Minimum number of sensors to start an engine?
Discussion
I am currently toward the end of an engine swap in a Peugeot 106 Rallye, from 8V to 16V.
It is a race car and runs an MBE ecu, with custom air craft spec wiring loom. Generally this loom does fit the 16v engine, except for the TPS which is a completely different style of connector. I am getting this replaced tomorrow.
The engine does turn over and the injectors are firing ( wet plugs), its a different style of coil but still wasted spark and the connector from the old loom to new coil is the same.
All the other connectors that are available are in place and connected, however a few are missing as they are deemed not necessary to run an engine, e.g. oil level.
I am assuming that once the TPS is connected, I'll have all I need to start the engine? Or am I missing something? YOU can take it as read that it'll be difficult to start not least due to the wrong map in the ECU.
Does anyone have any pointers I need to look at to help solve the inevitable non start.
(I have checked that the coil/tps won't fry the ECU), which is why it's being wired up by a professional.
tia.
It is a race car and runs an MBE ecu, with custom air craft spec wiring loom. Generally this loom does fit the 16v engine, except for the TPS which is a completely different style of connector. I am getting this replaced tomorrow.
The engine does turn over and the injectors are firing ( wet plugs), its a different style of coil but still wasted spark and the connector from the old loom to new coil is the same.
All the other connectors that are available are in place and connected, however a few are missing as they are deemed not necessary to run an engine, e.g. oil level.
I am assuming that once the TPS is connected, I'll have all I need to start the engine? Or am I missing something? YOU can take it as read that it'll be difficult to start not least due to the wrong map in the ECU.
Does anyone have any pointers I need to look at to help solve the inevitable non start.
(I have checked that the coil/tps won't fry the ECU), which is why it's being wired up by a professional.
tia.
M4cruiser said:
Hello
Although I'm not familiar with that engine, my first thought is camshafts, and location of the cam sensor.
I feel the change from 8V to 16V may confuse the computer's inputs from crank and cam sensors?
Is it multi-point injection or single point?
it has one injector per cylinder so single point.Although I'm not familiar with that engine, my first thought is camshafts, and location of the cam sensor.
I feel the change from 8V to 16V may confuse the computer's inputs from crank and cam sensors?
Is it multi-point injection or single point?
Not sure it has cam sensors, just runs of the crank sensor (it's a mid 90's engine) Inputs are limited as not so much emissions.
Are you running a TU5J4/TU5JP4?
If so it needs the crank sensor for rotation (iirc front of the block, near the oil filter). No camshaft sensors on those engines.
If so it needs the crank sensor for rotation (iirc front of the block, near the oil filter). No camshaft sensors on those engines.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
it has one injector per cylinder so single point.
Not sure it has cam sensors, just runs of the crank sensor (it's a mid 90's engine) Inputs are limited as not so much emissions.
This is multi-point injection - SPI is where you almost have a carb at the top of the engine, then feed each cylinder from a single injector.Not sure it has cam sensors, just runs of the crank sensor (it's a mid 90's engine) Inputs are limited as not so much emissions.
If you have wet plugs and a spark I wouldn’t count on the TPS fixing the job.
Sounds like over fuelling, have you plugged into the ecu and checked it’s seeing engine temp?
For an aftermarket setup you would typically need at least rpm, throttle and engine temp to make it run but intake temp and a second load measurement (MAF or more often MAP) are also often used.
Is the map in the ecu set up for a similar engine?
Sounds like over fuelling, have you plugged into the ecu and checked it’s seeing engine temp?
For an aftermarket setup you would typically need at least rpm, throttle and engine temp to make it run but intake temp and a second load measurement (MAF or more often MAP) are also often used.
Is the map in the ecu set up for a similar engine?
Steve H said:
If you have wet plugs and a spark I wouldn’t count on the TPS fixing the job.
Sounds like over fuelling, have you plugged into the ecu and checked it’s seeing engine temp?
For an aftermarket setup you would typically need at least rpm, throttle and engine temp to make it run but intake temp and a second load measurement (MAF or more often MAP) are also often used.
Is the map in the ecu set up for a similar engine?
It is almost certainly over fueling, the map on it is for an 8v with large injectors so I expect the standard ones are pushing out too much fuel. I have all the other sensors but it sounds like I should disconnect the fuel pump and chuck some east start down it and that might work?Sounds like over fuelling, have you plugged into the ecu and checked it’s seeing engine temp?
For an aftermarket setup you would typically need at least rpm, throttle and engine temp to make it run but intake temp and a second load measurement (MAF or more often MAP) are also often used.
Is the map in the ecu set up for a similar engine?
Steve H said:
Or because you haven’t got sensors connected. ……
Are you able to connect to the ecu with MBE software?
No unfortunately. I have downloaded some trouble shooting guides specifically for the MBE ecu that focus on battery voltage, spark, and crank sensors. My main concern is whether I can get any spark and there is a process to determine thatAre you able to connect to the ecu with MBE software?
https://www.sbdmotorsport.co.uk/wp/wp/pdf/Helpful_...
I'd like to try to get to the point that I know that everything works so that the mapper just has to map and not fault diagnose. I don't want to be told that the coil is knackered whilst spending £100 ph.
There a company called odified that can repair ecu's if the drivers for the coil are knackered. However as it is basically the same system I am swapping into, I hope that is not the case.
Finally, I have realised that the throttle body rotates the other way to the previous one, that means that the look up table for throttle position is 'upside down' so that might completely stop any chance of getting it started. But so long as the coil/injectors work I can live with that.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
No unfortunately. I have downloaded some trouble shooting guides specifically for the MBE ecu that focus on battery voltage, spark, and crank sensors. My main concern is whether I can get any spark and there is a process to determine that
https://www.sbdmotorsport.co.uk/wp/wp/pdf/Helpful_...
I'd like to try to get to the point that I know that everything works so that the mapper just has to map and not fault diagnose. I don't want to be told that the coil is knackered whilst spending £100 ph.
There a company called odified that can repair ecu's if the drivers for the coil are knackered. However as it is basically the same system I am swapping into, I hope that is not the case.
Finally, I have realised that the throttle body rotates the other way to the previous one, that means that the look up table for throttle position is 'upside down' so that might completely stop any chance of getting it started. But so long as the coil/injectors work I can live with that.
The TPS will most likely have three wires, an earth, 5v feed and signal. If you were to swap the 5v and earth round you will most probably invert the signal which may be useful?https://www.sbdmotorsport.co.uk/wp/wp/pdf/Helpful_...
I'd like to try to get to the point that I know that everything works so that the mapper just has to map and not fault diagnose. I don't want to be told that the coil is knackered whilst spending £100 ph.
There a company called odified that can repair ecu's if the drivers for the coil are knackered. However as it is basically the same system I am swapping into, I hope that is not the case.
Finally, I have realised that the throttle body rotates the other way to the previous one, that means that the look up table for throttle position is 'upside down' so that might completely stop any chance of getting it started. But so long as the coil/injectors work I can live with that.
Have you checked if there is a spark while cranking? I’d assumed you had already confirmed this but may have missed something.
In any case getting the SW and appropriate lead to talk to the ECU will be completely invaluable so I would suggest that’s where you need to go first.
Steve H said:
The TPS will most likely have three wires, an earth, 5v feed and signal. If you were to swap the 5v and earth round you will most probably invert the signal which may be useful?
Have you checked if there is a spark while cranking? I’d assumed you had already confirmed this but may have missed something.
In any case getting the SW and appropriate lead to talk to the ECU will be completely invaluable so I would suggest that’s where you need to go first.
See earlier post. It runs! (Like a bag of sHave you checked if there is a spark while cranking? I’d assumed you had already confirmed this but may have missed something.
In any case getting the SW and appropriate lead to talk to the ECU will be completely invaluable so I would suggest that’s where you need to go first.
te)Gassing Station | Home Mechanics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff