MOT exemption and modified cars

[skeeterm5]

Hi all,

I am toying with the idea of buying another classic and fancy a Mk1 or Mk2 Escort.

One thing baffling me is that almost all of those I am looking at state that they are MOT exempt. However almost all of those I am looking at are RS or Mexico recreations so have different engines and running gear to the original cars.

I thought this would type of thing would classify as a major modification and hence mean the car does need an MOT. Am I misreading the rules or are people just generally ignoring it?

Thanks

[sixor8]

As I understand it, if the modifications are 'period,' then it is not considered a major change. For example, you buy a 1.3 Mk2 Escort and put a 2.0 litre engine in it. These were available, so would be accepted. If you start changing axles, say from a Jag, or putting in a V6 or V8, then it becomes a bit like the rules for a kit car. I've seen a few cars at classic auctions that would cause me to hesitate. H+H recently sold a Mini Clubman 1275 GT 'evocation,' i.e. a copy. DVLA still had it recorded as having a 998cc engine. Naughty.


Adrian Flux did a guide a few years ago, link below, there is no hard and fast rule. I like what some people do in the 'restomod' scene but you may have to MoT it every year. Still be free VED if over 40 of course. :

https://www.adrianflux.co.uk/blog/2017/09/cars-bec...

The DVLA page has links and guidance too:

https://www.gov.uk/historic-vehicles

Edited by sixor8 on Saturday 7th May 14:03

[ARHarh]

But more importantly the only check made as to whether the car is modified or not, is that the box on the form is ticked. So even if your car does not meet the unmodified classification, you can easily say it does.

[4rephill]

ARHarh said:

But more importantly the only check made as to whether the car is modified or not, is that the box on the form is ticked. So even if your car does not meet the unmodified classification, you can easily say it does.

In the same way, you don't need to declare modifications on your insurance either, they very rarely check the vehicle in question.

Of course, should anything unfortunate happen to your vehicle, then the s**t could hit the fan - But what are the chances of that happening?

[mgtony]

If the engine/parts used were available or over 30 years old, then most will just claim that the mods were that old which still make it MOT exempt.

[skeeterm5]

Thanks all.

So clear as mud then? 😊

[healeyneil]

Just take it for a MOT anyway. Happy to let my trusted garage check mine over once a year

[300bhp/ton]

skeeterm5 said:

Thanks all.

So clear as mud then? ??

Not really. You can't expect there to be a detailed list of every car make and model ever produced, cross referenced with every single modification possible and specific parts.

There is plenty of good info on the .gov site to what is deemed acceptable and not. But ultimately it is a self declaration. So you need to make your own call on.

Remember MoT exemption is only exemption from the "testing" part. In all other ways it needs to be as safe and road legal as before or if you had it tested.

[skeeterm5]

I get that, but I am not considering if my own car is exempt or not, per my original post.

My point being more about sellers and the wide spread inconsistency as to how they decide that their cars are exempt even following fairly major reconstruction, new engines etc.

As ever caveat emptor seems to be the order of the day.

Edited by skeeterm5 on Sunday 8th May 17:25

[BS9ider]

This is something that concerned me also. After reading and reading the criteria a couple of times, I came to the conclusion that if engine displacement altered from original then no long exempt.

[300bhp/ton]

skeeterm5 said:

I get that, but I am not considering if my own car is exempt or not, per my original post.

My point being more about sellers and the wide spread inconsistency as to how they decide that their cars are exempt even following fairly major reconstruction, new engines etc.

As ever caveat emptor seems to be the order of the day.

Edited by skeeterm5 on Sunday 8th May 17:25

You need to make the declaration each year. Ultimately it doesn’t really matter what someone else does. It only matters what you do. If you buy a car declared historic and MoT exempt. It would be your responsibility to MoT it if you disagreed.

If it was clearly a breach then you could make a civil case against the seller for miss leading information or false advertising I’d guess. It would however be down to the DVLA etc to decide if they wanted to do anything above and beyond against the seller, but it wouldn’t be up to you to tell them if they should or shouldn’t.

[300bhp/ton]

BS9ider said:

This is something that concerned me also. After reading and reading the criteria a couple of times, I came to the conclusion that if engine displacement altered from original then no long exempt.

If you could have bought the vehicle with a larger engine. Then I’m pretty sure just swapping in that engine would not be an issue at all.

Eg
“Alternative cubic capacities of the same basic engine and alternative original equipment engines are not considered to be a substantial change.“

Seems pretty clear and easy to read to me.

[BS9ider]

300bhp/ton said:

BS9ider said:

This is something that concerned me also. After reading and reading the criteria a couple of times, I came to the conclusion that if engine displacement altered from original then no long exempt.

If you could have bought the vehicle with a larger engine. Then I’m pretty sure just swapping in that engine would not be an issue at all.

Eg
“Alternative cubic capacities of the same basic engine and alternative original equipment engines are not considered to be a substantial change.“

Seems pretty clear and easy to read to me.

I guess, was thinking more about those which have upgraded to a Pinto or Twincam etc. Could that get a bit tricky with insurers if not considered same basic engine.

[anonymous-user]

The Dovla use a points based system to determine whether a vehicle has been so significantly modified that it is no longer considered a historic vehicle.

To be honest you could change quite a lot and stay within the letter and spirit of the system, especially if it’s an old or period modification. Even a modern engine conversion and suspension changes would not amount to a significant difference in most cases.

[sixor8]

300bhp/ton said:

skeeterm5 said:

I get that, but I am not considering if my own car is exempt or not, per my original post.

My point being more about sellers and the wide spread inconsistency as to how they decide that their cars are exempt even following fairly major reconstruction, new engines etc.

As ever caveat emptor seems to be the order of the day.

Edited by skeeterm5 on Sunday 8th May 17:25

You need to make the declaration each year. Ultimately it doesn’t really matter what someone else does. It only matters what you do. If you buy a car declared historic and MoT exempt. It would be your responsibility to MoT it if you disagreed.

If it was clearly a breach then you could make a civil case against the seller for miss leading information or false advertising I’d guess. It would however be down to the DVLA etc to decide if they wanted to do anything above and beyond against the seller, but it wouldn’t be up to you to tell them if they should or shouldn’t.

I'm not aware that you have to make any declaration every year. I bought a car in 2020 that was already in the 'historic vehicle' class, put there by the previous owner to obtain VED exemption.

If you do an online check on it with the DVLA database, it comes back as MoT 'no results held.' It had a valid MoT when I bought it.

It would seem the onus is on an owner, if he makes any substantial alterations to a car that is already in the historic vehicle class, to voluntarily submit it for an MoT test! As noted above, if an insurance claim were made, or the vehicle stopped and inspected, and it was NOT close enough to original to be exempt the MoT test, there would be issues I presume.......

[InitialDave]

BS9ider said:

I guess, was thinking more about those which have upgraded to a Pinto or Twincam etc. Could that get a bit tricky with insurers if not considered same basic engine.

But you could get them with a Pinto or a Twincam, so it would seem that those wouldn't count as a substantial change for "historic" purposes, whereas a Zetec would?

[mgtony]

I think the 'every year' thing is the box you tick when you renew your free RFL/tax.

[sixor8]

It's possible. I renewed the VED at £0 on my car online last year and I didn't keep the renewal notice. I know some classic car owners keep EVERYTHING but superfluous VED demands are not something I value. I'll pay more attention this year.

[b2hbm]

skeeterm5 said:

Hi all,
One thing baffling me is that almost all of those I am looking at state that they are MOT exempt. However almost all of those I am looking at are RS or Mexico recreations so have different engines and running gear to the original cars.
I thought this would type of thing would classify as a major modification and hence mean the car does need an MOT. Am I misreading the rules or are people just generally ignoring it?

I can understand the confusion and to be honest you can find loopholes all over the place. On the DVLA website you'll see their interpretation of acceptable changes for historic vehicles

DVLA said:

changes are made to preserve a vehicle because the original type parts are no longer reasonably available
they are changes of a type which can be demonstrated to have been made when vehicles of the type were in production or within 10 years of the end of production
axles and running gear have been changed to improve efficiency, safety or environmental performance

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/histori...

So on that basis you could argue that better brakes are acceptable (safety), a modern engine or engine management system is acceptable (efficiency/environment) and so on.

I think you'd struggle to convince them that a 7L lump of Detroit iron in your Morris 1000 was acceptable, but dropping another period engine to emulate a sportier model offered at the time is probably ok. When you look at the second line in the DVLA list and consider that in the 60s/70s & even 80s the aftermarket tuning was a common thing with enthusiasts then there's a lot to go at and still remain inside the definitions.

[300bhp/ton]

sixor8 said:

I'm not aware that you have to make any declaration every year. I bought a car in 2020 that was already in the 'historic vehicle' class, put there by the previous owner to obtain VED exemption.

If you do an online check on it with the DVLA database, it comes back as MoT 'no results held.' It had a valid MoT when I bought it.

It would seem the onus is on an owner, if he makes any substantial alterations to a car that is already in the historic vehicle class, to voluntarily submit it for an MoT test! As noted above, if an insurance claim were made, or the vehicle stopped and inspected, and it was NOT close enough to original to be exempt the MoT test, there would be issues I presume.......

If it is a historic car, you still need to renew the VED each year, even though it is £0. During this process you have to declare if it is MoT exempt or not. I believe you have to do this each and every-time you 'tax' the car. And as tax isn't transferrable, if you bought a new classic car you'd need to go through this step.