Aston Martin refusing me a CoC

[Calinours]

I'm relocating from UK to France this year and hoping to take the Astons. I've approached AM about a Certificate of Conformity (CoC) which is a key document needed for registration in France, and only possible to get from the OEM. While it's not problem for the DB11, they seem very reluctant to give me one for my 2011 V8VS. To quote: "the legal team put a block on all documentation requests where a car has been written off".

My car which will be known to a few of the old timers on here was written off (Cat D) in 2013, and subsequently quickly put back on the road the same year. While the repairs by some now defunct Porsche dealer certainly were not perfect, still evident by the time I bought it in 2016, I have resolved the outstanding bits and pieces over the years and the car is now more or less A1. I can't believe AM would refuse a CoC for export because a car has a DVLA Cat D marker. Where is the legal risk to the manufacturer? They state that they "are unable to declare that the car conforms to the relevant standards as they don't know how well it was repaired". Surely any repair good enough to pass a subsequent MOT more or less guarantees that the car has not meaningfully been changed from design intent during repair? As many cars are modified anyway, no OEM can ever "guarantee" that any car being re-registered in another country later on its life would still 'conform"? I would have assumed that any CoC would and could only say that it 'conformed' at the point of manufacture/first registration, thus absolutely absolving the OEM from any form of liabiliy??

Anyone else got experience of this? - I feel I may have to take it to a franchise for some sort of inspection (its maintained by indies), but the problem is, the car is fairly well modified with switchable suspension, upgraded clutch, V12AMR back box, stainless headers, motorsport cats and more minor cosmetic stuff like carbon bits and glass switches. It has PS4 tyres which are non-OEM and thus it really isn't as AM specified it to be (but arguably should have done ) - and it is very loud. I'd be worried they would make me pay for inspection and still refuse the CoC...

Any thought or help from anyone at all thats ever heard of anything like this is appreciated. Without the CoC I cant take the car with me, and I really dont want to be forced to sell after I've put the neck end of 50k into getting the car just as I want it. It would sell for a pittance anyway, just because of the Cat D marker.

Thanks

[trevalvole]

Apologies for asking the bl**din' obvious, but is there one in the folder with the manual? On all the less prestigious cars I've had recently, the CoC could be found there.

[8Tech]

I can certainly see the factorys side of this. The car has been written off and not repaired by an authorised AM dealer and its no longer standard. How could they possibly certify that it conforms to all the standards required of it? Certainly minor things like emissions and noise would be higher than factory, but they certainly could not confirm it conforms to the crash test specification.

[JonnyCJ]

Swap out the V8VS for something of the equivalent value in the UK that isn’t CAT D ? Decent early 4.7 ?

[Calinours]

trevalvole said:

Apologies for asking the bl**din' obvious, but is there one in the folder with the manual? On all the less prestigious cars I've had recently, the CoC could be found there.

Thanks for the tip, but its not there. Only option is to get one from AML for £199 to you sir (and yes other marques do often seem to issue them for free)

[Calinours]

8Tech said:

I can certainly see the factorys side of this. The car has been written off and not repaired by an authorised AM dealer and its no longer standard. How could they possibly certify that it conforms to all the standards required of it? Certainly minor things like emissions and noise would be higher than factory, but they certainly could not confirm it conforms to the crash test specification.

yes, but this could be (and will be) true for absolutely any car several years down the line, lets face it, most Vantages do seem to get modified - yet there is no issue if no insurance marker

[darreni]

8Tech said:

I can certainly see the factorys side of this. The car has been written off and not repaired by an authorised AM dealer and its no longer standard. How could they possibly certify that it conforms to all the standards required of it? Certainly minor things like emissions and noise would be higher than factory, but they certainly could not confirm it conforms to the crash test specification.

I agree with 8 tech

[LTP]

The Certificate of Conformity is not saying it passes an MOT and is roadworthy. A CoC is a formal homologation document confirming that the car met all applicable EU/EEC regulations in force at the time the car was made. How on earth would you expect AML to do that on a car that has not only been written off and repaired (not even by a franchised body shop to AML processes) but has also been modified away from standard?

Edited to add
As far as modifications go, I've no idea whether France operates strict Type Approval like Germany does, but in Germany every accessory you fit (like different wheels) will have been tested by the manufacturer and have a 'CE' mark to show that they are suitable for the particular vehicle. The UK does not apply strict type approval, so modifications made or accessories fitted after the initial sale do not have to conform to the original EU/EEC regulations, but just have to meet the UK "Construction and Use" regulations.

Edited by LTP on Tuesday 31st May 20:00

[Calinours]

JonnyCJ said:

Swap out the V8VS for something of the equivalent value in the UK that isn’t CAT D ? Decent early 4.7 ?

I have spent 6 years and over 50 grand (on top of the 40+ grand paid for the car) maintaining, repairing, replacing, upgrading and perfecting the car. If I sold it quickly it would fetch maybe 35-40k at best due to the Cat D. I'd rather put the car into UK storage than sell it, as my first Aston it has always been a keeper.

I'm well aware the easy route is to just flog all the cars and go buy in the new country. I was hoping maybe for a legal view on whether AM were able to effectively prevent me from exporting. No car company could or would ever be able to 'certify' any of their cars once it has left the factory and is in use. A CoC is just a piece of paper, not a guarantee, not a warranty, that states that the car was originally designed to the relevant EU Type Approval standard.

Unfortunately, I cant re-register the car without it

[Doofus]

If the car has been mofdified, then you can submit it for a DREAL test in place of a CoC.

[pschlute]

Calinours said:

While the repairs by some now defunct Porsche dealer certainly were not perfect, still evident by the time I bought it in 2016, I have resolved the outstanding bits and pieces over the years and the car is now more or less A1

That is great for you. What has that got to do with AM ?

Calinours said:

Where is the legal risk to the manufacturer? They state that they "are unable to declare that the car conforms to the relevant standards as they don't know how well it was repaired"

The answer is in your post. The vehicle was written off. It is no longer an Aston Martin "as manufactured by them"

Calinours said:

Surely any repair good enough to pass a subsequent MOT more or less guarantees that the car has not meaningfully been changed from design intent during repair?

A MOT pass has nothing to do with what you suggest.

[Lee Jones Jnr]

LTP said:

The Certificate of Conformity is not saying it passes an MOT and is roadworthy. A CoC is a formal homologation document confirming that the car met all applicable EU/EEC regulations in force at the time the car was made. How on earth would you expect AML to do that on a car that has not only been written off and repaired (not even by a franchised body shop to AML processes) but has also been modified away from standard?

Anything that happened after the car was made is not relevant?

[sunbeam alpine]

Doofus said:

If the car has been mofdified, then you can submit it for a DREAL test in place of a CoC.

This may be your best option as if the car isn't as described on the CoC - and you're unfortunate enough to be dealing with a nit-picking examiner - you may hit problems anyway.

[Neil1300r]

Old timer here

I remember a V8V around that time being written off and then being put back on the road fairly quickly. It may not be the same car, but that one was written off not due to the cost of the parts but because part of the crash safety structure had been damaged. It wasn't immediately obvious but meant the car could never be put back to its original design and modern safety systems.

If it's the same car or had similar damage then I fully understand why AM will not iss a certificate for it.

Final point, as you must know modifying a car typically does not enhance its value and does not represent any sort of a return on investment/ cost of the modifications

[RichB]

Calinours said:

<clip> I was hoping maybe for a legal view on whether AM were able to effectively prevent me from exporting...

Nothing to do with legalities or the actions of AML, you are being prevented of importing it into France because of French regulations.

[Jon39]

It was a long time ago (new son-in-law perhaps), but I remember the person doing/dealing with the crash repairs, asking some questions on here.

Probably not easy to find, but that discussion should still be on pistonheads somewhere.
Think there were questions about the alloy casting forward protruding crash structure. Is that still a part which AML will not supply?

As already stated, the UK MoT is not a very high standard of inspection. They might do an MoT failure on a dashboard warning light, but are not allowed to prod the underneath with a screwdriver, to investigate corrosion (just as an example).

Edited by Jon39 on Tuesday 31st May 22:38

[EVR]

I had to request a CoC too for a Range Rover Sport with Italian plates to be sold in France and re-registered with French ones. No problems whatsoever from JLR and I thought the whole procedure has been way more easy than expected. There were no written offs in the car history though.

Anyway, what about keeping the Vantage on UK plates and just move the ownership to a relative that lives in the UK? Then take it to France and if asked, you say that it has been lent to you? It is annoying, especially for insurance, but I don't see many other ways.

[AyBee]

LTP said:

The Certificate of Conformity is not saying it passes an MOT and is roadworthy. A CoC is a formal homologation document confirming that the car met all applicable EU/EEC regulations in force at the time the car was made. How on earth would you expect AML to do that on a car that has not only been written off and repaired (not even by a franchised body shop to AML processes) but has also been modified away from standard?

Haven't you just answered your own question? If a CoC is confirming that the car met all applicable EU/EEC regulations in force at the time the car was made, anything that has happened since it was made is irrelevant, and that includes the damage, repair and any modifications.

[Calinours]

EVR said:

I had to request a CoC too for a Range Rover Sport with Italian plates to be sold in France and re-registered with French ones. No problems whatsoever from JLR and I thought the whole procedure has been way more easy than expected. There were no written offs in the car history though.

Anyway, what about keeping the Vantage on UK plates and just move the ownership to a relative that lives in the UK? Then take it to France and if asked, you say that it has been lent to you? It is annoying, especially for insurance, but I don't see many other ways.

Thanks, this might be a back up idea. Its a bit disappointing to have to do that, I see no reason why AM should not issue the CoC. It is, after all, just a document that confirms that the model of car was originally designed to meet EU legislation. I am maintaining a dialogue with AML legal team in the hope of resolution. Noting some of the comments, I will offer to submit the car for full inspection by AM if their internal concerns stem from questions over any residual damage. From what I understood at point of purchase in 2016 the car was categorised in 2013 as 'D' (now called 'N' or 'non-structural'), and I couldn't find anything major so I took the plunge. Since I've had it, I've had the car serviced by my local AM dealer and fully inspected by two of the best known independents while it was with them for upgrades, all reports gave the car a clean bill of health, confirming that crash cans all present and undamaged etc.

The poor vehicle has not really lived a charmed life - back in 2018 a lady in a 4x4 changed her mind after pulling out of a junction and reversed into me climbing half way up the bonnet. The car was recovered and went for full insurance evaluation and repair, which involved a new bumper, bonnet, grille, one headlight and a wing. I would have imagined that any sign of issue with crash structures would also have been picked up in that instance.

As I've had the car properly inspected and reported on, I had several years ago arrived at the conclusion that if any residual issues did remain post repair in 2013, then they have long since been resolved. I would be fascinated to understand more about what the concerns were at the time with those who may have known. I've looked all through PH and the threads mentioned have long since been deleted. I will reach out to those who have commented - I am someone who would want any residual issue sorted out properly.

Thanks also for all the other comments. I will update the thread once I reach conclusion with AM legal time post the engagement and maybe another inspection.

[sunbeam alpine]

Calinours said:

Thanks, this might be a back up idea. Its a bit disappointing to have to do that, I see no reason why AM should not issue the CoC. It is, after all, just a document that confirms that the model of car was originally designed to meet EU legislation. I am maintaining a dialogue with AML legal team in the hope of resolution. Noting some of the comments, I will offer to submit the car for full inspection by AM if their internal concerns stem from questions over any residual damage. From what I understood at point of purchase in 2016 the car was categorised in 2013 as 'D' (now called 'N' or 'non-structural'), and I couldn't find anything major so I took the plunge. Since I've had it, I've had the car serviced by my local AM dealer and fully inspected by two of the best known independents while it was with them for upgrades, all reports gave the car a clean bill of health, confirming that crash cans all present and undamaged etc.

The poor vehicle has not really lived a charmed life - back in 2018 a lady in a 4x4 changed her mind after pulling out of a junction and reversed into me climbing half way up the bonnet. The car was recovered and went for full insurance evaluation and repair, which involved a new bumper, bonnet, grille, one headlight and a wing. I would have imagined that any sign of issue with crash structures would also have been picked up in that instance.

As I've had the car properly inspected and reported on, I had several years ago arrived at the conclusion that if any residual issues did remain post repair in 2013, then they have long since been resolved. I would be fascinated to understand more about what the concerns were at the time with those who may have known. I've looked all through PH and the threads mentioned have long since been deleted. I will reach out to those who have commented - I am someone who would want any residual issue sorted out properly.

Thanks also for all the other comments. I will update the thread once I reach conclusion with AM legal time post the engagement and maybe another inspection.

You may still hit problems if the French carry out an inspection and you are unfortunate enough to have a difficult inspector, due to some of your modifications. I can't speak for France, but here in Belgium all imported vehicles (even MOT-exempt classics) have to undergo one inspection - probably something between an MOT and a SVA (apologies if this second one is the wrong terminology). Cars have to be pretty close to standard, and they check pretty strictly. I know that in NL they are much more relaxed.


I'm currently putting a single carburettor onto a late 1960's Alfa. It had later twin Webers fitted as an improvement and they've been on there for years. The inspector just happened to have a lot of knowledge of Alfas and knew that this particular model was only ever sold with single carbs. Result - refusal to register until this was changed. Fortunately I've got the right carb here and I'll swap it for the registration, then remount the twin carbs.