LGBTQ - Zero Tolerance Policy in Secondary Schools
Discussion
My teenage son has recently copped two detentions which I'm not sure were warranted. Now his place on the end of year trip is hanging by a thread and he might not go if the Head of Year decides he is homophobic.
First and foremost, he's not. He's 13 and enjoying being a lad but given we, as a family, have discussed such matters he's okay with it. One of his closest pals has a gay brother and my wife is friends with a gay couple who both run a local bistro; my son has no problem chatting to or socialising with them. I'm satisfied that he (13 and a half) is at ease with the subject.
The first school detention was when last year (Y7) they were all asked to sign an (LGBTQ) pact about being accepting of all. Part of the lesson was to fill out a questionnaire about their own sexual preference. I've not seen it but my son said it asked what they identified as. He may have been confused with the descriptions but he said there were options; gay, lesbian, bisexual, pan sexual etc., but not one for straight. I asked which one he ticked; he said he added another box at the bottom of the list and wrote 'straight' next to it before ticking it. He was pulled up, and the question his form tutor then asked was if he was homophobic. He said he wasn't. He also replied that if anyone is gay, he didn't have an issue with it but he himself liked girls. He copped a detention for it regardless and I still don't understand the reasoning for that punishment. Head of Year called it 'being intolerant of others' and that he made a homophobic remark.
He served his punishment, we had a chat about the incident and moved on from it.
A few months later, and he has now been removed from class for a day to write a statement about another incident he finds himself in the middle of. It is now pending further investigation but the Head of Year has already intimated (to me in an email) that he has made homophobic comments to someone in his year. He tells me he was sat with a girl who everyone knows is bisexual; her family also happen to be from Columbia and part of the getting-to-know-each-other conversation was if there was a world war, which country would she fight for. Later in the conversation, her bisexuality was mentioned (by her) and he asked her if it was more girls or boys. She wasn't sure. So he asked her she saw 'fit' twins, brother and sister, which one would she be attracted to. Someone overheard the conversation and reported him. He was removed from class (despite the girl not complaining and saying it was fine) and now my boy is now in the middle of an investigation. Girl is not allowed to speak to my son. He says she just blanks him.
I think the school is overreacting, and I'm still looking for an objective opinion. Am I missing something?
The school doesn't tolerate any nonsense and makes it clear there is a zero tolerance policy for bad behavior; I'm okay with it to a point, but when it comes to the recent LGBTQ reactions, I don't know what to think.
Could the school be overdoing it? I'm happy to be educated if I'm being ignorant.
First and foremost, he's not. He's 13 and enjoying being a lad but given we, as a family, have discussed such matters he's okay with it. One of his closest pals has a gay brother and my wife is friends with a gay couple who both run a local bistro; my son has no problem chatting to or socialising with them. I'm satisfied that he (13 and a half) is at ease with the subject.
The first school detention was when last year (Y7) they were all asked to sign an (LGBTQ) pact about being accepting of all. Part of the lesson was to fill out a questionnaire about their own sexual preference. I've not seen it but my son said it asked what they identified as. He may have been confused with the descriptions but he said there were options; gay, lesbian, bisexual, pan sexual etc., but not one for straight. I asked which one he ticked; he said he added another box at the bottom of the list and wrote 'straight' next to it before ticking it. He was pulled up, and the question his form tutor then asked was if he was homophobic. He said he wasn't. He also replied that if anyone is gay, he didn't have an issue with it but he himself liked girls. He copped a detention for it regardless and I still don't understand the reasoning for that punishment. Head of Year called it 'being intolerant of others' and that he made a homophobic remark.
He served his punishment, we had a chat about the incident and moved on from it.
A few months later, and he has now been removed from class for a day to write a statement about another incident he finds himself in the middle of. It is now pending further investigation but the Head of Year has already intimated (to me in an email) that he has made homophobic comments to someone in his year. He tells me he was sat with a girl who everyone knows is bisexual; her family also happen to be from Columbia and part of the getting-to-know-each-other conversation was if there was a world war, which country would she fight for. Later in the conversation, her bisexuality was mentioned (by her) and he asked her if it was more girls or boys. She wasn't sure. So he asked her she saw 'fit' twins, brother and sister, which one would she be attracted to. Someone overheard the conversation and reported him. He was removed from class (despite the girl not complaining and saying it was fine) and now my boy is now in the middle of an investigation. Girl is not allowed to speak to my son. He says she just blanks him.
I think the school is overreacting, and I'm still looking for an objective opinion. Am I missing something?
The school doesn't tolerate any nonsense and makes it clear there is a zero tolerance policy for bad behavior; I'm okay with it to a point, but when it comes to the recent LGBTQ reactions, I don't know what to think.
Could the school be overdoing it? I'm happy to be educated if I'm being ignorant.
I am concerned about the approach the school is taking, yes his questioning of the girl could be seen as inappropriate, but that is part of being 13.
The reason why straight is frowned upon by some is that implies that to not be straight means someone is 'bent'. I can see why that might draw offence, although again to punish him on this is worrying as it should have been an opportunity to put forward just that. The fact he doesn't know what the issue was means they failed to explain this.
The school seems militant in their approach and are not helping themselves or the LGBTQ community in doing so. I would ask to speak with the head of year to explore this in more detail.
I suspect that that there may also be a little more to it that your son might be omitting, but then learning about and testing boundaries is part of being adolescent!
The reason why straight is frowned upon by some is that implies that to not be straight means someone is 'bent'. I can see why that might draw offence, although again to punish him on this is worrying as it should have been an opportunity to put forward just that. The fact he doesn't know what the issue was means they failed to explain this.
The school seems militant in their approach and are not helping themselves or the LGBTQ community in doing so. I would ask to speak with the head of year to explore this in more detail.
I suspect that that there may also be a little more to it that your son might be omitting, but then learning about and testing boundaries is part of being adolescent!
Re the first incident - if the option for 'straight' is not there he did the right thing. the majority of us are 'straight' as far as I know its an acceptable way of describing that option just as gay is acceptable for homsexuality.
Second one that would appear to be a perfectly normal question for a male teenager to ask.
i think meeting with the Head and their Head is required
Second one that would appear to be a perfectly normal question for a male teenager to ask.
i think meeting with the Head and their Head is required
Hi im gay and im truley shocked the school is even doing this, first of what the bloody hell has it got to do with the school if the pupils are gay straight or otherwise? Could you imagine that question on a job interview it would be bang out of order as his preference is for his knoweldge and his alone.
2nd thing is also bang out of order from the school, They are teaching be accepting of all and upon trying to find out more information on someone by asking them questions they pull him in for it? Double standards I think and one of the main reasons it leads to resentment and ill feelings to the lgbtq+ community if people are to scared to interact with us.
Get on to the head ASAP.
2nd thing is also bang out of order from the school, They are teaching be accepting of all and upon trying to find out more information on someone by asking them questions they pull him in for it? Double standards I think and one of the main reasons it leads to resentment and ill feelings to the lgbtq+ community if people are to scared to interact with us.
Get on to the head ASAP.
Without knowing exactly how that test was worded and the manner in which he asked the girl those questions it’s hard to say.
I remember my little cousin (I say little; she’s 18 now) telling us a few years ago about having to fill out a similar questionnaire and someone did what your son did because they misunderstood the ‘heterosexual’ option as ‘homosexual’.
On the other issue, if the girl is now blanking your son he might not have been asking those questions in such the innocent manner that you make out in your OP. Or maybe she’s been advised by HOY not to have any further interaction with your son. Or maybe she didn’t appreciate the questioning.
Maybe see if you can arrange a meeting with HOY to find out more.
I remember my little cousin (I say little; she’s 18 now) telling us a few years ago about having to fill out a similar questionnaire and someone did what your son did because they misunderstood the ‘heterosexual’ option as ‘homosexual’.
On the other issue, if the girl is now blanking your son he might not have been asking those questions in such the innocent manner that you make out in your OP. Or maybe she’s been advised by HOY not to have any further interaction with your son. Or maybe she didn’t appreciate the questioning.
Maybe see if you can arrange a meeting with HOY to find out more.
V8 Stang said:
I may be missing something here, but in the 1st scenario, what is the "correct" option to tick for "straight"
Or is that not allowed anymore?
Heterosexual would be my guess, as someone had mentioned done find offence of straight as it means others are bentOr is that not allowed anymore?
Ok the face of it it seems your lad has been hard done by. I think asking questions and learning is a positive and should be encouraged. Understanding can help with tolerance.
However like we had with the mayonnaise drive through phone incident, it may be that the side of the story you have has done adaptions
SlimJim16v said:
Surely there must've been an option for heterosexual? Otherwise I'd be fuming.
Depends on the purpose of the survey and how the questions were formatted. If it was designed to figure out which kids self identify as LGBT, for example, you don't need a 'heterosexual' box. To address another point - lots of companies *do* ask if you 'Identify as part of the LGBT community' as part of an application, and list options that don't include heterosexual.
When I was 13 what I was like at home and in school were quite different, and teenage boys say and do some pretty awful things for laughs and validation. The OPs son might not be homophobic, but that doesn't mean he isn't making homophobic comments or making a female bisexual student feel uncomfortable (particularly as teenage boys (and men to be honest) fetishise female same sex relationships).
How can the school ask a question about sexuality and not include an option for "straight"?
With the second story, if the questions were asked in a normal friendly chat, why would another pupil feel the need to report it? When it gets to teenage years being the school grass doesn't go down well.
I can't help but feel in both examples there is far more to the story than you're getting and passing on to us.
With the second story, if the questions were asked in a normal friendly chat, why would another pupil feel the need to report it? When it gets to teenage years being the school grass doesn't go down well.
I can't help but feel in both examples there is far more to the story than you're getting and passing on to us.
Edited by Driver101 on Monday 13th June 19:09
HOY and I are in contact.
She does seem very strict and not one to challenge. I know this from an exchange when she headed an assembly and laid down the law the moment they all sat down. 'Anyone speaking will get detention'. Someone in the row being my son's whispered, 'Watch, I'm going to get a detention'. HOY turned around and looked straight at my son and gave him a detention. He protested and she threatened him with IEC ( "Internal Exclusion Centre" ) at which point the guilty party stood up and confessed. He wass told he would be joining my son if he continued.
Now, I see this as part of learning and if my son gets into trouble he has to deal with it (and learn from that). However, on this particular occasion, I engaged the HOY in conversation over an email and she was adamant that it was my son talking, despite the confession and despite witnesses that tried putting their hand up to say it was mistaken identity. I know when my lad is lying or trying it on and he knows I can read his face. He's also honest with me and I do not believe he will fluff up such a story.
HOY - the next day - made a comment to my son about how he should tell his dad that he [me] is wrong. Of course, I went back to her and questioned why she would raise the subject again.
She might just have it it for my son, or she may well be a ruthless battleaxe. It does seem it's difficult to keep out of her range.
She does seem very strict and not one to challenge. I know this from an exchange when she headed an assembly and laid down the law the moment they all sat down. 'Anyone speaking will get detention'. Someone in the row being my son's whispered, 'Watch, I'm going to get a detention'. HOY turned around and looked straight at my son and gave him a detention. He protested and she threatened him with IEC ( "Internal Exclusion Centre" ) at which point the guilty party stood up and confessed. He wass told he would be joining my son if he continued.
Now, I see this as part of learning and if my son gets into trouble he has to deal with it (and learn from that). However, on this particular occasion, I engaged the HOY in conversation over an email and she was adamant that it was my son talking, despite the confession and despite witnesses that tried putting their hand up to say it was mistaken identity. I know when my lad is lying or trying it on and he knows I can read his face. He's also honest with me and I do not believe he will fluff up such a story.
HOY - the next day - made a comment to my son about how he should tell his dad that he [me] is wrong. Of course, I went back to her and questioned why she would raise the subject again.
She might just have it it for my son, or she may well be a ruthless battleaxe. It does seem it's difficult to keep out of her range.
Seems the first 'incident' now has him firmly labelled as some sort of homophobe by the idiot head of year and now has it in for him... which is a bit s
t and accounts for the overreaction to the second.
'Straight' is still the actual word as an option on every dating app as to preference. It is not offensive to the vast majority of people, and still in common day to day usage as meaning heterosexual.
What would their reaction have been if the box he wrote in said 'none of the above' 'don't know' 'all of the above' 'fluid' or 'asexual' ? What would they have done if he had refused to fill it in, because, you know, privacy, shyness, not sure, or the fact that it is really no-one else's damn business but his?
This is now teaching him that his perfectly normal and socially acceptable sexual preference and feelings are inferior to others, as is his ability to even voice that preference...some would call that discrimination, which is somewhat ironic here given the history of the community.
The second 'incident' question is quite funny and again, a perfectly normal question to ask...would have been even funnier if she had replied 'both'.
But someone else complained about something they heard - possibly only in part - and weren't involved in, and the other actual party to the conversation between two teenagers had no issue with it, yet he is being hauled over the coals? What exactly do they want in his written statement?
Seems the school is trying a little too hard to avoid any hint of anything that could be offensive to the alphabet mafia and then be twisted into a daily mail headline.
t and accounts for the overreaction to the second. 'Straight' is still the actual word as an option on every dating app as to preference. It is not offensive to the vast majority of people, and still in common day to day usage as meaning heterosexual.
What would their reaction have been if the box he wrote in said 'none of the above' 'don't know' 'all of the above' 'fluid' or 'asexual' ? What would they have done if he had refused to fill it in, because, you know, privacy, shyness, not sure, or the fact that it is really no-one else's damn business but his?
This is now teaching him that his perfectly normal and socially acceptable sexual preference and feelings are inferior to others, as is his ability to even voice that preference...some would call that discrimination, which is somewhat ironic here given the history of the community.
The second 'incident' question is quite funny and again, a perfectly normal question to ask...would have been even funnier if she had replied 'both'.
But someone else complained about something they heard - possibly only in part - and weren't involved in, and the other actual party to the conversation between two teenagers had no issue with it, yet he is being hauled over the coals? What exactly do they want in his written statement?
Seems the school is trying a little too hard to avoid any hint of anything that could be offensive to the alphabet mafia and then be twisted into a daily mail headline.
Edited by GCH on Monday 13th June 19:20
I would have been discussing this with the head when it first arose. once you had booth sides of the story either the questionnaire was wrong or your son did not understand.
Now this second event, is it because somehow your son now has a marker against him? Again I would be down at the school asking for an explanation as to what the offence is?
It feels at the moment that anyone who doesn't embrace the LGBTQ message and lifestyle is wrong, but that doesn't mean they are homophobic and for a school to allegedly suggest that seems wrong.
If your son is not telling the truth to you then I am sure you are better placed to deal with that than a school taking away the school trip as punishment
Now this second event, is it because somehow your son now has a marker against him? Again I would be down at the school asking for an explanation as to what the offence is?
It feels at the moment that anyone who doesn't embrace the LGBTQ message and lifestyle is wrong, but that doesn't mean they are homophobic and for a school to allegedly suggest that seems wrong.
If your son is not telling the truth to you then I am sure you are better placed to deal with that than a school taking away the school trip as punishment
Glassman said:
She might just have it it for my son, or she may well be a ruthless battleaxe. It does seem it's difficult to keep out of her range.
Maybe your son isn't as well behaved as you would like to think? If she's pulling up pupils for every misdemeanor she is going to be an incredibly busy HOY.
The HOY didn't instigate the action against your son. She's not got it in for him. She's having to deal with a complaint.
Edited by Driver101 on Monday 13th June 19:30
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