they are just as easy to get back on. Sure enough there are 2 speakers on each side as stated in the manual. A 4" mid range unit and a 1" tweeter mounted behind it (i.e. closer to the rear window). I was quite shocked to actually see the tweeter to be honest because no discernible treble whatsoever comes out of my rears - I wouldn't be totally surprised if the tweeters are not wired up but I'm sure they must be as that would be plain silly. But then again fitting them and then filtering out all the treble seems rather silly too! They look easy enough to remove with a screwdriver but as tonight was just a preliminary exploration without tools I stopped short of that. Anyway the good news here is that if replacement upgraded rears is the solution this is going to be very easy to do.
I'm pretty sure that as good as the premium audio is there is more that could be released from it with a little "setting up".
Need to find the amp first though - can anybody point me to the right location!Quote 0 0
Russell - Aug 03, 2009
rears do little apart from provide additonal mid/bass. where are you listening to the rears ? sat in the back ? where are they positioned to aid the sound stage ? nowhere im betting and if anything would detract from it when turned up.
you need them set so you can barely hear them and let the front do the work. if that isnt then you wasted your money.
you are listening to stereo. two channel. both should be in front of you. the rears should just add a bit of depth and further SPL.
thats my 2 cents
AdamV12V - Aug 04, 2009
Russell wrote: rears do little apart from provide additonal mid/bass. where are you listening to the rears ? sat in the back ?
errr??? back??? - the v8 vantage is a 2 seater!
Russell wrote: where are they positioned to aid the sound stage ? nowhere im betting and if anything would detract from it when turned up.
you need them set so you can barely hear them and let the front do the work. if that isnt then you wasted your money.
you are listening to stereo. two channel. both should be in front of you. the rears should just add a bit of depth and further SPL.
Yes, yes - I do have them set very low indeed at the moment as the sound they currently produce adds nothing really. For what its worth I have the 3d & pro-logic turned off but I would still like to try tweaking the rears to add a little more range to them.
So anybody know where the amp is - or better still have an idea of what model of alpine amp they use?
Grant - Aug 05, 2009
Although the rears are good quality they are really designed to add spatial depth, particularly with the Dolby turned on(the rears probably sound better than you think, just turn the fader to rear crank it up & turn around so your ears can hear it properly) , try it with Dolby switched on & some decent volume the depth of sound is very good. Don't forget you also have an equaliser as part of the premium package.
Press Release: Alpine Electronics, the car infotainment specialists, has developed a new bespoke sound system for the Aston Martin V8 Vantage. Designed specifically to get the best sound performance within the Vantage interior, Alpine has created a new subwoofer technology to maximise bass performance whilst custom speakers enhance the surround sound arrangement.
In keeping with Alpine’s strategy to use digital high power amplifiers, the Vantage is equipped with a substantial 700 watt amplifier that employs Dolby Pro Logic II home cinema technology to bring surround sound to stereo sources like a CD or FM radio.
"We are proud to be providing the soundtrack to the Vantage," says Alpine’s sales and marketing director Dave Sheen. "Research tells us many Aston Martin owners are real audio enthusiasts who enjoy listening to music on high end systems. The audio experience in the Vantage must therefore perform. We are delighted that Aston Martin selected Alpine to develop this important element and think that the surround sound experience is the perfect accompaniment to this car."
In its quest to accurately reproduce sound Alpine developed a unique subwoofer design, UR or Ultra Reflex. By tuning the acoustic alignment (rising responses) and filtering, the 15 litre subwoofer behaves like a much larger box creating considerably more sound for the space actually used.
Speakers designed by Alpine but manufactured by a Scandinavian Audio specialist confirm the commitment to audio brilliance. The bespoke speakers provide excellent linearity across the bandwidth, even at high volumes, an important, yet sometimes forgotten requirement in a sports car. To deliver the true surround sound performance, a dashboard mounted centre fill speaker delivers an ideal balance of sound ensuring occupants enjoy the audio sweet spot right in front of them.
About Alpine
Since 1978, Alpine has been at the forefront of in-car entertainment development, producing some of the world’s most advanced audio systems, on-board navigation and multimedia applications. As a result of focussing exclusively on high-fidelity in-car systems, Alpine has been nominated No.1 for customer satisfaction in the US for six consecutive years and is specified as original equipment in some of the world’s most prestigious marques.
Specification
Aston Martin V8 Vantage Premium Sound System includes:
- Watt Digital 5.1 amplifier, featuring Dolby Pro-Logic II technology
- Four 4 inch mid-bass speakers
- Two 1 inch soft dome tweeters
- One 4 inch co-ax mid-bass speaker mounted in the dashboard
- One UR 8 inch twin coil subwoofer and enclosure mounted behind the occupants
Dolby Pro Logic II
Dolby® Pro Logic® II technology processes any stereo (two-channel) music audio into five playback channels of surround sound. Using a matrix surround decoding technology, Dolby Pro Logic II detects the directional cues that occur naturally in stereo content and uses these elements to create a five-channel surround sound playback experience.
equaliser ...........
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-sMCLN7QLZnO/learn/lea...
AdamV12V - Aug 06, 2009
Well my little foray search for the Amp resulted in me finding it but declaring it "inaccessible" to mere mortals who do not wish to destroy their cars! Its located deep in the right rear wing of the car in front of the fuse box. Even after removing most of the boot carpet and if you had the worlds longest and thinnest arms I think it couldnt be reached, so I left well alone.
So bearing in mind the comments about Pro-Logic above I thought I would have a more in depth play with the settings on this feature as I had previously dismissed it as something that would detract from not add to the sound quality.
Positive results after an hour or so of stepping through each option one by one listening to its indivual effect on a single speaker. Interestingly with the Pro Logic switched on the new "Surround" option that appears doesnt add spacial effects as you might suspect but actually acts as an old fashioned "tone control" for the the rear speakers. The MIN setting making the rear sound very dull and the MAX setting making them very bright. The default setting for the rears with Pro-logic turned off is pretty much like the MIN setting with it turned on - hence I was rather unhappy before. With it switched on again I found the mid point a still a little flat/dull for my tastes but at about +30% it sounded quite neutral. Then I adjusted the front/rear fader 1 notch in favour of the rears and the sound became quite balanced and full, filling the cabin space with sound coming from all around (as I prefer). The rears give a reasonably full range set like this and are still quieter than the fronts which correctly carry most of the 'body' of the sound.
All that was left was to remove much of the centre speaker sound which to my ears hindered the stereo effect rather than enhancing it. I wound down the centre setting to about -70% and the resulting total effect was quite pleasing.
Seems Pro-logic isnt as bad as I had assumed. Although the settings seem a tad unusual to setup I have pretty much managed to achieve what I was hoping to do.
Edited by AdamV12V on Wednesday 27th April 15:53
Thanks, chap, that's informative. I will try a few different settings and see what I settle on. I went for a drive to listen a bit more - it is nice compared to the basic version the car had. Very different from the B&O in my S6 - less refined but lively and fun, and compelling. Quite Naim-sounding.
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff