Help me come up the curve on V12 Vantage
Discussion
I have spent the last few days reading old threads on V12V/V12VS. I’ve always admired this car, but I’ve ended up with other cars for a variety of reasons at points of change. Anyway, perhaps it’s my age and a move away from race track refugee type cars, but I’m back looking at the V12.
I’m a fan of manual ‘boxes and coupes which simplifies things right away and seemingly leaves me with two primary options…
- an earlier V12V (ie non S) at, give or take, £80k
- a later V12VS at a price I can’t really identify, but anything from £130-210k it seems based on the current low volumes on sale today
I think I understand about the lightweight vs sports seats (lightweight ideally) and the wheels (again, lightweight preferred). That leaves a few questions where owner experience would be appreciated.
- are there significant variations in the V12VS cars? It looks like the are iterations of the entertainment/satnav (AMII vs AMIII) perhaps speccing of varying amounts of carbon, but what else am I missing?
- why is there a huge range on price of V12VS cars currently available, eg Hatfield one at 130k with an Aston warranty vs private sale at 170k with lots of options and some super low mileage cars at close to 200k. Is it just mileage and some power/exhaust options on the higher priced ones or are the later cars different in other regards?
- how different are the S and the non-S? The change in suspension seems to get commented upon as a major improvement and the 7 speed box appeals to the idiosyncratic, but as an occasional use car how material is the difference? The price differential at a minimum of 50k is quite racy.
If it helps give you a flavour, I’m a long term petrolhead, have owned or still own various things like Porsche GT3/RS variants, the odd Ferrari, a racing caterham and so on, so hard core and spiky performance is familiar to me.
Thanks in advance for any insight.
I’m a fan of manual ‘boxes and coupes which simplifies things right away and seemingly leaves me with two primary options…
- an earlier V12V (ie non S) at, give or take, £80k
- a later V12VS at a price I can’t really identify, but anything from £130-210k it seems based on the current low volumes on sale today
I think I understand about the lightweight vs sports seats (lightweight ideally) and the wheels (again, lightweight preferred). That leaves a few questions where owner experience would be appreciated.
- are there significant variations in the V12VS cars? It looks like the are iterations of the entertainment/satnav (AMII vs AMIII) perhaps speccing of varying amounts of carbon, but what else am I missing?
- why is there a huge range on price of V12VS cars currently available, eg Hatfield one at 130k with an Aston warranty vs private sale at 170k with lots of options and some super low mileage cars at close to 200k. Is it just mileage and some power/exhaust options on the higher priced ones or are the later cars different in other regards?
- how different are the S and the non-S? The change in suspension seems to get commented upon as a major improvement and the 7 speed box appeals to the idiosyncratic, but as an occasional use car how material is the difference? The price differential at a minimum of 50k is quite racy.
If it helps give you a flavour, I’m a long term petrolhead, have owned or still own various things like Porsche GT3/RS variants, the odd Ferrari, a racing caterham and so on, so hard core and spiky performance is familiar to me.
Thanks in advance for any insight.
I do not have personal experiences in Aston Martin, but I following also the story's to make my mind up lol.
btw, there is a nice manual V12 roadster for sale, a LHD , they seem to be very rare, but also more heavy...
anyways, the price they asking is lower then I would think, also low km, compared to other vantage v12 coupe were they ask almost the same money for.
In the long term it would be good buy I guess, but personally I'm not so a roadster fan, although I now have one myself well not a Aston, but the Z3 s65 (V8) but that one is not so heavy :-)
anyone driven such Vantage roadster V12 manual?
also @topic opener, I see you also owned a 430 Scud, I guess thats also more a race car then one you also have fun in at lower speeds? although I guess more fun at low speed then say a cayman GT4.
It seems that Aston Vantage V12 are fun at almost all speed, a event, so those sound good.
btw, there is a nice manual V12 roadster for sale, a LHD , they seem to be very rare, but also more heavy...
anyways, the price they asking is lower then I would think, also low km, compared to other vantage v12 coupe were they ask almost the same money for.
In the long term it would be good buy I guess, but personally I'm not so a roadster fan, although I now have one myself well not a Aston, but the Z3 s65 (V8) but that one is not so heavy :-)
anyone driven such Vantage roadster V12 manual?
also @topic opener, I see you also owned a 430 Scud, I guess thats also more a race car then one you also have fun in at lower speeds? although I guess more fun at low speed then say a cayman GT4.
It seems that Aston Vantage V12 are fun at almost all speed, a event, so those sound good.
jimmyslr said:
I think I understand about the lightweight vs sports seats (lightweight ideally) and the wheels (again, lightweight preferred).
IMO the seat thing is overblown on here and ends up being nothing more than personal preference. When you look at the VSMs, there are some differences in price due to spec, but the combination of great demand with so few cars has a big effect. People only seem to recently have cottoned on to the V12VSM and with ~100 UK coupes it’s a rare beast… much rarer than some of the limited edition/short runs from the likes of Ferrari/Lamborghini (same applies with Vanquish S although values of those don’t seem to have increased).
The way the market has been for these recently I don’t really think that buyers have had the luxury of being picky about spec as long as the cars have most of what they’re looking for and nothing they can’t live with. Dare say that the dealers etc can sort some carbon bits, exhausts tweaks if missing, but things like seat or colour changes are going to be expensive.
I bought mine in early 2020 for £115k. It’s now insured at an agreed £170k. I don’t much like the idea of cars as investments, so I drive mine as much as I can, but COVID kept the miles off and accidentally helped with its value. Like lots of owners, I know it’d be hard to replace (and selling leaves the challenge of what to do with the money in the current climate) so any sale would be a very reluctant one. Suspect a fair few owners are in the same position which is keeping supply constrained and pushing up the asking prices of those few that do come to market.
LooneyTunes said:
IMO the seat thing is overblown on here and ends up being nothing more than personal preference.
When you look at the VSMs, there are some differences in price due to spec, but the combination of great demand with so few cars has a big effect. People only seem to recently have cottoned on to the V12VSM and with ~100 UK coupes it’s a rare beast… much rarer than some of the limited edition/short runs from the likes of Ferrari/Lamborghini (same applies with Vanquish S although values of those don’t seem to have increased).
The way the market has been for these recently I don’t really think that buyers have had the luxury of being picky about spec as long as the cars have most of what they’re looking for and nothing they can’t live with. Dare say that the dealers etc can sort some carbon bits, exhausts tweaks if missing, but things like seat or colour changes are going to be expensive.
I bought mine in early 2020 for £115k. It’s now insured at an agreed £170k. I don’t much like the idea of cars as investments, so I drive mine as much as I can, but COVID kept the miles off and accidentally helped with its value. Like lots of owners, I know it’d be hard to replace (and selling leaves the challenge of what to do with the money in the current climate) so any sale would be a very reluctant one. Suspect a fair few owners are in the same position which is keeping supply constrained and pushing up the asking prices of those few that do come to market.
Thanks. This was largely my thinking around price of the S but I was keen to understand if the subtle tweaks made a more material difference than was obvious. It sounds like most regard them as an improvement, but objectively not one that doubles value. That doubling comes about from the supply/demand. Having said that, if value is retained then the extra purchase price is not necessarily a cost of ownership. When you look at the VSMs, there are some differences in price due to spec, but the combination of great demand with so few cars has a big effect. People only seem to recently have cottoned on to the V12VSM and with ~100 UK coupes it’s a rare beast… much rarer than some of the limited edition/short runs from the likes of Ferrari/Lamborghini (same applies with Vanquish S although values of those don’t seem to have increased).
The way the market has been for these recently I don’t really think that buyers have had the luxury of being picky about spec as long as the cars have most of what they’re looking for and nothing they can’t live with. Dare say that the dealers etc can sort some carbon bits, exhausts tweaks if missing, but things like seat or colour changes are going to be expensive.
I bought mine in early 2020 for £115k. It’s now insured at an agreed £170k. I don’t much like the idea of cars as investments, so I drive mine as much as I can, but COVID kept the miles off and accidentally helped with its value. Like lots of owners, I know it’d be hard to replace (and selling leaves the challenge of what to do with the money in the current climate) so any sale would be a very reluctant one. Suspect a fair few owners are in the same position which is keeping supply constrained and pushing up the asking prices of those few that do come to market.
So many cars, other assets too, have seen price inflation with what seem to be irrational second hand markets. I’ve been calling markets for cars, watches, wine and so on for ages but they keep on going. One day I’ll be right! One problem with these markets, even if you own one of these assets is that one can become sensitive to usage with for reasons of diminishing value or sensitivity to what you do with a more valuable asset. Someone mentioned my old 430 Scuderia below. I bought it before cars started increasing rapidly but as it’s value increased 50% I became more sensitive to using it and parking it - it also attracted plenty of attention which wasn’t really my thing. First world issues!
Any views on the comparative driving experience from those that have spent years with both would be great. For example, is the suspension of the original harsh to the extent you use it for a Sunday blast, but opt not to take it on a weekend away?
In case you haven’t seen it, here’s a good comparative review of the V12 vs S.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features-heroe...
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features-heroe...
Phil74891 said:
In case you haven’t seen it, here’s a good comparative review of the V12 vs S.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features-heroe...
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features-heroe...
How did you remember that article, Phil ? -
jimmyslr said:
I think I understand about the lightweight vs sports seats (lightweight ideally) and the wheels (again, lightweight preferred). That leaves a few questions where owner experience would be appreciated.
- are there significant variations in the V12VS cars? It looks like the are iterations of the entertainment/satnav (AMII vs AMIII) perhaps speccing of varying amounts of carbon, but what else am I missing?
- why is there a huge range on price of V12VS cars currently available, eg Hatfield one at 130k with an Aston warranty vs private sale at 170k with lots of options and some super low mileage cars at close to 200k. Is it just mileage and some power/exhaust options on the higher priced ones or are the later cars different in other regards?
- how different are the S and the non-S? The change in suspension seems to get commented upon as a major improvement and the 7 speed box appeals to the idiosyncratic, but as an occasional use car how material is the difference? The price differential at a minimum of 50k is quite racy.
V12VS car variations: once you get past manual vs auto, roadster vs coupe and seats and wheels, not really. The next biggest ones are waterfall centre console vs older style (changed late 2015), AMiIII vs AMiII (changed in 2016, but II can be upgraded to III at some cost). Then it’s options with the two rare ones being the performance pack (inlet manifolds, Ti exhaust and carbon fibre rear diffuser) and the B&O stereo system. Beyond that it is peripheral stuff, for example the bonnet vents were CF louvres as standard until late 2017 or early 2018 when they became plastic mesh with CF louvres as an option. There may be other little bits like that but I’m not chapter & verse on them. - are there significant variations in the V12VS cars? It looks like the are iterations of the entertainment/satnav (AMII vs AMIII) perhaps speccing of varying amounts of carbon, but what else am I missing?
- why is there a huge range on price of V12VS cars currently available, eg Hatfield one at 130k with an Aston warranty vs private sale at 170k with lots of options and some super low mileage cars at close to 200k. Is it just mileage and some power/exhaust options on the higher priced ones or are the later cars different in other regards?
- how different are the S and the non-S? The change in suspension seems to get commented upon as a major improvement and the 7 speed box appeals to the idiosyncratic, but as an occasional use car how material is the difference? The price differential at a minimum of 50k is quite racy.
Price range: good question. Some would be sellers see high prices and price aspirationally, esp in the current market? Super low mileages do seem to attract a big premium.
S vs non S: never driven the non S, but it’s a 10% power hike which ought to be noticeable and the suspension is supposed to be a lot more refined.
Don’t discount the SS3 gearbox. For many incl me it sits in the sweet spot of fast enough shifting plus driver engagement which makes it preferable to a manual and a dual clutch automated box. And check the gearstick positioning for your seating position. There are a few people who find that the gear stick sticks a little too far back on the tunnel for where their hand naturally falls.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 2nd May 10:27
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 2nd May 10:31
Dewi 2 said:
Phil74891 said:
In case you haven’t seen it, here’s a good comparative review of the V12 vs S.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features-heroe...
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-features-heroe...
How did you remember that article, Phil ? -
black car is vaguely familiar Dewi.I have had a V12V M and currently own a V12S M
I have had both seats, I prefer the sports but nothing wrong with the normal seats.
I much prefer the later dash.
The six speed gearbox is easier to live with than the seven but the seven does give the car character and you do get used to it.
I found the later car is a little better all round, perhaps the biggest difference is the sat nav/entertainment system which is much better in the later car.
I too have had lots of Porsche GT's and turbo's, I currently have a 964. I find the Aston has so much more character over the modern 911 which are getting too good.
I have had both seats, I prefer the sports but nothing wrong with the normal seats.
I much prefer the later dash.
The six speed gearbox is easier to live with than the seven but the seven does give the car character and you do get used to it.
I found the later car is a little better all round, perhaps the biggest difference is the sat nav/entertainment system which is much better in the later car.
I too have had lots of Porsche GT's and turbo's, I currently have a 964. I find the Aston has so much more character over the modern 911 which are getting too good.
In terms of the driving experience, no issues with the suspension, comfortable enough.
I don't use my car for longer trip due to the noise, it has the the titanium exhaust which give it a fabulous noise but it can be draining on the motorway.
I am lucky enough to have other cars that are more suited to motorways.
I don't use my car for longer trip due to the noise, it has the the titanium exhaust which give it a fabulous noise but it can be draining on the motorway.
I am lucky enough to have other cars that are more suited to motorways.
Very helpful Ken, thanks. Sounds like I probably need to go for a couple of test drives as and when the right cars come along and see what difference the marginal points of evolution feel like. The positioning of the gear stick is a good point that I’ll check also.
Are there any aftermarket solutions for the stereo/satnav? In the Porsche world for example there are some almost oem solutions that provide a modern setup in a 10 year old car and are also reversible if the next owner desires originality.
Are there any aftermarket solutions for the stereo/satnav? In the Porsche world for example there are some almost oem solutions that provide a modern setup in a 10 year old car and are also reversible if the next owner desires originality.
Hi, sorry im a bit late in responding.
Ok assuming you are sticking to manuals then you have only two choices and early original 6spd V12V which will have the Ami I infotainment and 510bhp, or one of the handful of much rarer 7spd dogleg V12VS which will have AMi III as the 7spd was introduced at the same time as AMi III. It is not possible to find an AMI II car in a manual.
Yes theres a big differnce between the early cars and the final edition cars. Thats not to say the original car is bad, it isnt, its epic in its own way but by 2017 when the V12VS manual came out pretty mich everything had been tweaked and improved either slightly or conaiderably. Engine, suspension, dash, infotainment - the list is endless. Sure the car isnt twice the car as it is twice the price but the final evo cars are more than the sum of their patts for sure. If you want a keeper and can afford it - this is the way to go.
The 7spd is a pure delight to use but if your switching back and forther between conventional layout manuals and a dogleg then it takes several hours to get your head back into gear so to speak. Thats why many journos dont reflect wel on the 7spd dogleg as they sinply havnt had the right anount of time to aclimatise. Once you do - its a delight.
The variation in price of the V12VSM is down to many things, mileage, rarity of spec / combo and things like the powerkit and aerokit which had rrp of around £18k each on their own. Not that either really adds this much but…. When new you could easily have got a V12VSM on the road new for not much over £145k or you coould easily have speny over £200k on one too. You just need to do your research on whats what and buy what you want having done so.
Best of luck. Any specific questions on spec do ask. Several of us know the subject matter inside out
Ok assuming you are sticking to manuals then you have only two choices and early original 6spd V12V which will have the Ami I infotainment and 510bhp, or one of the handful of much rarer 7spd dogleg V12VS which will have AMi III as the 7spd was introduced at the same time as AMi III. It is not possible to find an AMI II car in a manual.
Yes theres a big differnce between the early cars and the final edition cars. Thats not to say the original car is bad, it isnt, its epic in its own way but by 2017 when the V12VS manual came out pretty mich everything had been tweaked and improved either slightly or conaiderably. Engine, suspension, dash, infotainment - the list is endless. Sure the car isnt twice the car as it is twice the price but the final evo cars are more than the sum of their patts for sure. If you want a keeper and can afford it - this is the way to go.
The 7spd is a pure delight to use but if your switching back and forther between conventional layout manuals and a dogleg then it takes several hours to get your head back into gear so to speak. Thats why many journos dont reflect wel on the 7spd dogleg as they sinply havnt had the right anount of time to aclimatise. Once you do - its a delight.
The variation in price of the V12VSM is down to many things, mileage, rarity of spec / combo and things like the powerkit and aerokit which had rrp of around £18k each on their own. Not that either really adds this much but…. When new you could easily have got a V12VSM on the road new for not much over £145k or you coould easily have speny over £200k on one too. You just need to do your research on whats what and buy what you want having done so.
Best of luck. Any specific questions on spec do ask. Several of us know the subject matter inside out
My old car is now up with Roy Humphrey (sold not SOR). March 2018 registered, one of the last and totally mint with massive spec. Strong money but I'd like to see it in a good home.
https://www.royhumphreyprestigecars.co.uk/vehicle/...
https://www.royhumphreyprestigecars.co.uk/vehicle/...
GT3ZZZ said:
My old car is now up with Roy Humphrey (sold not SOR). March 2018 registered, one of the last and totally mint with massive spec. Strong money but I'd like to see it in a good home.
https://www.royhumphreyprestigecars.co.uk/vehicle/...
oooh, nice one https://www.royhumphreyprestigecars.co.uk/vehicle/...
GT3ZZZ said:
My old car is now up with Roy Humphrey (sold not SOR). March 2018 registered, one of the last and totally mint with massive spec. Strong money but I'd like to see it in a good home.
https://www.royhumphreyprestigecars.co.uk/vehicle/...
Looks a great car and very high spec as you say. It makes a couple of the other cars look pricey!https://www.royhumphreyprestigecars.co.uk/vehicle/...
It won’t be the one for me as, for this car, I’m after the more low key, classical look, plus I’d like to avoid black. I speak as someone with three black cars, two of which already have wings, so I’ve got that box well and truly ticked!
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