M27 - "smart motorway" cameras
Discussion
Now the wonderful M27 "smart" motorway section is up and running (after just 5 years of hassle..) and still only at a 60mph limit, I have a couple of questions:
1. There appear to be no on-gantry cameras yet, but there are 2 or 3 locations where cameras are sited adjacent to a gantry way over to the left - are these instant speed checking, or average speed between the cameras?
2. The average speed cameras, used during the last 5 years of hassle are generally still in position - are these still active (I know SOME of the cameras have a "Camera not in use" sign)?
Is the whole "smart" section an average speed enforcement zone, or instantaneous, or a mix of the 2?
Thanks in advance!
1. There appear to be no on-gantry cameras yet, but there are 2 or 3 locations where cameras are sited adjacent to a gantry way over to the left - are these instant speed checking, or average speed between the cameras?
2. The average speed cameras, used during the last 5 years of hassle are generally still in position - are these still active (I know SOME of the cameras have a "Camera not in use" sign)?
Is the whole "smart" section an average speed enforcement zone, or instantaneous, or a mix of the 2?
Thanks in advance!
Tony B2 said:
Now the wonderful M27 "smart" motorway section is up and running (after just 5 years of hassle..) and still only at a 60mph limit, I have a couple of questions:
1. There appear to be no on-gantry cameras yet, but there are 2 or 3 locations where cameras are sited adjacent to a gantry way over to the left - are these instant speed checking, or average speed between the cameras?
2. The average speed cameras, used during the last 5 years of hassle are generally still in position - are these still active (I know SOME of the cameras have a "Camera not in use" sign)?
Is the whole "smart" section an average speed enforcement zone, or instantaneous, or a mix of the 2?
Thanks in advance!
1) Cameras located over to the far left are generally "instant" type, which will flash when activated. (Speed limit obviously linked to the gantry signs).1. There appear to be no on-gantry cameras yet, but there are 2 or 3 locations where cameras are sited adjacent to a gantry way over to the left - are these instant speed checking, or average speed between the cameras?
2. The average speed cameras, used during the last 5 years of hassle are generally still in position - are these still active (I know SOME of the cameras have a "Camera not in use" sign)?
Is the whole "smart" section an average speed enforcement zone, or instantaneous, or a mix of the 2?
Thanks in advance!
2) Unless signage at the base says "camera not in use", then I would strongly suggests you assume they remain live.
Can't really answer the third query fully, but taking the M4 Smart motorway as an example (which has recently been completed from Slough to Theale), it is operating using instantaneous speed cameras only. However, the section from Slough to the M25 is still "in progress", and as such using average cameras.
Another M27 daily user (sadly!).
1.
I was under the impression that the only cameras going up are the ones to the left of the gantry with a separate camera before the gantry to take a photo of your car, the camera taking the shot and the published speed limit on the gantry
2.
At one point all of the average speed cameras had the "camera not in use" sign in front of them but over the last couple of months most have blown down. I can't say 100% but do not believe they're live as they'll not be able to work out what the 'average average' speed should be. By that I mean there's a camera before Jn5 where it's 60mph then immediately after Jn5 it drops to 50mph (another but separate rant!) then pops back up to 60mph before the next average speed camera so the average across the two points would be something like 55.7mph! Then they'd also need photos of each posted limit between cameras!
3.
Smart section is to be fixed point cameras only, per point 2 I don't believe the average can work anymore.
1.
I was under the impression that the only cameras going up are the ones to the left of the gantry with a separate camera before the gantry to take a photo of your car, the camera taking the shot and the published speed limit on the gantry
2.
At one point all of the average speed cameras had the "camera not in use" sign in front of them but over the last couple of months most have blown down. I can't say 100% but do not believe they're live as they'll not be able to work out what the 'average average' speed should be. By that I mean there's a camera before Jn5 where it's 60mph then immediately after Jn5 it drops to 50mph (another but separate rant!) then pops back up to 60mph before the next average speed camera so the average across the two points would be something like 55.7mph! Then they'd also need photos of each posted limit between cameras!
3.
Smart section is to be fixed point cameras only, per point 2 I don't believe the average can work anymore.
I use the M27 frequently; as said it's 60 mph limit in the 'Smart' bit from junctions 4 to 11. Apart from the odd 50 mph bit, helpfully. There is zero guidance about what the cameras (and there's lots of them) actually do, as mentioned above.
But why 60 mph? I get that it was initially to give people time to get used to it, but that was weeks ago. And I thought the point of a smart motorway was variable speed limits to react to traffic conditions. Is this a sneaky way of implementing a permanent lower limit?
You have the silly situation that as you pass J11 eastbound, up the hill towards Portsmouth, the 60 limit ends and it's now 70, for no reason at all. In fact that bit is more dangerous because lane 4 ends half way up the hill, causing muppet drivers to cut in to lane 3 at the last minute. So, a higher limit on a more risky stretch of road........odd.
But why 60 mph? I get that it was initially to give people time to get used to it, but that was weeks ago. And I thought the point of a smart motorway was variable speed limits to react to traffic conditions. Is this a sneaky way of implementing a permanent lower limit?
You have the silly situation that as you pass J11 eastbound, up the hill towards Portsmouth, the 60 limit ends and it's now 70, for no reason at all. In fact that bit is more dangerous because lane 4 ends half way up the hill, causing muppet drivers to cut in to lane 3 at the last minute. So, a higher limit on a more risky stretch of road........odd.
MattyD803 said:
1) Cameras located over to the far left are generally "instant" type, which will flash when activated. (Speed limit obviously linked to the gantry signs).
2) Unless signage at the base says "camera not in use", then I would strongly suggests you assume they remain live.
Can't really answer the third query fully, but taking the M4 Smart motorway as an example (which has recently been completed from Slough to Theale), it is operating using instantaneous speed cameras only. However, the section from Slough to the M25 is still "in progress", and as such using average cameras.
Can confirm the above - the yellow cameras at the left of gantries are instantaneous. On the M4 they seem to flash regularly.2) Unless signage at the base says "camera not in use", then I would strongly suggests you assume they remain live.
Can't really answer the third query fully, but taking the M4 Smart motorway as an example (which has recently been completed from Slough to Theale), it is operating using instantaneous speed cameras only. However, the section from Slough to the M25 is still "in progress", and as such using average cameras.
One slightly infuriating thing is that on the M4 section (Slough to Reading) they seem to be position every mile, much closer than any fixed instant speed cameras I know. Which doesn't bode well for when they complete the "smartification" of the M4 from J3-12 (and I don't think I'm ever going to get back the time wasted due to the closures and restrictions while they've been building the redundant thing).
I used to love flooring at the end of the elevated section at Chiswick and landing in Bath just over an hour later.
wa16 said:
it caused a lot of confusion yesteday some doing 50, some 60, taxis and the odd car doing 70
I used the M27 yesterday and one section was displaying the NSL symbol on a variable sign (not the gantry) but the joy was short-lived as in less than a mile it was back to 60, or even 50.The lane restrictions around the Hamble crossing appeared to be due to bridge reinforcement activity.
If that is so, WTF have they been doing for the last 5 years, to wait until now, just after semi-normality returns to decide to do this work, with further impact on traffic flows.
ScoobyChris said:
Used to live down that way a while back and enjoy a blat leaving the M3 heading east along the M27. Took the good lady on a weekend away a couple of weekends ago to the coast and we had to trundle for miles and miles at 50mph on a completely clear road.
Grumble grumble!
Chris
Try over 4 years of having to trundle along it, it's been purgatory! Grumble grumble!
Chris
I've been travelling the M27/M3 on holidays for a few months now
1. These look to be the standard cameras as they have all round the M25, so instant based on the speed limit showing.
2. I always assume a yellow pole is active, and ignore any sign at the base.
It's terrible when they have roadworks and then don't clear up afterwards - there are several sections of the M11 where they appear to have left the 50mph signs up on a perfectly clear road section that isn't being worked on. I seem to be one of the only ones actually doing 50, others just seem to be doing their normal 80-90 as they blast past.
It's probably much less safe having these incorrect limits left about, rather than if they removed them and had the standard 70. Otherwise there is a large difference in speeds between traffic.
1. These look to be the standard cameras as they have all round the M25, so instant based on the speed limit showing.
2. I always assume a yellow pole is active, and ignore any sign at the base.
It's terrible when they have roadworks and then don't clear up afterwards - there are several sections of the M11 where they appear to have left the 50mph signs up on a perfectly clear road section that isn't being worked on. I seem to be one of the only ones actually doing 50, others just seem to be doing their normal 80-90 as they blast past.
It's probably much less safe having these incorrect limits left about, rather than if they removed them and had the standard 70. Otherwise there is a large difference in speeds between traffic.
Average ones are no longer working. Ones to the left are the instant speed ones (as they are on many motorways). I set cruise control to an indicated 65 and that seems fine.
Far more of an issue is the standard of driving where people are incapable of using the inside lane or sticking in lane 3 with nothing in lane 2. Overall lane discipline is shocking.
Far more of an issue is the standard of driving where people are incapable of using the inside lane or sticking in lane 3 with nothing in lane 2. Overall lane discipline is shocking.
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