Have you had a successful patent?
Discussion
I'm a serial (failed) inventor. I must be the bane of the Patents Office as I've submitted quite a few patent applications. Usually they fail because my ideas are already patented.
Couple of motoring related examples (as this is PH) from my long list of failures:
1 - Kerb stones with outer surfaces impregnated with 1% micro glass beads to act like cats eyes so the kerbs (and those stupid traffic calming kerbs in the road) light up at night as you drive along - Already patented by someone.
2 - Car windscreens to have LCD based sun visors that can be adjusted in terms of how far down the screen it comes and how dark it is - Already patented by Chrysler.
Has anyone here successfully patented something at a personal (rather than company) level and how did you monetise it?
Couple of motoring related examples (as this is PH) from my long list of failures:
1 - Kerb stones with outer surfaces impregnated with 1% micro glass beads to act like cats eyes so the kerbs (and those stupid traffic calming kerbs in the road) light up at night as you drive along - Already patented by someone.
2 - Car windscreens to have LCD based sun visors that can be adjusted in terms of how far down the screen it comes and how dark it is - Already patented by Chrysler.
Has anyone here successfully patented something at a personal (rather than company) level and how did you monetise it?
Interesting ideas, shame they had already been done. The automotive technical field is quite crowded in terms of the number of previous patents.
These days, there are fewer 'blue sky' ideas, so most successful applications tend to be the ones which claim improvements to known technologies, e.g., application claims the glass bead shape/size/material or how to get them to bind with the kerb stone cement. There is also an element of luck, because the patent office only conducts a brief search. Often, the biggest factor is whether it was self-represented.
These days, there are fewer 'blue sky' ideas, so most successful applications tend to be the ones which claim improvements to known technologies, e.g., application claims the glass bead shape/size/material or how to get them to bind with the kerb stone cement. There is also an element of luck, because the patent office only conducts a brief search. Often, the biggest factor is whether it was self-represented.
Thanks for your comments. I agree that patent success via evolution is more likely than revolution so your comments are good.
Regarding your last sentence do you mean that a private inventor is likely to get short thrift from the patent office compared to a company with a patent attorney?
Tia.
It’d be nice to hear from someone here who has been successful.
Regarding your last sentence do you mean that a private inventor is likely to get short thrift from the patent office compared to a company with a patent attorney?
Tia.
It’d be nice to hear from someone here who has been successful.
You can go to patent firms for example rather than being a big company with internal lawyers https://www.marks-clerk.com/
Can't imagine it being a cheap option...
Can't imagine it being a cheap option...
Worked with a client some years back - husband and wife duo who had developed a new type of beach towel - had drop down pockets for lotion, phone, etc and also doubled as a robe type thing which they successfully patented.
They initially signed an exclusive deal with one of the cruise companies, selling them via their on-ship stores and were also provided to premium passengers as part of the cabin pack. After that deal ended, they starting selling via Amazon, high-street retailers and distributors.
They also went on Dragons Den but didn't get any funding.
They initially signed an exclusive deal with one of the cruise companies, selling them via their on-ship stores and were also provided to premium passengers as part of the cabin pack. After that deal ended, they starting selling via Amazon, high-street retailers and distributors.
They also went on Dragons Den but didn't get any funding.
StevieBee said:
Worked with a client some years back - husband and wife duo who had developed a new type of beach towel - had drop down pockets for lotion, phone, etc and also doubled as a robe type thing which they successfully patented.
They initially signed an exclusive deal with one of the cruise companies, selling them via their on-ship stores and were also provided to premium passengers as part of the cabin pack. After that deal ended, they starting selling via Amazon, high-street retailers and distributors.
They also went on Dragons Den but didn't get any funding.
Any links to the product. I want one.They initially signed an exclusive deal with one of the cruise companies, selling them via their on-ship stores and were also provided to premium passengers as part of the cabin pack. After that deal ended, they starting selling via Amazon, high-street retailers and distributors.
They also went on Dragons Den but didn't get any funding.
Pistom said:
StevieBee said:
Worked with a client some years back - husband and wife duo who had developed a new type of beach towel - had drop down pockets for lotion, phone, etc and also doubled as a robe type thing which they successfully patented.
They initially signed an exclusive deal with one of the cruise companies, selling them via their on-ship stores and were also provided to premium passengers as part of the cabin pack. After that deal ended, they starting selling via Amazon, high-street retailers and distributors.
They also went on Dragons Den but didn't get any funding.
Any links to the product. I want one.They initially signed an exclusive deal with one of the cruise companies, selling them via their on-ship stores and were also provided to premium passengers as part of the cabin pack. After that deal ended, they starting selling via Amazon, high-street retailers and distributors.
They also went on Dragons Den but didn't get any funding.
I've got my first patent working it's way through the IPO now.
For research I first conducted my own, looking for the product on line to find out if it was available commercially then used googles patent search function then employed a Firm of Patent Attorneys (paid for by a grant) then finally via the IPO as part of my application (again grant funded).
So far all searches are clear & no IPO objections so I expect the patent to grant early next year. Grrbang, your input here might be valuable to temper my expectations!
However, it's the commercialisation I am finding difficult to achieve despite there being a clear place in the market & demand for my product.
OP if you want to email me I'd be happy to share my experiences with you.
For research I first conducted my own, looking for the product on line to find out if it was available commercially then used googles patent search function then employed a Firm of Patent Attorneys (paid for by a grant) then finally via the IPO as part of my application (again grant funded).
So far all searches are clear & no IPO objections so I expect the patent to grant early next year. Grrbang, your input here might be valuable to temper my expectations!
However, it's the commercialisation I am finding difficult to achieve despite there being a clear place in the market & demand for my product.
OP if you want to email me I'd be happy to share my experiences with you.
My father has the patent for security code radios. (yeah he invented them, I still remember asking him what the hell the initial prototype was as a kid) He wasn't prepared to take a massive electronics giant to court when they mass produced them and put them in effectively every car in the 90's as to do so would have risked everything we had.
He still has the patent though.
He still has the patent though.
pete_esp said:
I've got my first patent working it's way through the IPO now.
For research I first conducted my own, looking for the product on line to find out if it was available commercially then used googles patent search function then employed a Firm of Patent Attorneys (paid for by a grant) then finally via the IPO as part of my application (again grant funded).
So far all searches are clear & no IPO objections so I expect the patent to grant early next year. Grrbang, your input here might be valuable to temper my expectations!
However, it's the commercialisation I am finding difficult to achieve despite there being a clear place in the market & demand for my product.
OP if you want to email me I'd be happy to share my experiences with you.
Hi thanks for the info. For research I first conducted my own, looking for the product on line to find out if it was available commercially then used googles patent search function then employed a Firm of Patent Attorneys (paid for by a grant) then finally via the IPO as part of my application (again grant funded).
So far all searches are clear & no IPO objections so I expect the patent to grant early next year. Grrbang, your input here might be valuable to temper my expectations!
However, it's the commercialisation I am finding difficult to achieve despite there being a clear place in the market & demand for my product.
OP if you want to email me I'd be happy to share my experiences with you.
What grants did you get and from whom if you don’t mind me asking?
I think with some of my ideas I accept the first refusal from the IPO whereas what I should do is tweak the claims to be less wide and more specific to something unique. I’ve never done this before due to lack of time and being too greedy to own the whole idea instead of an evolution in an idea (as someone above said).
StevieBee said:
Worked with a client some years back - husband and wife duo who had developed a new type of beach towel - had drop down pockets for lotion, phone, etc and also doubled as a robe type thing which they successfully patented.
They initially signed an exclusive deal with one of the cruise companies, selling them via their on-ship stores and were also provided to premium passengers as part of the cabin pack. After that deal ended, they starting selling via Amazon, high-street retailers and distributors.
They also went on Dragons Den but didn't get any funding.
I remember them on dragons den. It didn’t light my fire I must say. But we’ll done them getting it to where they have. They initially signed an exclusive deal with one of the cruise companies, selling them via their on-ship stores and were also provided to premium passengers as part of the cabin pack. After that deal ended, they starting selling via Amazon, high-street retailers and distributors.
They also went on Dragons Den but didn't get any funding.
MikeStroud said:
pete_esp said:
I've got my first patent working it's way through the IPO now.
For research I first conducted my own, looking for the product on line to find out if it was available commercially then used googles patent search function then employed a Firm of Patent Attorneys (paid for by a grant) then finally via the IPO as part of my application (again grant funded).
So far all searches are clear & no IPO objections so I expect the patent to grant early next year. Grrbang, your input here might be valuable to temper my expectations!
However, it's the commercialisation I am finding difficult to achieve despite there being a clear place in the market & demand for my product.
OP if you want to email me I'd be happy to share my experiences with you.
Hi thanks for the info. For research I first conducted my own, looking for the product on line to find out if it was available commercially then used googles patent search function then employed a Firm of Patent Attorneys (paid for by a grant) then finally via the IPO as part of my application (again grant funded).
So far all searches are clear & no IPO objections so I expect the patent to grant early next year. Grrbang, your input here might be valuable to temper my expectations!
However, it's the commercialisation I am finding difficult to achieve despite there being a clear place in the market & demand for my product.
OP if you want to email me I'd be happy to share my experiences with you.
What grants did you get and from whom if you don’t mind me asking?
I think with some of my ideas I accept the first refusal from the IPO whereas what I should do is tweak the claims to be less wide and more specific to something unique. I’ve never done this before due to lack of time and being too greedy to own the whole idea instead of an evolution in an idea (as someone above said).
First grant was the IP Audit, I got this through Scottish Enterprise so I would guess it would be your local business support enterprise you would need to approach, i set up a ltd company to run my invention through which makes life easier. It was an IP attorney that told me about that grant.
If you get the IP Audit grant you then qualify for the IP Access grant which helps you with the costs of implementing the recommendations in the IP Audit.
pete_esp said:
I don't mind at all, happy to help
First grant was the IP Audit, I got this through Scottish Enterprise so I would guess it would be your local business support enterprise you would need to approach, i set up a ltd company to run my invention through which makes life easier. It was an IP attorney that told me about that grant.
If you get the IP Audit grant you then qualify for the IP Access grant which helps you with the costs of implementing the recommendations in the IP Audit.
Very helpful thanks a lot. First grant was the IP Audit, I got this through Scottish Enterprise so I would guess it would be your local business support enterprise you would need to approach, i set up a ltd company to run my invention through which makes life easier. It was an IP attorney that told me about that grant.
If you get the IP Audit grant you then qualify for the IP Access grant which helps you with the costs of implementing the recommendations in the IP Audit.
MikeStroud said:
Regarding your last sentence do you mean that a private inventor is likely to get short thrift from the patent office compared to a company with a patent attorney?
This is certainly a factor. I think the two main factors are firstly the way the application was drafted, and secondly the pessimistic or confusing tone of initial patent search/examination reports. In line with what you said, unfortunately the search report and first examination report will often cast a negative light on the application. Some examiners will even state that their objections are of such a fundamental nature that they see no possibility of overcoming them. At this point, many private applicants would give up.
However, us patent attorneys have learnt to see the initial 'gatekeeper' tone as white noise - what matters is whether they are correct or incorrect based on case law and their own examination guidelines. All too often, the initial objections are incorrect. Usually, they are incorrect because a) they allege that the claims lack novelty when they are novel, b) their judgment of whether the invention was obvious at the time it was filed is clouded by hindsight knowledge of what the invention is, or c) they've not read the application or search documents properly and just want us to make the first move.
However, a more significant reason for the failure of most self-drafted, self-represented applications is because the applications are not written in a manner that follows decades of case law/guidelines on clarity/interpretation. Once the application is filed, the language cannot be fixed, so the pessimistic tone may in fact be justified in the case of self-drafted applications. I do acknowledge that some self-drafted applications are actually clear enough, but unfortunately they are often easy for a competitor to design around. So, if a patent attorney writes "urger"/"biaser" instead of "coil spring", remember the purpose is to help and not to confuse the inventors!
Unfortunately this makes the cost of patent applications quite front-loaded, but generally any extra funds spent on drafting will be made back in examination due to the issues being simpler to overcome.
pete_esp said:
So far all searches are clear & no IPO objections so I expect the patent to grant early next year. Grrbang, your input here might be valuable to temper my expectations!
Sounds good! If the UKIPO is happy, and you don't have any foreign co-pending foreign applications for them to sanity check, then it's rare to see them change their mind.In 2007 we got 2 patents on a particular idea and starting making it. We did a lot of the leg work ourselves to keep costs down but still not cheap but given the alleged benefits of these patents well worth it.
Now what actually transpired was that 3 large European companies based on our patents, infringed them. We at patent stage were told by the Patent Attorney about all the wonderful and enriching remedies that would fall at out feet if such breaches occurred.
Upon these breaches, we run off to our Patent Attorney who quickly tells us he is "non contentious" and we arrange to see his colleague who again spouts the same tough talk.
We write a letter before action and they comeback with some un related patent from 1930's America and say that elements of it mean ours is not unique or novel and it's our move.
By this stage the Credit crunch was hitting and I didn't want to risk £100K + against 2 very large companies.
These day's no doubt backing is available for litigation but I couldn't see it in 2008.
I now see Patent Attorneys as boffins who like talking to inventors and they have a very simplistic view of how the law works. Of course there are remedies but commerciality also needs to be considered.
Now what actually transpired was that 3 large European companies based on our patents, infringed them. We at patent stage were told by the Patent Attorney about all the wonderful and enriching remedies that would fall at out feet if such breaches occurred.
Upon these breaches, we run off to our Patent Attorney who quickly tells us he is "non contentious" and we arrange to see his colleague who again spouts the same tough talk.
We write a letter before action and they comeback with some un related patent from 1930's America and say that elements of it mean ours is not unique or novel and it's our move.
By this stage the Credit crunch was hitting and I didn't want to risk £100K + against 2 very large companies.
These day's no doubt backing is available for litigation but I couldn't see it in 2008.
I now see Patent Attorneys as boffins who like talking to inventors and they have a very simplistic view of how the law works. Of course there are remedies but commerciality also needs to be considered.
Grrbang said:
Sounds good! If the UKIPO is happy, and you don't have any foreign co-pending foreign applications for them to sanity check, then it's rare to see them change their mind.
Thanks!I am about to launch the PCT process, (just got the funding cleared through winning a funding competition) is that what you are referring to in yuor Foreign application statements?
DaveA8 said:
In 2007 we got 2 patents on a particular idea and starting making it. We did a lot of the leg work ourselves to keep costs down but still not cheap but given the alleged benefits of these patents well worth it.
Now what actually transpired was that 3 large European companies based on our patents, infringed them. We at patent stage were told by the Patent Attorney about all the wonderful and enriching remedies that would fall at out feet if such breaches occurred.
Upon these breaches, we run off to our Patent Attorney who quickly tells us he is "non contentious" and we arrange to see his colleague who again spouts the same tough talk.
We write a letter before action and they comeback with some un related patent from 1930's America and say that elements of it mean ours is not unique or novel and it's our move.
By this stage the Credit crunch was hitting and I didn't want to risk £100K + against 2 very large companies.
These day's no doubt backing is available for litigation but I couldn't see it in 2008.
I now see Patent Attorneys as boffins who like talking to inventors and they have a very simplistic view of how the law works. Of course there are remedies but commerciality also needs to be considered.
What happened? did you continue to make youe idea?Now what actually transpired was that 3 large European companies based on our patents, infringed them. We at patent stage were told by the Patent Attorney about all the wonderful and enriching remedies that would fall at out feet if such breaches occurred.
Upon these breaches, we run off to our Patent Attorney who quickly tells us he is "non contentious" and we arrange to see his colleague who again spouts the same tough talk.
We write a letter before action and they comeback with some un related patent from 1930's America and say that elements of it mean ours is not unique or novel and it's our move.
By this stage the Credit crunch was hitting and I didn't want to risk £100K + against 2 very large companies.
These day's no doubt backing is available for litigation but I couldn't see it in 2008.
I now see Patent Attorneys as boffins who like talking to inventors and they have a very simplistic view of how the law works. Of course there are remedies but commerciality also needs to be considered.
I have a number of mitigations against this in my case:
1. IP Insurance. It's costing me a bomb and I hope I don't need it but if I do I want to be able to at least put the infringer on the back foot by coming out swinging.
2. Make infringement claims my licensee's problem.
3. With all of the above I could even sell part of my company to an investor with deeper pockets than mine to help fund a legal case. I've taken steps to make this option as attractive as possible should it come to it.
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