third party liability
Discussion
We live in a modern house with one other immediate neighbour. In theory, the driveway is not shared, our boundary goes down the middle. in practice, it's very hard to use the parking area without treating the area in front as shared and both we and they use the other side for access. I have no problem with it, and we typically have a decent relationship - the van parks on our side sometimes, and if I bring our caravan home it goes down the side, and sometimes is over their side by a bit.
Their latest move has pissed me off a tad, not least as I think a conversation may have been polite. She is now renting out her parking spaces - of interest as we are 2 miles from Doncaster airport. I'm not going to kick up a fuss (unless one of them reverses into my car, my fence, or gets the wrong house and parks on my side. I am a bit concerned about the 'general public' using my half of the driveway and any third-party liability that I may involuntarily pick up along the way. Any thoughts on this?
At this moment in time, I know. She does not know that I know. Although it's fairly obvious by the cars coming and going. I am looking forward to the response to the inevitable car with an oil leak...
Their latest move has pissed me off a tad, not least as I think a conversation may have been polite. She is now renting out her parking spaces - of interest as we are 2 miles from Doncaster airport. I'm not going to kick up a fuss (unless one of them reverses into my car, my fence, or gets the wrong house and parks on my side. I am a bit concerned about the 'general public' using my half of the driveway and any third-party liability that I may involuntarily pick up along the way. Any thoughts on this?
At this moment in time, I know. She does not know that I know. Although it's fairly obvious by the cars coming and going. I am looking forward to the response to the inevitable car with an oil leak...
I need to have a look, but I don't think so from memory.
And besides,, who is going to enforce them? Realistically not me.
Plus they are still neighbours. While I think they should have mentioned it, I'm not looking to fall out with them. But I don't want to pick up any liability if a stone comes loose on my side of the drives etc.
And besides,, who is going to enforce them? Realistically not me.
Plus they are still neighbours. While I think they should have mentioned it, I'm not looking to fall out with them. But I don't want to pick up any liability if a stone comes loose on my side of the drives etc.
I think a letter along the lines of:-
Hi Neighbour. I think, judging from the number of cars coming and going, that you are renting out your parking space. We looked at this ourselves a while ago, and decided, although on the face of it, it is a nice little earner, we realised that as technically it is a business, it opens up not only the prospect of tax implications, but more importantly insurance - particularly public liability.
We wanted to bring this to your attention, because inevitably your customers will drive on the centre drive area which technically you and we own 50% each of. Should one of your customers have any sort of incident or accident while accessing the parking space, it's going to open a huge can of worms because we obviously can't take public liability for your customers accessing our part of the drive while entering your space. Technically they don't have our permission to do this, and hence would be trespassing.
Of course, no problem at all with you doing what we have always done :-) and shared the access for practical convenience. It's not really a problem for us - we're just putting on record that we deny any public liability for this - just in case.
Cheers.
Your nice neighbour.
Hi Neighbour. I think, judging from the number of cars coming and going, that you are renting out your parking space. We looked at this ourselves a while ago, and decided, although on the face of it, it is a nice little earner, we realised that as technically it is a business, it opens up not only the prospect of tax implications, but more importantly insurance - particularly public liability.
We wanted to bring this to your attention, because inevitably your customers will drive on the centre drive area which technically you and we own 50% each of. Should one of your customers have any sort of incident or accident while accessing the parking space, it's going to open a huge can of worms because we obviously can't take public liability for your customers accessing our part of the drive while entering your space. Technically they don't have our permission to do this, and hence would be trespassing.
Of course, no problem at all with you doing what we have always done :-) and shared the access for practical convenience. It's not really a problem for us - we're just putting on record that we deny any public liability for this - just in case.
Cheers.
Your nice neighbour.
A letter is perhaps the worst possible way to approach anything. Plus you can't disclaim your legal liabilities anyway.
OP, personally I think that the chances of anybody successfully claiming against you is small to zero and I think there's a good chance your house insurance will cover it anyway. But if you really are worried, then a chat with your neighbours along the lines of "I'm worried about this, I've looked and my house insurance doesn't cover it, can we look at you obtaining a commercial policy to cover us both?" might bear some fruit.
Actually I think the far greater risk is of somebody reversing into your car and doing a runner. Which I guess you are insured for but would will be a right pain.
OP, personally I think that the chances of anybody successfully claiming against you is small to zero and I think there's a good chance your house insurance will cover it anyway. But if you really are worried, then a chat with your neighbours along the lines of "I'm worried about this, I've looked and my house insurance doesn't cover it, can we look at you obtaining a commercial policy to cover us both?" might bear some fruit.
Actually I think the far greater risk is of somebody reversing into your car and doing a runner. Which I guess you are insured for but would will be a right pain.
deckster said:
A letter is perhaps the worst possible way to approach anything. Plus you can't disclaim your legal liabilities anyway.
You miss the point. I know you can't disclaim liability - the intent is to get them worried enough to stop, not get into the technicalities of insurance. In any case, in any situation, a letter (or email) is always The Best way of communicating - it makes a physical record should you ever have to refer back. A conversation is just that.deckster said:
Actually I think the far greater risk is of somebody reversing into your car and doing a runner. Which I guess you are insured for but would will be a right pain.
+1Or even just dings, etc. Logically cars would be coming and going more often with this scheme, and you'd basically have no idea who they were if they damaged your car and your neighbour would only have a passing familiarity with them as well (possibly just the name and number or email of the renter, who may not even be the driver who turns up).
I'd be looking to get decent CCTV in place so you can capture the plates of anyone who hits your car or property. Beyond that since you aren't a participant in any contract I don't see how you could be found liable for any third party liabilities.
mr rusty said:
deckster said:
A letter is perhaps the worst possible way to approach anything. Plus you can't disclaim your legal liabilities anyway.
You miss the point. I know you can't disclaim liability - the intent is to get them worried enough to stop, not get into the technicalities of insurance. In any case, in any situation, a letter (or email) is always The Best way of communicating - it makes a physical record should you ever have to refer back. A conversation is just that.mr rusty said:
deckster said:
A letter is perhaps the worst possible way to approach anything. Plus you can't disclaim your legal liabilities anyway.
You miss the point. I know you can't disclaim liability - the intent is to get them worried enough to stop, not get into the technicalities of insurance. In any case, in any situation, a letter (or email) is always The Best way of communicating - it makes a physical record should you ever have to refer back. A conversation is just that.Here's an idea: if the intention is to get them to stop selling their parking spaces, then ask them to stop selling their parking spaces. Or maybe I'm just being too straightforward here.
Lots to be said for fences between properties. You also need to consider the impact on the paving as there is now or will be a lot more traffic over it.
Assuming it is freehold then I would look at the deeds to see if there is a nuisance clause or restrictions on the type of business that can be run at the property. If leasehold then a trawl through the lease is needed.
If they are renting out the front spaces then I would bring the caravan home and put it down the side and tell them you need it home as the fees for parking it elsewhere are too expensive.
Assuming it is freehold then I would look at the deeds to see if there is a nuisance clause or restrictions on the type of business that can be run at the property. If leasehold then a trawl through the lease is needed.
If they are renting out the front spaces then I would bring the caravan home and put it down the side and tell them you need it home as the fees for parking it elsewhere are too expensive.
Durzel said:
Beyond that since you aren't a participant in any contract I don't see how you could be found liable for any third party liabilities.
Doesn't work like that I'm afraid. If you are negligent in maintaining your property then you are liable for any injuries/damage caused regardless of whether the person was supposed to be there or not.But I still think the risks of being found to be liable in these circumstances are pretty close to zero, unless you're in the habit of leaving rusty coils of razorwire hidden in a bag next to some wobbly paving slabs, I suppose.
Durzel said:
Sending a letter to your neighbour is just weird, and will be treated as such.
I do agree to an extent, but since it is obvious that if the OP and neighbours were really buddies, they would already have discussed it! Yes, if there is any sort of relationship, I agree, worth talking first.deckster said:
Here's an idea: if the intention is to get them to stop selling their parking spaces, then ask them to stop selling their parking spaces.
That probably has more potential for stoking up a Jeremy Vine moment than a letter. Do you actually think he would have any right to, I assume they are freehold properties, the access is split. said neighbour's answer could well be "Mind your own F'kin business"quote=martinbiz]
That probably has more potential for stoking up a Jeremy Vine moment than a letter. Do you actually think he would have any right to, I assume they are freehold properties, the access is split. said neighbour's answer could well be "Mind your own F'kin business"
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Quite. Although I would say that while the parked 'customers cars' are not a pain - them now over spilling is. In part that's due to them having sand further down at the moment. They keep apologising for that, but have yet to mention the revolving cars....
[quote=Zetec-S]f
k me, it's parking for the local airport, so what, 1 car a day? 1 car a week? And people are worrying about wear and tear on the driveway 
It's hardly the local NCP.
I'd maybe put up CCTV to cover you for any (unlikely) parking mishaps, other than that is it really a big deal?
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Seems to be 2 cars at least today. As said I don't want to pick up third-party liability and especially don't want to get bumped into. I'm not that worried about wear and tear...
Our planners will be pissed though. We have ample parking to ensure that we have room to turn and drive out onto the busy road forwards. I'm not sure that renting the turning space was in their minds...
I suspect that they did not put a condition in place though....
That probably has more potential for stoking up a Jeremy Vine moment than a letter. Do you actually think he would have any right to, I assume they are freehold properties, the access is split. said neighbour's answer could well be "Mind your own F'kin business"
[/quote]
Quite. Although I would say that while the parked 'customers cars' are not a pain - them now over spilling is. In part that's due to them having sand further down at the moment. They keep apologising for that, but have yet to mention the revolving cars....
[quote=Zetec-S]f
k me, it's parking for the local airport, so what, 1 car a day? 1 car a week? And people are worrying about wear and tear on the driveway It's hardly the local NCP.I'd maybe put up CCTV to cover you for any (unlikely) parking mishaps, other than that is it really a big deal?
[/quote]
Seems to be 2 cars at least today. As said I don't want to pick up third-party liability and especially don't want to get bumped into. I'm not that worried about wear and tear...
Our planners will be pissed though. We have ample parking to ensure that we have room to turn and drive out onto the busy road forwards. I'm not sure that renting the turning space was in their minds...
I suspect that they did not put a condition in place though....Is it forbidden to put up a fence so it is clear where the boundary is and to keep the riff raff out of your side?
My worry here would be sooner or later someone is going to park a heavy truck there or just the endless cars in and out will destroy/sink the paving. Who will then pay for that?
My worry here would be sooner or later someone is going to park a heavy truck there or just the endless cars in and out will destroy/sink the paving. Who will then pay for that?
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