PCN for puncture repair
Discussion
I was recently traveling in a car along a dual carriageway (fast main road, nowhere to pull over safely and evening approaching) when the tyre pressure warning light came on. Unfortunately for us as it later transpired, a service station was approaching so the driver took the stupid but safe option of pulling off to check the tyre pressures (tyres were all fine when they were measured at the start of the journey).
As there was a large bulge in the tyre along with the sound of gushing air coming out of a hole, it was immediately obvious that there was no chance of a repair with tyre goo, and as the car did not come with a spare, the passengers had no choice but to ring round mobile tyre mechanics. One of our group popped into the service station and asked an attendant if it was OK that we had parked in the car park as we had broken down and were waiting for assistance, they said that was fine.
Unfortunately as everyone's priority was getting the car repaired and back on the road as quickly as possible, noone spotted the notice stating that the driver had entered into a contract to pay £100 for staying over two hours. That it must have taken two and a quarter hours for the mobile mechanic to arrive and change the tyre was evidenced by the PCN courtesy of the ANPR which noone noticed on arrival. Though having said that, it's not entirely clear what alternative they had, since driving a car with a totally flat tyre out of the safety of a service station and parking it in the nearside lane of a fast A road with nightfall approaching would have been an offence under section 41A of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and would have risked the driver getting three points and a £100 penalty.
Is waiting for a new tyre a legitimate reason for frustration of contract? According to Google searches of the parking company, others have previously had appeals for the same reason turned down by them and by POPLA. Having subsequently looked at the service station website, it appears stays of over two hours are permitted on purchase of a ticket in one of the shops, though would an offer to pay at this stage be considered an admission of guilt? Also worth mentioning that one of the other occupants popped into one of the shops and bought a load of food whilst they were waiting; the car park was empty the whole time we were there so noone was denied parking due to the stranded vehicle; and there are no technical irregularities on the PCN notice.
Is this worth appealing, and are there any legal precedents? Given it happened the other end of the country to where the driver lives, I don't expect they will be too happy to attend a court hearing if it ever came to that.
As there was a large bulge in the tyre along with the sound of gushing air coming out of a hole, it was immediately obvious that there was no chance of a repair with tyre goo, and as the car did not come with a spare, the passengers had no choice but to ring round mobile tyre mechanics. One of our group popped into the service station and asked an attendant if it was OK that we had parked in the car park as we had broken down and were waiting for assistance, they said that was fine.
Unfortunately as everyone's priority was getting the car repaired and back on the road as quickly as possible, noone spotted the notice stating that the driver had entered into a contract to pay £100 for staying over two hours. That it must have taken two and a quarter hours for the mobile mechanic to arrive and change the tyre was evidenced by the PCN courtesy of the ANPR which noone noticed on arrival. Though having said that, it's not entirely clear what alternative they had, since driving a car with a totally flat tyre out of the safety of a service station and parking it in the nearside lane of a fast A road with nightfall approaching would have been an offence under section 41A of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and would have risked the driver getting three points and a £100 penalty.
Is waiting for a new tyre a legitimate reason for frustration of contract? According to Google searches of the parking company, others have previously had appeals for the same reason turned down by them and by POPLA. Having subsequently looked at the service station website, it appears stays of over two hours are permitted on purchase of a ticket in one of the shops, though would an offer to pay at this stage be considered an admission of guilt? Also worth mentioning that one of the other occupants popped into one of the shops and bought a load of food whilst they were waiting; the car park was empty the whole time we were there so noone was denied parking due to the stranded vehicle; and there are no technical irregularities on the PCN notice.
Is this worth appealing, and are there any legal precedents? Given it happened the other end of the country to where the driver lives, I don't expect they will be too happy to attend a court hearing if it ever came to that.
Does seem a little unfair.
I didn't realise they used anpr to enforce it.
Another reason to carry a spare, and not to buy a new car, which rarely come with spares these days. Think of all the co2 and fuel you've saved by having less weight on board, you've just lost it on the anpr fine. That's progress I suppose.
I didn't realise they used anpr to enforce it.
Another reason to carry a spare, and not to buy a new car, which rarely come with spares these days. Think of all the co2 and fuel you've saved by having less weight on board, you've just lost it on the anpr fine. That's progress I suppose.
Chromegrill said:
I was recently traveling in a car along a dual carriageway (fast main road, nowhere to pull over safely and evening approaching) when the tyre pressure warning light came on. Unfortunately for us as it later transpired, a service station was approaching so the driver took the stupid but safe option of pulling off to check the tyre pressures (tyres were all fine when they were measured at the start of the journey).
As there was a large bulge in the tyre along with the sound of gushing air coming out of a hole, it was immediately obvious that there was no chance of a repair with tyre goo, and as the car did not come with a spare, the passengers had no choice but to ring round mobile tyre mechanics. One of our group popped into the service station and asked an attendant if it was OK that we had parked in the car park as we had broken down and were waiting for assistance, they said that was fine.
Unfortunately as everyone's priority was getting the car repaired and back on the road as quickly as possible, noone spotted the notice stating that the driver had entered into a contract to pay £100 for staying over two hours. That it must have taken two and a quarter hours for the mobile mechanic to arrive and change the tyre was evidenced by the PCN courtesy of the ANPR which noone noticed on arrival. Though having said that, it's not entirely clear what alternative they had, since driving a car with a totally flat tyre out of the safety of a service station and parking it in the nearside lane of a fast A road with nightfall approaching would have been an offence under section 41A of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and would have risked the driver getting three points and a £100 penalty.
Is waiting for a new tyre a legitimate reason for frustration of contract? According to Google searches of the parking company, others have previously had appeals for the same reason turned down by them and by POPLA. Having subsequently looked at the service station website, it appears stays of over two hours are permitted on purchase of a ticket in one of the shops, though would an offer to pay at this stage be considered an admission of guilt? Also worth mentioning that one of the other occupants popped into one of the shops and bought a load of food whilst they were waiting; the car park was empty the whole time we were there so noone was denied parking due to the stranded vehicle; and there are no technical irregularities on the PCN notice.
Is this worth appealing, and are there any legal precedents? Given it happened the other end of the country to where the driver lives, I don't expect they will be too happy to attend a court hearing if it ever came to that.
It does seem unfair, especially when the adverts on telly tell you to stop and have a sleep at the services if you feel tired, and the fact that you had broken down.As there was a large bulge in the tyre along with the sound of gushing air coming out of a hole, it was immediately obvious that there was no chance of a repair with tyre goo, and as the car did not come with a spare, the passengers had no choice but to ring round mobile tyre mechanics. One of our group popped into the service station and asked an attendant if it was OK that we had parked in the car park as we had broken down and were waiting for assistance, they said that was fine.
Unfortunately as everyone's priority was getting the car repaired and back on the road as quickly as possible, noone spotted the notice stating that the driver had entered into a contract to pay £100 for staying over two hours. That it must have taken two and a quarter hours for the mobile mechanic to arrive and change the tyre was evidenced by the PCN courtesy of the ANPR which noone noticed on arrival. Though having said that, it's not entirely clear what alternative they had, since driving a car with a totally flat tyre out of the safety of a service station and parking it in the nearside lane of a fast A road with nightfall approaching would have been an offence under section 41A of the Road Traffic Act 1988 and would have risked the driver getting three points and a £100 penalty.
Is waiting for a new tyre a legitimate reason for frustration of contract? According to Google searches of the parking company, others have previously had appeals for the same reason turned down by them and by POPLA. Having subsequently looked at the service station website, it appears stays of over two hours are permitted on purchase of a ticket in one of the shops, though would an offer to pay at this stage be considered an admission of guilt? Also worth mentioning that one of the other occupants popped into one of the shops and bought a load of food whilst they were waiting; the car park was empty the whole time we were there so noone was denied parking due to the stranded vehicle; and there are no technical irregularities on the PCN notice.
Is this worth appealing, and are there any legal precedents? Given it happened the other end of the country to where the driver lives, I don't expect they will be too happy to attend a court hearing if it ever came to that.
I would imagine that the terms are well signposted, so likelyhood is that you will have to stump up and pay - the argument would be - during your two hour wait, none of you noticed the signs. You could try speaking to the manager of the service station, but you would likely not get anywhere.
Before paying up, I would ask on PeePiPoo (think that's spelt right) - they are generally quite helpful with this sort of thing.
M4cruiser said:
Does seem a little unfair.
I didn't realise they used anpr to enforce it.
Another reason to carry a spare, and not to buy a new car, which rarely come with spares these days. Think of all the co2 and fuel you've saved by having less weight on board, you've just lost it on the anpr fine. That's progress I suppose.
Not necessarily new cars. My 2004 Gen 1 mini convertible does not have space for a spare (even a spacesaver), but yes, if your car has space for one I would agree - get one. In addition, on all of mine where it will fit, I have replaced the spacesaver for a full size spare (having once received a flat 200 miles from home on a Sunday evening and having to drive at 50mph all the way home)I didn't realise they used anpr to enforce it.
Another reason to carry a spare, and not to buy a new car, which rarely come with spares these days. Think of all the co2 and fuel you've saved by having less weight on board, you've just lost it on the anpr fine. That's progress I suppose.
Did the attendant say words to the effect that you were permitted to stay until repair or recovery was done?
If so, write to say the posted contract was varied orally by the attendant, and that you did not stay for 2 hours after the repair was completed.
Describe the attendant so they have a chance to identify the person from their staff roster that day.
Post what they respond with.
If so, write to say the posted contract was varied orally by the attendant, and that you did not stay for 2 hours after the repair was completed.
Describe the attendant so they have a chance to identify the person from their staff roster that day.
Post what they respond with.
I assume that this is a Parking Charge Notice, rather than a Penalty Charge Notice?
If it's the former, there is a reasonable chance you won't need to pay - I would suggest you head over to the MoneySavingExpert forum as there is a massive thread on there covering what to do and who to talk to.
The people to talk to are probably the landowners (the people who run the service station) on whose behalf the parking company are acting.
I'm no expert, but I think you would be ok if you can get the people on the service station onside, but really, get over to the MSE forum for a better picture.
If it's the former, there is a reasonable chance you won't need to pay - I would suggest you head over to the MoneySavingExpert forum as there is a massive thread on there covering what to do and who to talk to.
The people to talk to are probably the landowners (the people who run the service station) on whose behalf the parking company are acting.
I'm no expert, but I think you would be ok if you can get the people on the service station onside, but really, get over to the MSE forum for a better picture.
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
Not necessarily new cars. My 2004 Gen 1 mini convertible does not have space for a spare (even a spacesaver), but yes, if your car has space for one I would agree - get one. In addition, on all of mine where it will fit, I have replaced the spacesaver for a full size spare (having once received a flat 200 miles from home on a Sunday evening and having to drive at 50mph all the way home)
You swapped a space saver for a full size because just once, you took an hour longer to get home? Once.Bad form from the garage.IMHO.
I popped a driveshaft outside a local wicke# with a near identical signage at 7am and the female manager not only helped me push it out of the way, she added the Registration to that day’s exemption list.
The AA took over the allowed time to bring thunderbird4 along and I’ve not heard anything, from the parking company.
I’ll see if I still have a picture of the sign.
Edit. Signage added.
I popped a driveshaft outside a local wicke# with a near identical signage at 7am and the female manager not only helped me push it out of the way, she added the Registration to that day’s exemption list.
The AA took over the allowed time to bring thunderbird4 along and I’ve not heard anything, from the parking company.
I’ll see if I still have a picture of the sign.
Edit. Signage added.
Edited by Hol on Friday 29th April 06:21
I changed to normal tyres from run flats recently and found a place online that supply space savers in all sizes. Their kit comes in a nylon bag with everything needed.
Bonus was they are based about ten minutes away from me. Just wasn't going to chance it.
My son had car trouble and overstayed at some motorway services, a fine duly arrived. We appealed it by sending the breakdown companies report and the fine was waived.
Bonus was they are based about ten minutes away from me. Just wasn't going to chance it.
My son had car trouble and overstayed at some motorway services, a fine duly arrived. We appealed it by sending the breakdown companies report and the fine was waived.
Edited by randomeddy on Friday 29th April 06:17
Hol said:
Bad form from the garagestaff member at the garage .IMHO.
I popped a driveshaft outside a local wicke# with a near identical signage at 7am and the female manager not only helped me push it out of the way, she added the Registration to that day’s exemption list
That's what should happen if they were sensible and remembered. I popped a driveshaft outside a local wicke# with a near identical signage at 7am and the female manager not only helped me push it out of the way, she added the Registration to that day’s exemption list
There is a exemption written into Motorway service area contracts to cover things like breakdowns but if no one cba telling someone so be it.
Just out of interest what difference did it make the manager being female?
Further up the thread.
Don't come up with the "don't drive tired" bullpoo excuse
, there's a minimum 2 hours free parking on signed MSA's and always an option to pay for extra before leaving site.Seen all 'the excuses' before
The same 'should also apply on signed trunk road service areas. These are in place generally as people took the proverbial.
oyster said:
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
Not necessarily new cars. My 2004 Gen 1 mini convertible does not have space for a spare (even a spacesaver), but yes, if your car has space for one I would agree - get one. In addition, on all of mine where it will fit, I have replaced the spacesaver for a full size spare (having once received a flat 200 miles from home on a Sunday evening and having to drive at 50mph all the way home)
You swapped a space saver for a full size because just once, you took an hour longer to get home? Once.Edited by TriumphStag3.0V8 on Friday 29th April 11:23
oyster said:
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
Not necessarily new cars. My 2004 Gen 1 mini convertible does not have space for a spare (even a spacesaver), but yes, if your car has space for one I would agree - get one. In addition, on all of mine where it will fit, I have replaced the spacesaver for a full size spare (having once received a flat 200 miles from home on a Sunday evening and having to drive at 50mph all the way home)
You swapped a space saver for a full size because just once, you took an hour longer to get home? Once.It's an obvious and not-too-expensive thing to do.
In the past I have two PCNs from Parking Eye overturned. The first, I stated, correctly, that I had exited and returned to the car, by foot, over a very low wall, so did not pass the signs. I offered a cheque for an amount that would be double the local council charge for parking, as my goodwill gesture. I stated that if they cashed it within a certain time, I would deem that they had accepted my ‘contributory payment’. I added that if they had not cashed it beyond that date, I would deem that they had waived any charge. They cashed the cheque. (This was before the Beavis court case)
Roll on five years later, same car park. My wife had gone for dental treatment, and had fainted. The dentist called me and called an ambulance. She was taken into the ambulance but discharge by them. I drove her home in my car and collected her car the next day. I appealed her PCN with the discharge note from the paramedics (on an NHS form,, so all times, dates, and conditions were there. They waived the PCN on that occasion.
I would appeal on the grounds of ‘force majeure’ or similar wording. (Not sure if the circumstances are severe enough for force majeure, so some other wording implying that you were unable to fulfil any (implied) contract by unexpected circumstances.
(Funnily enough, a neighbour came round today, and she has just had a PCN, from the same car park, and sought advice!)
Roll on five years later, same car park. My wife had gone for dental treatment, and had fainted. The dentist called me and called an ambulance. She was taken into the ambulance but discharge by them. I drove her home in my car and collected her car the next day. I appealed her PCN with the discharge note from the paramedics (on an NHS form,, so all times, dates, and conditions were there. They waived the PCN on that occasion.
I would appeal on the grounds of ‘force majeure’ or similar wording. (Not sure if the circumstances are severe enough for force majeure, so some other wording implying that you were unable to fulfil any (implied) contract by unexpected circumstances.
(Funnily enough, a neighbour came round today, and she has just had a PCN, from the same car park, and sought advice!)
Edited by Pica-Pica on Friday 29th April 13:24
M4cruiser said:
oyster said:
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
Not necessarily new cars. My 2004 Gen 1 mini convertible does not have space for a spare (even a spacesaver), but yes, if your car has space for one I would agree - get one. In addition, on all of mine where it will fit, I have replaced the spacesaver for a full size spare (having once received a flat 200 miles from home on a Sunday evening and having to drive at 50mph all the way home)
You swapped a space saver for a full size because just once, you took an hour longer to get home? Once.It's an obvious and not-too-expensive thing to do.
speedyguy said:
Hol said:
Bad form from the garagestaff member at the garage .IMHO.
I popped a driveshaft outside a local wicke# with a near identical signage at 7am and the female manager not only helped me push it out of the way, she added the Registration to that day’s exemption list
That's what should happen if they were sensible and remembered. I popped a driveshaft outside a local wicke# with a near identical signage at 7am and the female manager not only helped me push it out of the way, she added the Registration to that day’s exemption list
There is a exemption written into Motorway service area contracts to cover things like breakdowns but if no one cba telling someone so be it.
Just out of interest what difference did it make the manager being female?
Further up the thread.
Don't come up with the "don't drive tired" bullpoo excuse
, there's a minimum 2 hours free parking on signed MSA's and always an option to pay for extra before leaving site.Seen all 'the excuses' before
The same 'should also apply on signed trunk road service areas. These are in place generally as people took the proverbial.
I am surprised that it drew any concerns or comment?
Frankthered said:
I assume that this is a Parking Charge Notice, rather than a Penalty Charge Notice?
I would suggest you head over to the MoneySavingExpert forum as there is a massive thread on there covering what to do and who to talk to.
.
Yes and most of it is ususlly wrong, not sure why MSE get involved with motoring law and the like. A good example is when the speeding penalty guidelines were changed a few years ago, they proceeded to publish a load of incorrect utter b*ll*ks I would suggest you head over to the MoneySavingExpert forum as there is a massive thread on there covering what to do and who to talk to.
.
OP go to the Pepipoo site if you want some good info
Edited by martinbiz on Friday 29th April 14:25
Pica-Pica said:
Hol said:
I mentioned she was female, so people didn’t wrongly assume the manager was a car guy who was only helping for that reason. A woman typically wouldn’t car what the car was.
I am surprised that it drew any concerns or comment?
Hole.Digging.Stop.I am surprised that it drew any concerns or comment?
Attention seeking moron.
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