Rising energy prices (etc.) and restoration costs?
Discussion
Three years ago I got an estimate for some restoration work on my old E36 3 Series. It came back at £7,500-£8,500. I couldn't afford it at the time so I put it on hold. Then covid happened.
I'm wanting to look at this again as my budget has improved, however, will the soaring cost of energy have pushed up the cost of restoring a car? I'm thinking things like welding will cost more. Also, how much may those estimates have grown anyway in three years?
Obviously I'll get in touch with the restorer to revisit the project but I was wondering what the wider consensus is.
I'm wanting to look at this again as my budget has improved, however, will the soaring cost of energy have pushed up the cost of restoring a car? I'm thinking things like welding will cost more. Also, how much may those estimates have grown anyway in three years?
Obviously I'll get in touch with the restorer to revisit the project but I was wondering what the wider consensus is.
Edited by MitchT on Monday 2nd May 10:54
Difficult to say really.
When I had the bodywork restored on my Scirocco, the garage proprietor gave me a ball park figure of what he thought the price maybe, with an added caveat that they alway escalate!
As it’s difficult to provide a detailed estimate on a basic look around. You only have to see some of the work that Tim and Fuzz take on to realise - the strip down always reveals more.
Needless to say my Scirocco bodywork restoration cost THREE times the original ball park figure…
I nearly had a breakdown when I received the bill, all of the time sheets photocopied from all the hours spent on the car by the employees. I’d been updated throughout by regular updates (photos) of what was being uncovered.
There was no doubting the time and skill that had gone into the work, and absolutely no doubt of the integrity of the business.
Very important.
But that’s the issue, you have to have someone to carry out this work that you have absolute trust in, and can provide examples of previous.
That is how I decided on whom I commissioned.
It’s the hourly rate that is so expensive now, and ironically that maybe a knock on effect by rising prices everywhere, not so much linked directly to energy prices associated with restoration.
A very good mate of mine is an extremely talented paint sprayer / panel beater, I’d say almost gifted. He usually does dictate what he gets paid. It’s not mega money, but he does ok and he could do a whole lot better if he could be arsed - but he just isn’t that way inclined.
A few years ago, the same mate was made redundant from a main Ford dealership, basically the body shop was making a loss. We all know modern cars are written-off so easily now. They are just not cost effective to repair, cars are effectively becoming the new ‘white goods’ like washing machines.
My mate usually now works on classic cars only, for how long remains to be seen, as long as there is demand I guess?
But you can be certain, any business in this line of work will have employees (if they are superb in their craft) knowing their self-worth - in a market and occupation which is dwindling .
I hope that helps with your question?
Find a business that you totally trust.
Accept it is going to cost more than you would ideally like.
Make absolutely sure, that you are totally wanting to go forward with this.
PS. Don’t ask me the final cost on my Scirocco restoration. It’s something that I’ve buried deep.
.
When I had the bodywork restored on my Scirocco, the garage proprietor gave me a ball park figure of what he thought the price maybe, with an added caveat that they alway escalate!
As it’s difficult to provide a detailed estimate on a basic look around. You only have to see some of the work that Tim and Fuzz take on to realise - the strip down always reveals more.
Needless to say my Scirocco bodywork restoration cost THREE times the original ball park figure…
I nearly had a breakdown when I received the bill, all of the time sheets photocopied from all the hours spent on the car by the employees. I’d been updated throughout by regular updates (photos) of what was being uncovered.
There was no doubting the time and skill that had gone into the work, and absolutely no doubt of the integrity of the business.
Very important.
But that’s the issue, you have to have someone to carry out this work that you have absolute trust in, and can provide examples of previous.
That is how I decided on whom I commissioned.
It’s the hourly rate that is so expensive now, and ironically that maybe a knock on effect by rising prices everywhere, not so much linked directly to energy prices associated with restoration.
A very good mate of mine is an extremely talented paint sprayer / panel beater, I’d say almost gifted. He usually does dictate what he gets paid. It’s not mega money, but he does ok and he could do a whole lot better if he could be arsed - but he just isn’t that way inclined.
A few years ago, the same mate was made redundant from a main Ford dealership, basically the body shop was making a loss. We all know modern cars are written-off so easily now. They are just not cost effective to repair, cars are effectively becoming the new ‘white goods’ like washing machines.
My mate usually now works on classic cars only, for how long remains to be seen, as long as there is demand I guess?
But you can be certain, any business in this line of work will have employees (if they are superb in their craft) knowing their self-worth - in a market and occupation which is dwindling .
I hope that helps with your question?
Find a business that you totally trust.
Accept it is going to cost more than you would ideally like.
Make absolutely sure, that you are totally wanting to go forward with this.
PS. Don’t ask me the final cost on my Scirocco restoration. It’s something that I’ve buried deep.
.
Thanks. I have a load of different options on the radar and have pretty much settled on one that is a combination of being one of the best and geographically convenient. I appreciate that the cost can escalate, but the main purpose of my question was to establish if the dramatic increase in energy prices had impacted restoration costs in addition to the usual reasons, not least because businesses don't benefit from an energy price cap. If something I was previously quoted £8k for would now be quoted at £10k, then fine, but if it's going to be £15k then it's a non starter.
My car war was literally as rotten as a Pear, and I knew it. Before it went away, but I was objective.
It was particularly bad around the rear axle mounting points which generally afflicts VW’ s of this era. It needed serious structural remedy, carried out by professionals.
I was watching Harry last night round out Ian Tyyrells workshop.
Poor Harry looked bloody uncomfortable, he knows this gearbox rebuild is going to take his bloody eyes out.
But he took it to someone who knows their stuff. And he trusts, it’s on YouTube after all.
Massively important.
I’d say if your car is just superficial bodywork, nothing structural - you’ll be ok.
It won’t be cheap, but you’ll be rewarded in the long-term.
It was particularly bad around the rear axle mounting points which generally afflicts VW’ s of this era. It needed serious structural remedy, carried out by professionals.
I was watching Harry last night round out Ian Tyyrells workshop.
Poor Harry looked bloody uncomfortable, he knows this gearbox rebuild is going to take his bloody eyes out.
But he took it to someone who knows their stuff. And he trusts, it’s on YouTube after all.
Massively important.
I’d say if your car is just superficial bodywork, nothing structural - you’ll be ok.
It won’t be cheap, but you’ll be rewarded in the long-term.
Jim H said:
I was watching Harry last night round out Ian Tyyrells workshop.
Poor Harry looked bloody uncomfortable, he knows this gearbox rebuild is going to take his bloody eyes out.
But he took it to someone who knows their stuff. And he trusts, it’s on YouTube after all.
I was having fun trying to guess, was thinking 15-20K, as he's now talking about pulling the heads off the motor.Poor Harry looked bloody uncomfortable, he knows this gearbox rebuild is going to take his bloody eyes out.
But he took it to someone who knows their stuff. And he trusts, it’s on YouTube after all.
I wasn't far off with the Espada engine rebuild, guessed 30K, think it was 32 ?
Apparently Countach prices are starting to soar so it will be an investment.
To try and answer the original question I'm not sure if the cost of energy will have a large effect, it can only be a small part of the overall cost?
I do know that material costs are going up for metal etc. (Only noticing as a home restorer buying small amount of metal / gas / welding supplies etc.)
I do know that material costs are going up for metal etc. (Only noticing as a home restorer buying small amount of metal / gas / welding supplies etc.)
MitchT,
Have a chat to Paul at Garage 21 in Denholme. https://garage21.uk/
He's a big BMW fan and a superb welder. I even let him lose on my Alfa!
Have a chat to Paul at Garage 21 in Denholme. https://garage21.uk/
He's a big BMW fan and a superb welder. I even let him lose on my Alfa!
Jim H said:
Poor Harry looked bloody uncomfortable, he knows this gearbox rebuild is going to take his bloody eyes out.
But he took it to someone who knows their stuff. And he trusts, it’s on YouTube after all.
Massively important.
I’d say if your car is just superficial bodywork, nothing structural - you’ll be ok.
It won’t be cheap, but you’ll be rewarded in the long-term.
As you say, given how long he's owned the car and how many times it's now worth what he paid for it, I shouldn't think he'll lose too much sleep.But he took it to someone who knows their stuff. And he trusts, it’s on YouTube after all.
Massively important.
I’d say if your car is just superficial bodywork, nothing structural - you’ll be ok.
It won’t be cheap, but you’ll be rewarded in the long-term.
I thought the prices were fairly reasonable for what was the pinnacle of Lamborghini in its day, but then I did spend 10s of £'000s restoring an Austin A35...
austin said:
To try and answer the original question I'm not sure if the cost of energy will have a large effect, it can only be a small part of the overall cost?
I'd have said the opposite and energy prices, either directly or indirectly being one of a restoration shop's biggest costs. You've got the direct costs of heating, power, and lighting - and given you're normally talking about a 'shed' with lots of high current draw machines, especially with a paint booth that's a lot of each. Then you have the indirect costs, some from upstream (not much a restoration shop doesn't use that won't be burning lots of energy and so suppliers having to pass those increases down) and also downstream (every employee is going to be facing increased energy costs at home and if you don't give the good ones pay increases they'll up sticks to someone who will).I'd expect that to come through more at the 'couple of thousand' rather than '1.5x' end of the scale though.
You've got inflation to contend with as well as probably shortages of consumables driving prices up.
Worst of all though is the gas to heat the workshop and fire the ovens. It is a cost which has literally multiplied since the autumn. Dad's workshop had three ovens and he was doing £10k per month on gas in December / January and it only would've gone up since then.
Worst of all though is the gas to heat the workshop and fire the ovens. It is a cost which has literally multiplied since the autumn. Dad's workshop had three ovens and he was doing £10k per month on gas in December / January and it only would've gone up since then.
Turbobanana said:
I suspect people will jump on the bandwagon and start increasing prices because customers are expecting that to happen, with all that's going on, even it it doesn't.
How many examples of poor customer service / rising costs are blamed on COVID?
Have you seen commodity and gas prices? How many examples of poor customer service / rising costs are blamed on COVID?
I think signs of this are becoming apparent.
Certainly on the sales side, things seem to have slowed markedly as people concentrate on essentials.
Some of the specialist vendors I look at from time to time have had cars hanging around for many weeks. That may be in part due to optimistic pricing but it is unusual at this time of year.
Restoration work is a different area obviously, with more gradual capital outlay, but falling demand and rising costs make for a tough environment, whatever side of the business you are in.
Certainly on the sales side, things seem to have slowed markedly as people concentrate on essentials.
Some of the specialist vendors I look at from time to time have had cars hanging around for many weeks. That may be in part due to optimistic pricing but it is unusual at this time of year.
Restoration work is a different area obviously, with more gradual capital outlay, but falling demand and rising costs make for a tough environment, whatever side of the business you are in.
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