Discussion
In the market for a sensibly priced 5-7 year old petrol seven seater at the moment. Bit of a challenge.
Anyway, the FSH game. I've taken to asking dealers to detail the history before I even consider leaving the house now, as apparently cars didn't need servicing between late 2019 and now! Dealers - just because you've changed the oil now, doesn't make it a FSH
Anyone else seeing this?
As an aside, it seems a bit risky to buy a petrol that hasn't been serviced for 24k over a period of 2.5 years ..or am I being paranoid?
Anyway, the FSH game. I've taken to asking dealers to detail the history before I even consider leaving the house now, as apparently cars didn't need servicing between late 2019 and now! Dealers - just because you've changed the oil now, doesn't make it a FSH
Anyone else seeing this?
As an aside, it seems a bit risky to buy a petrol that hasn't been serviced for 24k over a period of 2.5 years ..or am I being paranoid?
Quite a few cars have service intervals of 2 yrs or 20,000 miles, so it's not necessarily far out and if the vehicle has been working it's way through the trade for a bit, then that could account for a month or 6. If a car is going to be swapped/traded in/sold, quite a few people don't bother with the due service and leave it for the trade to do at cost.
Thanks guys.
Quick one - one of the vehicles has a service interval of 20,000 miles or 12 months, whichever comes first. But according to records has done 23,000 in 32 months without a service...if I can't find evidence of the missing two services, it seems a bit of a red flag. Are petrols more resilient to this than diesels?
The last recorded service before the current dealer got hold of it was at a main dealer, by the second owner, who had just bought it a month earlier.
Just seems a bit weird unless the 2nd owner was getting it done and not stamping the book.
Quick one - one of the vehicles has a service interval of 20,000 miles or 12 months, whichever comes first. But according to records has done 23,000 in 32 months without a service...if I can't find evidence of the missing two services, it seems a bit of a red flag. Are petrols more resilient to this than diesels?
The last recorded service before the current dealer got hold of it was at a main dealer, by the second owner, who had just bought it a month earlier.
Just seems a bit weird unless the 2nd owner was getting it done and not stamping the book.
Mr Spoon said:
...They could after all just turn out to be stamp marks and nothing further....
Indeed. I once bought a Honda with a book full of dealer stamps and the previous owner to me had luckily spotted that the owner at the time of the service where the cambelt should be changed had just got them to do a basic oil change - they'd stamped the book as if it had the full belt service - luckily the receipts showed what had been done (with the cambelt changed at a later date) or not done as the case may be.Budget to have a full service done when you buy the car.
Unless it has full main dealer service history with an electronic record FSH can mean many things such as
Yes FSH but we lost the paperwork in a house move
Cant give it to you GDPR and all that
Yes I serviced it myself with the cheapest oil I could get from Aldi, and thats why the engine cover rattles because I destroyed the screws
A service book with a letraset stamp from some 'garage' at the other end of the country
A sticker on the slam panel proudly stating the the cambelt was changed in 2016 or is that 2018?
Unless it has full main dealer service history with an electronic record FSH can mean many things such as
Yes FSH but we lost the paperwork in a house move
Cant give it to you GDPR and all that
Yes I serviced it myself with the cheapest oil I could get from Aldi, and thats why the engine cover rattles because I destroyed the screws
A service book with a letraset stamp from some 'garage' at the other end of the country
A sticker on the slam panel proudly stating the the cambelt was changed in 2016 or is that 2018?
Back2theFuji said:
In the market for a sensibly priced 5-7 year old petrol seven seater at the moment. Bit of a challenge.
Anyway, the FSH game. I've taken to asking dealers to detail the history before I even consider leaving the house now, as apparently cars didn't need servicing between late 2019 and now! Dealers - just because you've changed the oil now, doesn't make it a FSH
Anyone else seeing this?
As an aside, it seems a bit risky to buy a petrol that hasn't been serviced for 24k over a period of 2.5 years ..or am I being paranoid?
You are right, this happens a lot. I think this is perhaps another area of car sales that needs regulating, as dealers cannot be trusted to do the right thing and tell the truth. Anyway, the FSH game. I've taken to asking dealers to detail the history before I even consider leaving the house now, as apparently cars didn't need servicing between late 2019 and now! Dealers - just because you've changed the oil now, doesn't make it a FSH
Anyone else seeing this?
As an aside, it seems a bit risky to buy a petrol that hasn't been serviced for 24k over a period of 2.5 years ..or am I being paranoid?
In my view, for a car to be deemed FSH, it must have had a service at least every year or at the required mileage interval, whichever is sooner.
I once bought a car with a 25,000 mile, 2 year gap in its service history and it gave me lots of problems.
I have been involved with helping a couple of people recently buy a Lamborghini LP560-4 Gallardo.
With that being by any point of reference a fairly premium car, it was amazing how many currently on the market claim to have a Full Service History but don’t and how many have all sorts of issues which are basically down to various degrees of neglect which come to light even with the most cursory of inspections, let alone a full pre-purchase inspection.
Genuine, well maintained and loved cars of this type are actually quite thin on the ground. Whilst this first hand experience is with quite a niche vehicle, it is probably indicative of the wider market.
I recent bought a 2018 BMW G31 530D M Sport and it took me some time to find the right car with the right credentials, quite a lot of main dealer stock does not appear it’s best even at this level.
Given the ongoing extended lead times for new cars and how this is driving demand for used cars, I suspect that many dealers are becoming less picky about what they stock and are just happy to sell anything to keep the pounds flowing.
With that being by any point of reference a fairly premium car, it was amazing how many currently on the market claim to have a Full Service History but don’t and how many have all sorts of issues which are basically down to various degrees of neglect which come to light even with the most cursory of inspections, let alone a full pre-purchase inspection.
Genuine, well maintained and loved cars of this type are actually quite thin on the ground. Whilst this first hand experience is with quite a niche vehicle, it is probably indicative of the wider market.
I recent bought a 2018 BMW G31 530D M Sport and it took me some time to find the right car with the right credentials, quite a lot of main dealer stock does not appear it’s best even at this level.
Given the ongoing extended lead times for new cars and how this is driving demand for used cars, I suspect that many dealers are becoming less picky about what they stock and are just happy to sell anything to keep the pounds flowing.
Driver101 said:
It surprises me how many expensive cars are out there with huge holes in the service history.
Nearly all adverts will claim FSH.
I wonder how a judge would interpret a "FSH" ??Nearly all adverts will claim FSH.
I'm guessing the intervals would have to be somewhere close to the manufacturers recommendations. Mileage/time.
But how much leeway would there be?
Two or three months?
But I would hope that if was clearly NOT a FSH a judge would say the car's been miss advertised.
What's the legal people's on here thinking?
Trevor555 said:
Driver101 said:
It surprises me how many expensive cars are out there with huge holes in the service history.
Nearly all adverts will claim FSH.
I wonder how a judge would interpret a "FSH" ??Nearly all adverts will claim FSH.
I'm guessing the intervals would have to be somewhere close to the manufacturers recommendations. Mileage/time.
But how much leeway would there be?
Two or three months?
But I would hope that if was clearly NOT a FSH a judge would say the car's been miss advertised.
What's the legal people's on here thinking?
I don't know how many BMW or Minis I've looked at with the idrive service history in red. It's a telling sign how many dealers don't take pictures of the screen.
There's lots of BMW M cars that haven't done the run in service. Owners have voided their warranty immediately on expensive cars.
nick1871 said:
... I was amazed how many cars had not had their first service done / done late / done by Halfords etc.....
A lot of fleet cars get serviced by random garages - people in my office who have 'essential user' cars (ie. you get given a Focus/Golf etc while you are in a specific role) book their services via an online portal that garages bid for the work on, often it is some one-man-band back street garage who turns up to the office to collect the car and delivers it back a couple hours later.The thing I've found is that some dealers truthfully advertise the car with a "Full Service History". And the car does indeed have a full history of all work done. It's just not been done to schedule, in some cases by a significant margin. They're technically not being dishonest - there is a complete history with the car.
One 996.2 that I went to view was advertised as "FSH", despite one three and one four year interval where it wasn't serviced. But, as the docs were all there, the dealer considered that it had a full history. When I pointed this out he basically said, it's got a full history of everything so why are you complaining?
When buying a car now I grill them much more in terms of what their "FSH" actually contains before going to view.
One 996.2 that I went to view was advertised as "FSH", despite one three and one four year interval where it wasn't serviced. But, as the docs were all there, the dealer considered that it had a full history. When I pointed this out he basically said, it's got a full history of everything so why are you complaining?
When buying a car now I grill them much more in terms of what their "FSH" actually contains before going to view.
Magnum 475 said:
One 996.2 that I went to view was advertised as "FSH", despite one three and one four year interval where it wasn't serviced. But, as the docs were all there, the dealer considered that it had a full history. When I pointed this out he basically said, it's got a full history of everything so why are you
That’s my understanding of FSH. it’s all there - you decide whether it’s satisfactory or not. Remember the 911uk adage. You buy the paperwork. The car comes for free.
I remember buying a car just before Covid in 2020 that was advertised as having a FSH.
Turned out the car had been sitting on the dealers lot since Dec 2018, so technically it had missed a service. It was pre-Covid prices and a good deal (£2-3k cheaper than main dealers) so we bought it anyway.
Turned out the car had been sitting on the dealers lot since Dec 2018, so technically it had missed a service. It was pre-Covid prices and a good deal (£2-3k cheaper than main dealers) so we bought it anyway.
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