RE: Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.5-16 | Spotted
RE: Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.5-16 | Spotted
Sunday 19th June 2022

Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.5-16 | Spotted

A car made famous by Ayrton Senna and half the price of an E30 M3? Sign us up!


There’s practically zero chance of today’s Formula 1 drivers doing anything outside of the absolute top tier of motorsport. Yes, Fernando Alonso recently had a few stabs at the Indy 500 and he’s racked up a couple of wins at the 24 Hours of Le Mans, but could you imagine him having a go in stadium trucks between Grand Prix? Or Lewis Hamilton joining his brother Nicholas in the BTCC? How about Carlos Sainz Jr. doing a round of the WRC? 

To be fair to them, today’s F1 drivers do have a jam-packed calendar and (if you’re in a Mercedes) are subjected to lap after battering lap thanks to porpoising. But turn the clock back a few decades and drivers used to race pretty much anything they could get their mitts on. Perhaps the absolute pinnacle of this was a race in 1984 involving F1 drivers, the Nurburgring GP circuit and the Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.3-16.  

The idea behind the race was to show off the then-new Nurburgring GP track, which launched as a safer alternative to the Nordschleife. The grid included F1 legends such as a Niki Lauda, James Hunt, Alain Prost, and some new Brazilian guy called Ayrton Senna. They’d all be driving identical 190Es, which is probably the closest we’ve been to current F1 drivers all competing in the same car – could you imagine endless Twitter arguments if that happened today? 

Lauda started at the back of the grid, and despite racing against the young Alain Prost and Keke Rosberg, managed to work his way up to second place before coming across a roadblock in the shape of a beige 190E. It was Senna, who despite being the most inexperienced driver on the grid, held off the man who would go on to become that year’s F1 world champion. The race showed just how special Senna was – and cemented the Mercedes as an unlikely motorsport icon. 

This 190E isn’t one of the original cars used in ‘84; it's a later 1989 2.5 that did without the Cosworth heads. Power was increased by 22hp to 204hp (though catalytic converters apparently knocked off ten horses), and you get a bit more torque at 177lb ft. Debate continues to this day about whether the punchier 2.5 or the revvier 2.3 was the better 190E, but both remain great. Interestingly the final drive was increased to benefit the 2.5’s motorway manners, making the later 190E one of the early examples of what we’ve come to expect from German super saloons that you can use daily.  

Granted, the numbers are pretty puny compared to what we’ve become accustomed to, but the M3-chasing 190E was a vast upgrade over the standard model. The spring and damper rates were reworked for a sportier drive, and hydraulic self-levelling rear suspension was thrown in. Plus, on 2.5s like this one, Merc’s fancy Automatic Locking Differential (or ASD) was included as standard to help minimise understeer and boost traction. Sure, it won’t be advanced as what’s seen today, but back in the 1980s this was pretty hi-tech. It's all completed with a very fetching ‘80s bodykit. 

This one is silver, so isn’t exactly like Senna’s beige racer, but is arguably better for it. The 190E 2.5-16 is listed at £34,950 with 94,000 miles on the clock, though the seller states that it’s recently undergone a fair bit of restoration work – which is maybe why it looks so tidy. Whack a sticker set on it with the Senna name down the side and you’ve got yourself race car replica on the cheap. 


SPECIFICATION | MERCEDES-BENZ 190E 2.5-16  

Engine: 2,498cc four cylinder
Transmission: 5-speed dog-leg manual, rear-wheel drivePower (hp): 204@6,750rpmTorque (lb ft): 177@5,500rpmMPG: N/ACO2: N/AYear registered: 1989Recorded miles: 94,000 
Price new: N/A
Yours for: £34,950 

Author
Discussion

McRors

Original Poster:

467 posts

86 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
What a beautiful machine. Excellent value too given the restoration work. Not "fast" given today's machinery but sprightly enough. I don't understand why they're half the price of a comparable M3. I certainly not half the car.

Cambs_Stuart

3,539 posts

114 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
That looks fantastic. Really simple and effective design. The interior looks very inviting too. Good spot.
Didn't someone on the PH staff have one of these that was constantly being restored?

wpa1975

14,784 posts

144 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
Great value in todays market, not sure why anybody would put Senna stickers on it as they used 2.3 cars in a different colour.

Rob 131 Sport

4,931 posts

82 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
You really can’t go wrong with late 80’s early 90’s Mercedes. They were a class quality act and with a powerful engine absolutely wonderful.

esotericar

745 posts

57 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
Honestly, I'd rather have a 190E 2.6. Body kit on these is too 80s repmobile, and the thing is just dog slow. So, a creamy I6, a slusher and zero performance expectations seems like a better fit.

Sure, it's a novelty that a car like this actually has significant driver appeal. But, really, if you want something gutless that handles, there are surely much better value propositions that are also actually more fun to drive.

LordHaveMurci

12,338 posts

199 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
After driving my old bosses 2.3 a few times, I always wanted one of these.

About 25yrs ago I couldn’t quite stretch to the £12k they were going for & bought an S13 200SX for £8k which I hated!

Considering how nuts the market is, this does look like decent value.

Augustus Windsock

3,806 posts

185 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
I’m not 100% sure but didn’t Cosworth develop the heads for both engines, the engine codes were something like WAA for the 2.3 and WAB for the 2.5
Where the heads were cast is still a cause of discussion in some forums iirc
The 2.5 did have a double timing chain unlike the 2.3 as there had been some ‘issues’ with the single chain
When I was looking at one (half this price a couple of years ago) the parts situation was poor, some being ‘unobtainium’

anonymous-user

84 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
I drive past one of these everyday. However, it’s been sat in a farmers field, not moving for at least 10 years. Shame.



Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 19th June 10:04

s m

24,492 posts

233 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
Friend still has his one, bought when they were 5k. Very well built, been kept away from salty roads for last 15 years so it’s in great nick. Needs a boot full of revs to really shift but planted at the rear compared to the BMW/Ford rivals of the time

lordturns

84 posts

216 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
Yes please - will take one of these over a soulless, characterless washing machine that is an electric car

muchacho

278 posts

164 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
I am on my second of these. I can understand why they don’t get everyone’s pulses racing but once you get comfortable with one then they do get under your skin. This one would be good value I think if it as good as it appears. A lowish mileage 2.3-16 sold at Anglia Auctions last week for £33k.

jaykay42

101 posts

206 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
Cambs_Stuart said:
That looks fantastic. Really simple and effective design. The interior looks very inviting too. Good spot.
Didn't someone on the PH staff have one of these that was constantly being restored?
Mike Duff? I seem to recall?

cerb4.5lee

45,013 posts

210 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
It always fascinates me actually seeing a merc with a 3 pedal manual like this one, because I always associate Mercedes-Benz with an auto gearbox.

This seems like an absolute bargain in comparison to an E30 M3 I reckon.

BFleming

3,918 posts

173 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
I owned a 2.3-16 for a short while. I fixed some running issues (ICV related) and rebuilt the shifter mechanism with new MB parts. I loved it, but rust was its nemesis - it started from the floorpan & spread upwards. So I cut it loose for what I paid for it - £1100. No point in saying I wish I still had it, as it would just be an orange stain on the driveway at this stage.








Buster73

5,627 posts

183 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
Had a 190E back in the day , couldn’t afford the 2.5-16 at the time.

Great car , solid as a rock and nice to drive as well.

Arsecati

2,785 posts

147 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
esotericar said:
Honestly, I'd rather have a 190E 2.6. Body kit on these is too 80s repmobile, and the thing is just dog slow. So, a creamy I6, a slusher and zero performance expectations seems like a better fit.

Sure, it's a novelty that a car like this actually has significant driver appeal. But, really, if you want something gutless that handles, there are surely much better value propositions that are also actually more fun to drive.
Uhhh, because BMW M3's never battled auto 2.6's in DTM mate.

esotericar

745 posts

57 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
Arsecati said:
Uhhh, because BMW M3's never battled auto 2.6's in DTM mate.
Sorry, what's your point?

NGK210

5,082 posts

175 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
Love the 2.5-16 5-speeder’s shift-pattern – an old school racing-style dogleg.

GTRene

22,680 posts

254 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
never had a Merc yet, but there were times I thought about such 190e 2.5 Evo 1, also a Evo 2, which at some point was not so expensive, but I found them to 'much' not so fast and to much for the eye (big spoilers ala tupperware)
Ofcourse when they were 'cheap' you should bought a few, put then in some barn and then sell them over the last few years, were some go for around 250k or so? (crazy money)

I rather like the Evo 1, not so extreem but more a gentleman racer in a suit.... not that its such a racer in todays world, but still.

but... I always then choose for the E30 M3 of which I owned 5 over time in all different forms, from standard to swapped and e36 M3 engine and tuning and so on.

I could like and want say such Evo 1 with a fast AMG V6 or AMG V8, that would be a lovely combo, with at least 360+hp

GTRene

22,680 posts

254 months

Sunday 19th June 2022
quotequote all
ok, this is a bit to much power, but listen how fast that engine revs up, with turbo's, sounds almost like a race/bike engine.
so turn up the sound and listen the first part.

wonder what amg v8 that is and I guess those turbo's were added? so not a original amg twin-turbo? sounds cool though.